Thoughts on raising TLCA dues??? (1 Viewer)

[woooody]

send an inquiry to membership@tlca.org and get an info packet which includes a Trails Mag. Or PM me your address and I'll mail you one myselsf.

 

[General Sherman]

Dues?

I currently would not support an increase in dues. However i must admit i have not yet reviewed the P&L, budget or any TLCA financial documents. I have requested them and am sure they are coming.

To the question at hand. The solution must come from one of two ways.
1st Cut/control costs
and/or
2nd Increase in revenue.

Not to try to over simplify this but it seems silly to me to try to "increase revenue" by increasing dues when at the same time we are dropping memberships. I own my own business and i would not increase the consumer cost on an item that sales were flat on to begin with. I would try to increase the value of that item to the eye's of the cunsumer. If that doesn't work, I find something new that will.

So from that perspective, i would support cost cutting efforts at least until we are out of the red. Again, not trying to over simplify but, don't spend money you don't have. If your mortgage isn't paid your not going to buy that ARB you've always wanted.

That said i look forward to reviewing any and all finantial documents i am provided with to change my mind.

Until then, i reiterate, i would not support a raise in dues. Instead i would support six pages of posts on ideas to raise revenue. Or how about post the question If we have to cut costs, where do we start(ie: Trails, BRC, etc.)

Thanks for bearing with me while i rant.

God Bless
Neil

 

[Land Schmoozer]

Neil and anyone else...

I'll be glad to send you a P&L and the 2005 budget. If you would like a set, send an e-mail to cmcampbell54@hotmail.com.

thanks!

 

[65swb45]

Well, I've been away from the computer for the last two weeks while I was on a fantastic road trip across America, visiting with cruiserheads from Illinois west. This thread has made a lot of progress in the meantime, and I feel a lot more comfortable with adding my thoughts to the mix now.

I'd like to start off with a simple thought on budgeting in general: how you do anything is how you do everything. I think a lot of the views shared reflect how we would handle our own financial dilemmas. Most people faced with increasing costs do not have the viable option of just asking their boss for more money. Most have to take a long hard look at their expenses and re-evaluate their priorities. Living within your means is something those of us without credit cards know very well. So I can understand those who would just say that we have to find a way to re-evaluate our expenses to avoid an increase in dues.

But if you had the freedom to ask for more money, and felt you were worth it, wouldn't you?

I think Ian makes a valid point about the Cal 4 wheel rag, and how little it costs to print. I think Ross Woody makes an equally valid one regarding the coveting of said rag. The TT is our crown jewel, and it costs a lot of money to print. Fact.

IMO, if you disagree with the quality or the necessity of TT to be in the form that it is now, it is a surregate argument for something else you are not happy about with TLCA. Opinion.

I think that in order to decide if you are really happy with TLCA, you need to decide whether TLCA is, and should remain, primarily a car club, or whether you think TLCA should be primarily an advocacy group like Cal 4 Wheel.

I agree with Ian's summary that Cal4Wheel's In Gear has a lot of focus on land use. I also agree with Mark Watkins that TLCA does not do a lot for advocacy groups compared to other organizations out there. This has not historically been TLCA's strong point. But I think that is because TLCA is NOT primarily an advocacy group, and that description does not fit us well.

Those of us who want to support advocacy groups have plenty of outlets with BRC, FOTR, FOPV,United, Cal4Wheel, USAA, Tread Lightly, etc. Those of us who want to support an non-profit, event-based organization devoted to the heritage of the Toyota Landcruiser have only one: TLCA. IMO, trying to change TLCA into another advocacy group will cause even more members to leave than a dues increase. That does not mean that we cannot continue to provide financial support to those organization, or retain the bragging rights to any direct participation our members choose to provide. But it is another thing to redirect the main focus of what built this organization.

In summary, it is my opinion that yes, we could charge a lot less for dues if we printed a newsletter and donated most of our funds to land use advocacy. But it wouldn't be a relevant TLCA any more.

The more I think about it, the more I think we should just do it like Pasqual said: one big increase so we won't have to deal with this again for a while. Get rid of the fence sitters. Offer rebates for attending events. Re-evaluate in 5 years. That's my 5 year plan!

Thanks for reading.


Mark A.

 

[fj40charles]

I think it would be very foolish to cut back on supporting organizations that help to keep our
public lands available to us.

If it were up to me, I'd raise the dues to $50.00 per/year.... If it is too expensive, then don't renew your membership. I would rather have fewer members that are active in TLCA and events, than thousands of members that don't do anything. Why are we so concerned about increasing our membership?

I can't believe people are complaining about a few dollars. LC owners are almost as cheap as the VW TDI owners.

I guess a good analogy would be a fraternity.. Do you want a bunch of members so you can claim to have a huge chapter or would you rather have a smaller chaper of dedicated members? It is the 20% that do 80% of the work.

 

[General Sherman]

I think it would be very foolish to cut back on supporting organizations that help to keep our
public lands available to us.

If it were up to me, I'd raise the dues to $50.00 per/year.... If it is too expensive, then don't renew your membership. I would rather have fewer members that are active in TLCA and events, than thousands of members that don't do anything. Why are we so concerned about increasing our membership?

We are concearned about increasing membrship for many reasons. Formost seems to be to keeping the same level of benifits to the members. At $ 50 we will decrease membership wich would just mean another increase in dues or a decrease in benifit.
The biggest revenue base the club has is membership dues. The next is Trails Advertising. Do you think advertisers will spend more or less as membership keeps droping?

I can't believe people are complaining about a few dollars. LC owners are almost as cheap as the VW TDI owners.

It isn't a few dollars or about being cheap. Its about how we spend the money we have and what the club looks like in the future. blindly spending $50 dollars for membership into a car club is as silly as comparing us to Volkswagon owners.
Somebody flame him

 

[fj40charles]

It isn't a few dollars or about being cheap. Its about how we spend the money we have and what the club looks like in the future. blindly spending $50 dollars for membership into a car club is as silly as comparing us to Volkswagon owners.
Somebody flame him

I own a VW TDI so I can vouch for their extreme cheapness... They have these guys on www.tdiclub.com bragging about getting 800 miles with a tank of diesel.... They go 60 mph and don't use their AC.... Not an option in Texas and in a big city.

Good point about looking at costs and how to control them...

 

[Rzeppa]

I think it would be very foolish to cut back on supporting organizations that help to keep our
public lands available to us.

Charles, you make some good points, but in this reply I will address only one of them. Instead of ONLY throwing money at land use issues, we at Rising Sun believe rolling up our sleeves and getting out there where the rubber leaves the pavement is worth even more. Sure, we donate between six and eight thousand dollars each year from Cruise Moab proceeds to national land use organizations such as BRC, UFWDA and others, but getting out there and doing the work may be even more leveraged. IOW, land use may be most effective at the local level than with an international organization like TLCA.

Here's what we'll be doing this weekend.

 

[JasonH]

That's cool that you have that option. I would love to be able to go out and help like that. The problem for us is, there are no public lands in Texas. So our only way to help with public land use issues is to donate.

 

[wardfoto]

That's cool that you have that option. I would love to be able to go out and help like that. The problem for us is, there are no public lands in Texas. So our only way to help with public land use issues is to donate.

and this is why we donate. to travel to places that have public land use, and take full advantage of the chance to use these public lands. we have to pay to wheel here. period. stop donating to land use, and you will find yourself following in our footsteps.

 

[Rzeppa]

As I have written in years past, different geographic areas have different land use situations. Some areas have little public land and must use private land. Others have a great deal of public land. Some people have more money than others, and some people have more time than others.

I do not feel it is any more fair for TLCA to force every member to contribute equally, and involuntarily to land use funding than it is for our government to make all taxpayers pay for this program or that program, which have different effects on different taxpayers.

TLCA should encourage and help facilitate programs to keep public land open for public use. The level of funding should be determined locally, and be voluntary, rather than forced on each and every member, regardless of their ability to afford it. Perhaps a way to to this would be to encourage earmarked contributions on the TLCA membership applications. These funds would be specifically for BRC, or U4WDA, for example, and not go into TLCA's general fund.

 

[wardfoto]

As I have written in years past, different geographic areas have different land use situations. Some areas have little public land and must use private land. Others have a great deal of public land. Some people have more money than others, and some people have more time than others.

I do not feel it is any more fair for TLCA to force every member to contribute equally, and involuntarily to land use funding than it is for our government to make all taxpayers pay for this program or that program, which have different effects on different taxpayers.

TLCA should encourage and help facilitate programs to keep public land open for public use. The level of funding should be determined locally, and be voluntary, rather than forced on each and every member, regardless of their ability to afford it. Perhaps a way to to this would be to encourage earmarked contributions on the TLCA membership applications. These funds would be specifically for BRC, or U4WDA, for example, and not go into TLCA's general fund.

i don't think anybody suggested forcing everybody to to be members of those organizations,. but if we do raise dues, then i don't see the problem with earmarking a percentage to go towards doing exactly what you suggest at the start of your post. by paying more in, we are helping to facilitate all those things you mention, and more.
-justin

 

[Chef]

Man, I sure am sorry for your bad experience. This is sure not typical behaviour for most chapter meetings I've been to. Please contact membership@tlca.org for a list of members in your area, chapters in your area, and a free copy of Toyota Trails. Tell Jenn Chef sent you...the 800 phone number is on the bottom of every page here if that's better for you.

thanks, alan

I currently am not a member but have owned Toyota's since the late 80's, Everything from the mini to my current 73 FJ40 and had no idea that there was a mag included with the membership, I have never seen a TT magazine anywhere so I have been subscribing to 4 Wheel Off Road . I am not sure if these 2 are comparable or not since I've not seen a TT but if it relates more to the toyota, has alot of tech tips as well as discounts I believe I would pony up. I recently sold my street rod and had been a member of the local club and the dues were 45 bux a year and all that got you was a free ticket to the local car show, you had to attend at least 4 meetings a year to remain a member. It sounds like to me that exposure is the biggest problem. I have spoken with a local TLCA member here a couple of years ago and even went to a meeting but the guys weren't very friendly, After introducing myself to a few of them I sat in the back of the meeting place and eventually left. This could be a one time thing or not. In closing, had I known of any and all of the benefits that were offered by being a member, I probably would have signed up a few years ago. I do not know what it would cost but, maybe if someone wants to join, send them a free magazine to let them know what it's about, along with the benefits locally such as discounts, etc. I know of a couple of shops here locally that I would not mind hitting them up for discounts for club members. One more thing I forgot to mention but, I thought was a great idea. The street rod club I belonged to would pick a car that needed work done to it such as brakes or whatever it was, and the members would get together and help fix the car. The owner would pay for parts of course but it kept alot of interest in the club and taught the other members how to do the repair, modification etc......
Sorry for the long post but thought it would be helpful....
Kevin

 

[Chef]

Jeff and Justin;
Two points here:
1) the level of dues increase we're talking about here is merely enough to fund TT back to the 72 page more color level, and keep our professional services funded, no more. It should leave us enough bank to still make larger and intermitent donations for BRC or others, as we did last year.
2) JZ: a check box on the membership app (like your taxes for campaign contributions, ick!) for "contribute $1 to TLCA's Land Use Fund might be something fun to try!

thx, alan

 

[45Kevin]

I don't know what portion of the membership is outside of the States, but I would be careful about earmarking too much to US land use orgs. Our club discussed this at our last meeting and the $2 that goes to Blue Ribbon was mentioned and got mixed revues. We already send about $30 per member of our dues to local land use orgs. To reiterate a previous post, our biggest benift of membership is the Trails and insurance, although we have 6 or 7 members that have been to TLCA events in the States.

This debate is getting out of hand. We are talking about $5 for fawk sake. That is a beer. The cost of living has gone up at least 20% since our last dues increase. I bet not one member will quit over $5.

:shotts:

 

[wesintl]

One last thought (well, maybe not)

At a time when were trying to keep or add value to a membership we put half, or more than half, of TT's articles online. To me this further decreases value to membership. What's the incentive to join if I'm only in it for trails and I can read half online?

Sorry, I hate to criticize without offering solutions so I think we must have a login to TLCA.org for members that offer them these type of benefits of full online articles and manuals. etc and tie this in with a online renewal system and only have 1 article or post half the article,. The other half you have to read in trails


I joined TT for trails and the discount at associate member business (back in 93)
Now I use it more for events and Trails. Yes I need to renew today

I think someone else already said it in this thread or the other one. It's not what tlca can do for you but what you can do for the tlca! Whether you write and article, help put on an event, help a local member that's a newbie, etc. That's what the TLCA is about IMHO. If evreyone took rather than gave there would be no TLCA.

 

[Dragon]

Just raise it. $5 or (even better) $10 a year is nothing. It's a couple of cokes at McDonalds. It's a good beer. If this org is worthwhile (and I believe we all agree that it is), than it is worth it to have it running right.

This is all I have to say.

 

[tarbe]

Also, many members choose to join at the third class bulk mail postage rate (versus first class postage, which is a $15 upgrade that TLCA actually loses money on at that rate).

a) raise dues to cover the cost of keeping Toyota Trails the great magazine that it is in a delcining (or at least static) membership environment.
b) perhaps consider making first class postage the only option to try to resolve the "bulkmail non-delivery" problem.

Current base membership is $27 (when paid by credit card, $25 by check).
If we add $3/year to keep Toyota Trails *great,* we move to $30/year.

This seems fairly palatable to me. I don't think folks will quit over that...
If we now add the $15 first class postage upgrade, we now jump from $27 to $45...which I think is likely to run lots off.

Help me folks! Ideas? Thoughts?

thanks, chef

I say: Raise the base rate $5 ($3 for TT and $2 for the BOD to decide with input) and increase the first class upgrade to whatever is necessary to cover the actual cost.

I don't think you'll lose a single member over that. You keep TT premier while letting the folks who want first class delivery cover the whole cost. And we generate an additional $6,000 or so per year of revenue for new projects.

 

[treerootCO]

I may have missed it but.....

How many new TLCA members did Rising Sun sign up at the rally?

 

[Rzeppa]

I may have missed it but.....

How many new TLCA members did Rising Sun sign up at the rally?

26 New or renewing memberships!