Thoughts on raising TLCA dues???

[woooody]

this will sound stupid but if dues when to $40 i would only join when i was going to rubicon or moab. I would be a member every other year. There is just not the $40 worth of info in the(tt) tlca. look at Cal 4 wheel they will send you In Gear ( their mag) for 3 mo free, just to show you what they do.... its full of cool info its worth every $ ($45) but so much of the fund go to keep trails open i think that is like 60%. I think TLCA is cool but maybe we should cut back on the Administrator and the trails, could it be in newspaper format? if we cut down on the Administration and the TT we could up our website that is where is at NOW. sorry to rant

Let me ask you this -- Did you join CA4WD to benefit BRC and other land use groups? Did you join it for their paper? Or did you actually join it (the first time) to WHEEEL?

If you want to support BRC, or FOTR, why not donate to them directly? Why go through a 3rd party? I've sent my money to FOTR. I've worked Rubithon for free every year knowing that the money made goes back to TLCA and to Del and FOTR.

CA4WD sends you in gear for 3 months for free because it costs them virtually nothing to do that. I don't see EBAY ads for past issues of In Gear. I don't see people begging for back issues of it. It's a nice publication, but it's a newsletter for the organization. TLCA has decided that our newsletter should be more that Parrot Cage lining material.

No one is suggesting that we raise dues to $40. Trails wouldn't get published (by the current people involved) if you cut out the funding for it. The regular columns wouldn't get written, it just wouldn't exist.

Perhaps we should all revisit Tony's 30th anniversary review of Toyota Trails. I don't want to go back to a mailed flyer. I really like our magazine.

I'm sorry you don't feel membership is worth it. What does it take for you to feel TLCA's pricing is "worth it"?

 

[2ndGenToyotaFan]

What does it take for you to feel TLCA's pricing is "worth it"?

Free breakfast coupon!!!!!

I don't think there's $25 worth of technical info in a years worth of trails either. You know why? Because like most of us, I've been spoiled for the last 4+ years by having internet access to huge hard drives full of Toy specific tech info.

I am now paying $30 a month for high speed internet so I can have that access. Is it worth (dang) $360 a year? So far I'm probably breaking even, I've learned an obseen amount of things Toyota related, and have been able to apply some of that to my 4Runner and save some money, but I've also learned about things that have ended up costing me more money...... Like Marlin gears, and headlight upgrades......

TLCA shouldn't be about money, or if you get enough $ worth of tech info out of TT. It should be about people and trucks and getting those two things together for the purpose they were intended. TT is just a sweet bonus, and lets other members read about the cool events they had to miss, and maybe it'll get them interested in getting out to an event or 2...

 

[Green Lantern]

Ross and Jeff's posts make very good points (#138 & #139). I agree that everything in the budget is on the table each year. I also strongly believe Toyota Trails is our crown jewel and accounts for the dedicated members that we count on so much.

IMHO, folks join TLCA to learn about their trucks, meet similar minded people, and enjoy exclusive land cruiser stories in the Trails. The events add so much more. Without events, TLCA would have faded away long ago. We have a number of members that have been around for more than 20 years. But it's the new members that breathe life into TLCA. We must continue to attract new members while we hold on to those we have.

TLCA went through some difficult times before we decided to go with an Administrator. Volunteer leaders are great, but they are underappreciated and burn out. We suffered when some members started making decisions "in a smoke filled room" and some other members demanded punishment/restructure/whatever. Both sides had a good point. Tony Twiddy and Alan Loshbaugh have bent over backwards to make TLCA operations transparent to avoid any accusations of wrong doing.

I have written contracts for three different Administrators. I feel we get our money's worth and I will always defend our Contractors from criticism without hard evidence. Our membership is VERY opinionated and it takes a very dedicated and talented person to deal with us.

If anyone feels the budget is out of order or they have a better alternative to any expense, contact me privately or publically and I'll do my best to answer questions. Finally, the bylaws welcome members to form committees to discuss and come up with solutions. This is a participation thing. If you want to make changes, please do the homework to develop practical solutions. I'm committed to helping our members in participating in our operations. HTH

Happy Trails! N

 

[JasonH]

A lot of good discussion in this thread.

Our current merchandise situation is enough for a whole 'nother thread, but is highly relevent to the discussion of whether we "need" to raise dues, regardless of what inflation has been since the last dues increase.

I think our current merchandise is weak. Other than the 30th anniversary logo, is there anything new in there that we haven't had for the last 10 years? How many of those coffee mugs do we actually sell?

Go to the "Merchandise Storefront" section here on Mud and check out all the very cool t-shirts that are being sold. Maybe there's a way to get those creative people to come up with new ideas. Either offer some sort of incentive to them to let TLCA sell their stuff, or maybe have a contest here on Mud for a new t-shirt design. Offer $100 for the winner or something. I know I've bought a lot more stuff from those guys than I have from TLCA.

 

[Chef]

Actually, we have lots of new merchandise:
1/4 zip pullover, fleece jackets, 30th Anniversary T's, and literally thousands of items in the ANC catalog that you can pick out by yerself, and order with either the tlca logo, or the 30th logo on it...

 

[Chef]

The majority of our members *do* join for Trails. I like the bigger, better Trails, and want to keep it. Under current financials, we can't...
People like you and I, and *maybe* 500 of our 3600 members attend events. The much larger majority don't. Good? Bad? I dunno, just the way it is...
Rising Sun and TornadoAlley are opening the doors for more non-wheeling member participation with the Ralley, and Camp and Float events. I hope they do well.

If $5,000 to BRC is under-funded and not enough from your point of view, TLCA will probably never do enough to satisfy your personal goals. We just don't have that kind of funding after satisfying the primary need of the majority of our membership, which is Trails. You and I, and most of the people on this list, and on the BOD, are not "Joe Member." We need to remember that as we formulate our plans to serve Joe as best we can. Your goal to do better here is a good one, and important to those of us who wish to keep public lands open for public use. This is why I asked Greg Mumm to write the Open Gate column for us, and establish a land use forum...I'm trying to wake folks up to land use issues! If you want to chair a committee to raise funds to land use independent of our membership fees, that would be a worthy task!

thanks, alan

Dude, I personally didn't join TLCA for Toyota Trails. I joined it for the sanctioned events and chapter participation; even though there are only two held near me. It's an enormous expense that's causing a tight bank account. If anything, scale back Toyota Trails until membership increases and revenue is generated to support it.

I did fact check it with the P&L before saying this and it shows that BRC received less than a grand last year in '05. It was even less in years previous. This year the budget and P&L show installment payments totalling $5K. Where else do I look to fact check and see more? Are we supporting FOTR or another group? To me as a paid member, it seems underfunded and deserves more attention than publishing Toyota Trails with an annual cost exceeding six figures. Merely my sole opinion.

Again, is this the primary reason to increase dues?

 

[Chef]

Hey Y'all;
Thanks for the spirited discussion here. I didn't expect this volume of response, but I'm very appreciative of having it!

alan

 

[JasonH]

... and literally thousands of items in the ANC catalog that you can pick out by yerself, and order with either the tlca logo, or the 30th logo on it...

Really? How does that work? I see six shirts, three fleece and two sweatshirts on the TLCA shopping site. I am going to get one of those 30th polos...
(sorry for the sidetrack)

 

[TUFFTORQ]

Well, in an effort to satisfy the other members that would like to see more funding towards BRC or FOTR, can the BOD atleast consider and entertain the thought of applying additional funding from an increase, if the trigger is pulled?

If the dues are raised $5 bucks from each member, apply $3 to TT and $2 to land use.

The majority of our members *do* join for Trails. I like the bigger, better Trails, and want to keep it. Under current financials, we can't...

If $5,000 to BRC is under-funded and not enough from your point of view, TLCA will probably never do enough to satisfy your personal goals.

thanks, alan

 

[woooody]

Well, in an effort to satisfy the other members that would like to see more funding towards BRC or FOTR, can the BOD atleast consider and entertain the thought of applying additional funding from an increase, if the trigger is pulled?

If the dues are raised $5 bucks from each member, apply $3 to TT and $2 to land use.

See my earlier post -- we aren't asking for an increase to cover Trails. The increase is for ALL operating expenses for TLCA -- Insurance, Contractors, Admins, web, Trails, etc.

Do you really think that we should double what we donate to land use cuases? Isn't that a bit excessive?

 

[TUFFTORQ]

This is key, especially at events where members WANT the TLCA merchandise. At the Rubithon, I bet merchandise would have sold like hot cakes, if a booth was set up and it was readily available. Maybe a thought for all sanctioned events? Again, there is a demand for merchandise, we just have to make it readily available for members.

Can we come up with some poncho's or rain jackets with our logo?

My proposed alternative, is to keep taxes the same and instead increase revenue through increased membership and merchandise sales. I had a TLCA member PM me on this forum offering to do inventory/fullfillment of TLCA merchandise. Bringing merchandise back "in-house" will do two things. It will allow us to present the merchandise the way we want to within our web store, and it will bring our margins back to a range where we can actually make money on merchandise.

Our current merchandise situation is enough for a whole 'nother thread, but is highly relevent to the discussion of whether we "need" to raise dues, regardless of what inflation has been since the last dues increase.

 

[Rzeppa]

Actually, we have lots of new merchandise:
1/4 zip pullover, fleece jackets, 30th Anniversary T's, and literally thousands of items in the ANC catalog that you can pick out by yerself, and order with either the tlca logo, or the 30th logo on it...

I knew that...but:

When I saw that post I went out to our store to have a look around. I not only could not find a way to get into the ANC store, or any explanation that you can have any of their products made up custom with our logo, the darn store wouldn't let me back into the main TLCA site. IOW:

(1) Our store doesn't say you can get the other stuff
(2) Our store doesn't have a link to get into the ANC part
(3) Our store doesn't have a way out by either clicking anything, or by hitting the browser back button

 

[TUFFTORQ]

The increase is for ALL expenses other than TT? Everything that I've read so far has been for TT. And Yes, I think that we should donate more to land use causes other than TT. I don't think it will be a bit excessive considering that alot of our trails and forest areas are being targeted for closure to OHV use. I realize that TLCA isn't the only contributor, but how far does $5K go for a nationwide problem? As an organization, we're more concerned with a large publication. I agree that other operating costs should be examined.

If there are excessive operating costs incurred, TLCA should consider alternative solutions to better serve the organization.

See my earlier post -- we aren't asking for an increase to cover Trails. The increase is for ALL operating expenses for TLCA -- Insurance, Contractors, Admins, web, Trails, etc.

Do you really think that we should double what we donate to land use cuases? Isn't that a bit excessive?

 

[woooody]

This is key, especially at events where members WANT the TLCA merchandise. At the Rubithon, I bet merchandise would have sold like hot cakes, if a booth was set up and it was readily available. Maybe a thought for all sanctioned events? Again, there is a demand for merchandise, we just have to make it readily available for members.

Can we come up with some poncho's or rain jackets with our logo?

I'd confirm with Tony or Cindy, but I don't think merchandise sold that well at Rubithon, given the effort to haul it all in and out. Moab (or any event with a base camp) would be different.

 

[TUFFTORQ]

It's just a thought to move merchandise. With TLCA's blessing and Tony and Cindy's approval, I'd like to see if our club can divy up a few boxes for next year with an ez-up and atleast try.

I'd confirm with Tony or Cindy, but I don't think merchandise sold that well at Rubithon, given the effort to haul it all in and out. Moab (or any event with a base camp) would be different.

 

[woooody]

I knew that...but:

When I saw that post I went out to our store to have a look around. I not only could not find a way to get into the ANC store, or any explanation that you can have any of their products made up custom with our logo, the darn store wouldn't let me back into the main TLCA site. IOW:

(1) Our store doesn't say you can get the other stuff
(2) Our store doesn't have a link to get into the ANC part
(3) Our store doesn't have a way out by either clicking anything, or by hitting the browser back button

I tried the same thing... No workie. If our members can't see it, they won't buy it.

I tried searching on "polo" and only got our logo'ed polo. I would have liked to have seen all polos carried by ANC that we could put logos on.

 

[45Kevin]

You know I am listening to similar concerns from another club I belong to. The current executive want to increase the membership. Why, I can not figure that out. The club is similar in nature to the TLCA except it is for vintage bikes. I joined the club 10 years ago because I wanted to get to know others with a similar interest / passion. I have watched it go from a social type club to a business oriented club and now meetings are filled with discussions about our next project, designed to increase membership. It is not as enjoyable to belong any more.

Why does the TLCA need to increase it's membership? Is it to gain more dues revenue? Is it just the business mindset that bigger means better? Are the 10% of the membership that do 90% of the work getting burned out and trying to find replacements? I would prefer to see fewer members that are loyal to the cause than try and cater to sub-sets and fencesitters to increase the membership. This is not a business. It is a self serving special interest club. New Landcruiser / Toyota 4x4 lovers will find us. I would like to see the TLCA remain as it is.

TLCA provides a very good mag every two months. It makes me feel that I am part of a family of LC enthusiasts. It provides me with tech info and world wide LC contacts. It also provides economically (the only way we could get insurance) priced insurance for our santioned event. The face to face so far has been limited to local events but I am looking forward to get to other TLCA events at some point.

Being from outside the US I see some of my dues going to BRC and wonder what I get out of it, but it is only a few bucks and what happens in the states usually comes to Canada so I don't begrudge it. As part of our own club dues we also contribute to local land use groups. Another portion of our club dues goes to pay our TLCA dues. That is our contribution to the membership drive. All members of the RMLCA have to be members of the TLCA. Our club dues are $75/year. I don't think an increase of $5 would affect our membership numbers. I think everyone understands that the cost of everything goes up over time.

It is a shame that this forum (mud, and thanks Woody) is not hosted by TLCA but rather an independant person. This is the type of new service that the TLCA could have provided to keep it's members better informed. On the converse, this form has probably led to some new members. As you can see by the number of stars that Woody has sold, there will always be some people that are too lazy, or too cheap, or just don't get around to joining / paying to belong.

You guys on the executive are doing a great job. If our dues need to go up to maintain what we have, then raise them. I know that most of you spend a lot of time doing TLCA stuff when you would rather be with you cruisers. Thank you.

 

[Chef]

Please move all thoughts to merchandise to the "new merchandise thread" in this forum. I'll answer some of your questions from here, over there

 

[Rzeppa]

I'd confirm with Tony or Cindy, but I don't think merchandise sold that well at Rubithon, given the effort to haul it all in and out. Moab (or any event with a base camp) would be different.

I saw a LOT of TLCA merchandise sold at the Cruise Moabs that they came to.

 

[nspctr1]

I currently am not a member but have owned Toyota's since the late 80's, Everything from the mini to my current 73 FJ40 and had no idea that there was a mag included with the membership, I have never seen a TT magazine anywhere so I have been subscribing to 4 Wheel Off Road . I am not sure if these 2 are comparable or not since I've not seen a TT but if it relates more to the toyota, has alot of tech tips as well as discounts I believe I would pony up. I recently sold my street rod and had been a member of the local club and the dues were 45 bux a year and all that got you was a free ticket to the local car show, you had to attend at least 4 meetings a year to remain a member. It sounds like to me that exposure is the biggest problem. I have spoken with a local TLCA member here a couple of years ago and even went to a meeting but the guys weren't very friendly, After introducing myself to a few of them I sat in the back of the meeting place and eventually left. This could be a one time thing or not. In closing, had I known of any and all of the benefits that were offered by being a member, I probably would have signed up a few years ago. I do not know what it would cost but, maybe if someone wants to join, send them a free magazine to let them know what it's about, along with the benefits locally such as discounts, etc. I know of a couple of shops here locally that I would not mind hitting them up for discounts for club members. One more thing I forgot to mention but, I thought was a great idea. The street rod club I belonged to would pick a car that needed work done to it such as brakes or whatever it was, and the members would get together and help fix the car. The owner would pay for parts of course but it kept alot of interest in the club and taught the other members how to do the repair, modification etc......
Sorry for the long post but thought it would be helpful....
Kevin