tire recommendation (1 Viewer)

[TeCKis300]

^Thanks for taking the time with a great write-up. Can't say I'm not disappointed as I had high hopes for that tire.

It usually takes a couple hundreds miles to scrub in a tire before its true character is known. From those pics, it looks well scrubbed in, and actually surprised at the level of rubber chipping and wear in only 500 miles?

I'm particularly surprised at the sidewall lugs. They photograph pretty aggressively in studio lighting. But man, your right, Barely an emboss and almost seems like they made gradiations in the rubber texture just to create shadows that make it seem like the lugs are much more aggressive. Perhaps they save at least a couple lbs in rubber weight by doing that.

I'm hoping for the sake of the AT IIIs that they're having ramp up production issues, perhaps compound issues. Much like some isolated batches of early BFGs with cracking issues, and Ridge Grapplers with tread splitting issues.

What tires did you move on to? Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT? Good chance to review, to compare and contrast whatever new tire you get.

 

[EPUro2019]

I'm in the market for new shoes. Every time I think I know what I'm going to get I read something that changes my mind. I bounce around between KO2, Ridge Grappler, plus all that cooper and others have to offer. bottom line, I still have no idea.

 

[Moby]

Appreciate the write up, this is enough to cross these off my list. Always had great service at DT as well.

 

[grinchy]

I'm in the market for new shoes. Every time I think I know what I'm going to get I read something that changes my mind. I bounce around between KO2, Ridge Grappler, plus all that cooper and others have to offer. bottom line, I still have no idea.

Thanks for the review. Your desire to keep weight down is something we share. Crazy to get stone drilling like that, but I don’t see any ejectors on those tires, if you saw others flatting in the area maybe just a particular new or sharp gravel? It is hard to judge with an anecdotal reports.
There aren’t too many tires that are hardened for off road use and light. The extra protection plies and tread costs weight. Falken and cooper both in different ways try to strengthen sidewall, but going right through the tread plies is crazy.
maybe look at the wildpeak? It’s not a new compound, but they are proven and competitive priced. 3pmsf and reputed to do well in wet and snow.

 

[TLCLVR]

Grinchy, I agree on all points! I opted away from the Wildpeaks because they are so damn heavy. Gotta compromise somewhere for the extra toughness I guess. Lightweight didn’t work for me, so went for a middle ground in the Ridge Grapplers.

 

[edwardg]

That’s really interesting about the Toyos. I just put a set of them on the new summer wheels. Previously ran the AT II and they were fine.

The sidewalls on mine have seem to have more meat than yours. Some folks on a Tundra forum running these said one side of the tire was more “aggressive” than the other. Both looked pretty similar on mine. Not at home right now so can’t post pics of both sides.

Will post more impressions after I put some miles on them. They’re 35x12.5R18 D rated.

 

[BAY2MTN]

Yes, the Toyo Open Country ATIII has "dual sidewall" design.

Maybe the installer mounted them with the less aggressive one facing out, @TLCLVR ...

I like the low weight, and reputation. I have high hopes for these but will hold off until it's time to go back outside

 

[Armed in Utah]

no luv for the Goodyear Wrangler Ultra Terrain ?

these are LT 265-70x17's for my 11 GX 460

79# as shown

 

[Angelo1]

Yes, the Toyo Open Country ATIII has "dual sidewall" design.

Maybe the installer mounted them with the less aggressive one facing out, @TLCLVR ...

I like the low weight, and reputation. I have high hopes for these but will hold off until it's time to go back outside

I have been told to have the more aggressive sidewall tread on the inside of tire. It just doesn’t look as “cool” having the least aggressive side facing out.

 

[paulunm]

At least with the AT2, the date codes are supposed to be facing out, which I believe is the more aggressive sidewall design.

 

[PDoyle]

I'm in the market for new shoes. Every time I think I know what I'm going to get I read something that changes my mind. I bounce around between KO2, Ridge Grappler, plus all that cooper and others have to offer. bottom line, I still have no idea.

Did you buy tires yet? If so which ones. I'm in that same boat. I'm looking at Falken 305 20's but this thread makes me question my decision. I need good road and snow manners.

 

[TeCKis300]

That’s really interesting about the Toyos. I just put a set of them on the new summer wheels. Previously ran the AT II and they were fine.

The sidewalls on mine have seem to have more meat than yours. Some folks on a Tundra forum running these said one side of the tire was more “aggressive” than the other. Both looked pretty similar on mine. Not at home right now so can’t post pics of both sides.

Will post more impressions after I put some miles on them. They’re 35x12.5R18 D rated.View attachment 2285624

How are these AT3s working out for you? Particularly interested in highway noise and comfort? I know the AT2s were somewhat loud, but they were also designed almost a decade ago now.

In regards to the side tread profile, looks like they differ between flotation sizes, LT, and P-metric. With flotation getting the most aggressive side tread.

 

[edwardg]

How are these AT3s working out for you? Particularly interested in highway noise and comfort? I know the AT2s were somewhat loud, but they were also designed almost a decade ago now.

In regards to the side tread profile, looks like they differ between flotation sizes, LT, and P-metric. With flotation getting the most aggressive side tread.

I've only put a thousand or so miles on them, so these are still initial observations...

I'd call the AT2's highway noise roughly "average" and the AT3 are noticeably quieter, at least in this first thousand miles. Can't give a dB rating, as the exhaust is still louder. Comfort is also good, maybe a touch better on the AT3, although my AT3s are D-rated 18" vs E-rated 20".

Offroad traction is good. It's no MT but I have been happy with it aired down to 20psi in the wet ORV areas here in the Seattle area. Haven't experienced any of the checking or chunking that the other reviewer noted, and no flats despite some pretty aggressive off-tarmac driving.

No chance for snow use, but I was never pleased with the AT2's snow performance. We're in the mountains a ton in the winter, so I started running the Hakkapeliitta LT3 (which are *fantastic*).

I'm generally of the opinion that unless a tire is crap, most people are generally happy with what they buy assuming their base assumptions about the class of tire are reasonable.

 

[RT Cruiser]

Aren't tire threads just a joy to read?

I had Discount Tire install Yokohama Geolander A/T G015 a few months ago to replace the Cooper Discoverer HT Plus tires that came with it when we bought it. The Discoverers failed miserably in the rain and snow, spongy over bumps and rocks, but very quiet.

The Geolander is a good-to-great all-around tire. They've performed well in the snow and rain. Very secure on dirt roads. Mud? Well, let's just say it's good to have the differential locked beforehand. We took it over a lot of 4x4 roads near Ouray/Lake City two weeks ago. They were exceptional considering they are not a true 4x4 tire. It would've been my preference to have KO2s or something similar on those trails, but our driving with the rig is 95% highway and 5% off-road.

They shine on the highway. No noise. We're getting 20-22mpg on the highway.

Fwiw, the Discount Tire in my area (Littleton/Englewood 300 W Hampden Ave, 80110) has several times gone the extra mile for us.

 

[TeCKis300]

Thanks @edwardg for sharing your thoughts. The character of the AT3s are starting to become more clear as there's more commentary. It's a compelling tire and I'm strongly considering them for my next set. I'm pretty critical of tires, and while they all excel at different things, strong NVH qualities and solid performance all around without any significant gaps are my priorities.

Separately...

I found some nuggets of gold from Joe Bacal that was a development tester for the AT3s. He was able to critically bench them among the competitive set including KO2s and AT3Ws, so I read his thoughts with high accord. He notes the Falkens "did amazing in almost all categories", "outperforming the AT3 in more categories". For a Toyo hired engineer to say that is strong praise. Yet I'm still strongly considering the AT3s as they are incrementally quieter on the highway with great snow performance for ski trips. I'm watching this resource closely for any new commentary.

Interestingly, he was on the Toyota FJ development team and campaigned the 200-series in several off-road races including Baja. Took OE tires through the Baja 1000 several times?! Do I need more tire than this man??

From that data, along with others, this is my interpretation for various traits where I have in info. I'm only capturing my own research here to inform my purchase so take this with a grain of salt.

1) Dry handling - Equal AT3 and AT3W, KO2
2) Steering Feel - AT3W, AT3, KO2
3) Ride comfort - AT3W, AT3, KO2
4) Noise - AT3, AT3W, KO2
5) Snow - AT3, AT3W, KO2
6) Wet - Equal AT3 and AT3W, KO2
7) Wet rock - AT3, AT3W, KO2
8) Wet marsh - AT3W, AT3

 

[PDoyle]

I've only put a thousand or so miles on them, so these are still initial observations...

I'd call the AT2's highway noise roughly "average" and the AT3 are noticeably quieter, at least in this first thousand miles. Can't give a dB rating, as the exhaust is still louder. Comfort is also good, maybe a touch better on the AT3, although my AT3s are D-rated 18" vs E-rated 20".

Offroad traction is good. It's no MT but I have been happy with it aired down to 20psi in the wet ORV areas here in the Seattle area. Haven't experienced any of the checking or chunking that the other reviewer noted, and no flats despite some pretty aggressive off-tarmac driving.

No chance for snow use, but I was never pleased with the AT2's snow performance. We're in the mountains a ton in the winter, so I started running the Hakkapeliitta LT3 (which are *fantastic*).

I'm generally of the opinion that unless a tire is crap, most people are generally happy with what they buy assuming their base assumptions about the class of tire are reasonable.

Did you have the chance to run them in the snow?

 

[edwardg]

Did you have the chance to run them in the snow?

No chance for snow use, but I was never pleased with the AT2's snow performance. We're in the mountains a ton in the winter, so I started running the Hakkapeliitta LT3 (which are *fantastic*).

Negative. I will probably give them a try when the white stuff returns just to see, though I really dislike the snow in this truck (without the hakkas). Feels like it moves a lot when it breaks traction and heads sideways. I'm probably just not froggy enough for snow wheeling.

 

[PDoyle]

Thanks. Guess the AT3's are moving up on my new tire list.

 

[BAY2MTN]

Thanks @edwardg for sharing your thoughts. The character of the AT3s are starting to become more clear as there's more commentary. It's a compelling tire and I'm strongly considering them for my next set. I'm pretty critical of tires, and while they all excel at different things, strong NVH qualities and solid performance all around without any significant gaps are my priorities.

Separately...

I found some nuggets of gold from Joe Bacal that was a development tester for the AT3s. He was able to critically bench them among the competitive set including KO2s and AT3Ws, so I read his thoughts with high accord. He notes the Falkens "did amazing in almost all categories", "outperforming the AT3 in more categories". For a Toyo hired engineer to say that is strong praise. Yet I'm still strongly considering the AT3s as they are incrementally quieter on the highway with great snow performance for ski trips. I'm watching this resource closely for any new commentary.

Interestingly, he was on the Toyota FJ development team and campaigned the 200-series in several off-road races including Baja. Took OE tires through the Baja 1000 several times?! Do I need more tire than this man??

From that data, along with others, this is my interpretation for various traits where I have in info. I'm only capturing my own research here to inform my purchase so take this with a grain of salt.

1) Dry handling - Equal AT3 and AT3W, KO2
2) Steering Feel - AT3W, AT3, KO2
3) Ride comfort - AT3W, AT3, KO2
4) Noise - AT3, AT3W, KO2
5) Snow - AT3, AT3W, KO2
6) Wet - Equal AT3 and AT3W, KO2
7) Wet rock - AT3, AT3W, KO2
8) Wet marsh - AT3W, AT3

Also the Toyo AT3 is a lighter weight tire, iirc. Not important to everyone, but I appreciate it after a noticeably heavy tire (Kumho).

 

[kevin2i]

Thanks for the review, disappointing to hear about the AT3 underperforming. One review, but a good example of what to expect on gravel and snow. Sad to hear about the ‘free trial’ hassle.

How are the Ridge Grapplers? Nitto is a Toyo company curious if Nitto proves to be superior.

Replacing my Michelin LTX Defenders LT265/70/18 on my 100 soon. AT3’s were at the top of my list, but no longer.

The Michelins have performed very well (over 100k) mostly interstate miles. 1 puncture, 1 sidewall tear. Will be doing more fire roads (TN/NC) moving forward. Went with LT tires after 2 sidewall issues on BFG Rugged Terrains (warrantied) in the first 6k. Definitely slows down the 4.7L, and with more mountain driving in the future looking for a lighter tire. Want to move back to a non LT tire - will check out the Continentals.
The Defenders are actually an excellent all around tire, run fine on sand and gravel, smooth/quiet on the interstate. Just look boring and no sidewall protection. I will take a look at the Continentals -
— Kevin

Well, I tried the Toyo Open Country ATIIIs for two weeks and ended up returning them. Tires were 275/65R18 E and intended to be a daily driver with very good weekend trail capability. I put them through the paces and here are my observations and why I didn't like them. This is a lengthy review and just a single data point, so take it for what it's worth.

I'd been debating between these and the Cooper Discoverer AT3 XLT, but decided to try these first because of Toyo's 45-day/500 guarantee. It was attractive because, unlike other brands, they offer a full refund, including install costs, and didn't require you to swap into another Toyo. I scanned the fine print and felt confident in taking a risk on a new, unproven tire.

Performance. IMHO the marketing is mostly hype. First thing that struck me was that the much-vaunted, more aggressive sidewall tread is nothing more than decoration. It's literally printed on the tire and not more than 1/16" relief. The pics online make it look much more aggressive and pronounced than it is. The tires are pretty true to size and measured 31 5/8" x 10 7/8" on 8" wide rims. Tread width is about 9". The tire weighs 51.6 lbs and 82.1 lbs total on OE Tundra alloys. One of the things that attracted me about this tire is its light weight. Since this was to be my DD I wanted to keep the weight and diameter in check (while still switching to E-rated) to maintain my stopping, acceleration, and gear ratios as much as possible.

I was initially pleased with the tires. Dry road performance was good. They, of course, felt stiffer than stock, but not so much that my family noticed much. There was a barely noticeable increase in road-noise, though the noise they make is a bit of a high pitched buzz. I measured them at 66-67 dB at 80mph. They weren't as loud as my BFG KO2's, but louder than the milder Continental TerrainContact AT (which were silent). Off-road at Little Moab, UT the Toyo ATIIIs performed better than the Conti's, though not an apples to apples comparison as the wheel size and tire type are different (Conti's were P275/60R20). I was able to climb a solid rock face obstacle in low range Rock mode that I could not with the Conti's, though with some definite spinning. The extra sidewall and stiffness were also a big plus.
View attachment 2284876
Shortly thereafter we got a good snow in the mountains, so I took them up to test in the empty ski resort parking lots. This is where the disappointment started. Toyo touted the improved rain (didn't test) and snow performance of this tire, and they are 3PMSF, but I thought them mediocre at best. They gripped acceptably on packed snow at 32 degrees, and they stopped just ok. Definitely not skates, and definitely not snow tires. In 6" deep snow, I bogged almost to a complete stop with traction control engaged in 4H. There was enough slip that the computer almost completely disengaged power to all four wheels. With Active TRAC disengaged I was able to keep forward momentum with lots of throttle, but I didn't have a lot of control and didn't corner well. Even in 4L Sand mode the tires struggled in deep snow. With Crawl Control engaged it plowed through ok, but when I tried to use Turn Assist I got a few feet then just stopped and slowly spun all four wheels in-place.
View attachment 2284877
The next test was a trip out to the Deep Creek Mountains in western Utah. Family of five, a dog, and all our camping gear--full load. A good 2 hours of the 3-hour trip was on dirt, gravel, and washboard roads through the Utah desert. I aired down 10, then 15% on the gravel, and the tires gave me a sense of confidence on the drive in. I also got a chance to do some rougher tracks in the mountains and around the old mines. I was generally very satisfied with the off-road traction until we hit some snow patches on a narrow high mountain track with slight sidegrade. To be honest, it scared me. The temps were in the 40s and the snow was the grainy spring stuff about 4-6" deep. The first 20' section of snow only covered 3/4 of the track, so my right tires were on dirt and I still started to slide sideways off the mountain. I backed out and tried again with more momentum. Made it through but the pucker factor was high. The second patch we hit covered the entire track. I started in, but it was clear after 10' that it was a no-go. End of the road.

Though the mountain snow thing was disappointing, I didn't intend to use these as winter tires and that was not high on my list of performance requirements, so not a deal-breaker. However, on the drive home on those gravel roads, I experienced the first flat in the four years I've owned the LX (and really the 18 years I've owned Land Cruisers). Having harshly judged the several mini-vans and cars we saw on the way in dealing with flats (and clearly running P-rated tires), I was pretty raw. Fluke? Maybe. Karma? Perhaps. Surprisingly, the rock punctured through the side of a tread block and tore a 1/2" hole on the inside of the tire. Taken alone this might be explained as one-off bad luck, but after we got home I inspected all the tires and found the treads torn to hell--lots of micro tears in the tread blocks and tire face, chunking, etc. One of the managers at the tire store said some of it looked like torque shear tears. That shouldn't have happened with the type of off-roading we did or traveling 50 mph on 15% aired down, brand new, E-rated tires on a maintained gravel road. The P-rated TerrainContact I threw on as a spare was nowhere near as cut up after another 2 hours on that same gravel, though it did pick up a lot of gravel in the treads. I can't compare the Toyo's to the KO2 off-road because it's been two years, and I rode the KO2s on the East Coast (totally different conditions). However, it did notice that the ATIII hardly threw any gravel into the wheel wells, while my KO2s sounded like hail on gravel roads.
View attachment 2284878View attachment 2284879View attachment 2284881

So, the AT IIIs went back to Discount Tire. This is where things go from bad to worse. The replacement insurance I bought covered the punctured and irreparable tire. But the other three... turns out Toyo's guarantee is a joke. Toyo refused to honor the satisfaction warranty because the tires were 'plus size' for my vehicle and not OEM. Who buys OEM sized off-road tires?? How about all the 34"+ size tires they sell? Not a non-commercial vehicle in the world I can think of that has OEM 34"+ tires! They also questioned my decision to air down 15% on gravel roads. Seriously?? Overall my experience with Toyo's customer service was very negative. Discount Tire tried to engage with them as well and also had a bad experience--so much so that they just ate the return and swore never to sell Toyo's again. Fortunately, DT took excellent care of me despite the condition of the tires. Can't say enough good things about those guys. Toyo on the other hand... epic fail. And as a footnote, 500 miles isn't really enough to get a good feel for tires.