Thought exercise (1 Viewer)

[archie73]

I have enough on my plate at the moment, so I'm not sure why I even go down this road...

YOu see I have these thought sometimes and there is a shell for sale:

1972 Fj40 Rockcrawler Project

$1,000.00 1972 Fj40 Rockcrawler Project for sale in Sandy, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawler Parts and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

If one looked at it as a blank slate(and all of what is there is of good condition/quality), what would the most logical build plan be? What would a realistic budget be(this would be second toy, so nothing to extravagant)?

Wants:

1. Not for the road, I have one of those rigs.
2. My desired offroad is of the slow crawling type and sand dunes occasionally.
3. I'd like to be able to roll into Moab or Sandy Hollow or other locations and not worry about capability.
4. Nothing to exotic, I like the idea of being to walk into parts stores for parts anywhere

Thoughts:

• ~40"
• longish wheel base
• full width stock 60's(Cheap&easy to find)
• Chevy drivetrain(I have a 350 or 5.3 currently available)
• Auto
• hydro steering

Whats the basement on the build cost? I have moderate fabrication capabilities and I like learning. I've never set up a link or hydro system, but you gotta start somewhere. I don't think I'll be able to farm any work out realistically, but if I use stock axle and drivetrain as my base I shouldn't have to fab every little aspect.

 

[Tank5]

I cannot offer and real advice but I like where you are going. Seems if you are planing to go all Chevy drivetrain it should be easy to keep the cost down. When I looked at the pictures i kinda thought it looked like the hard work was done, building the tube frame work.

 

[mr jits]

I have enough on my plate at the moment, so I'm not sure why I even go down this road...

YOu see I have these thought sometimes and there is a shell for sale:

1972 Fj40 Rockcrawler Project

$1,000.00 1972 Fj40 Rockcrawler Project for sale in Sandy, UT on KSL Classifieds. View a wide selection of Rock Crawler Parts and other great items on KSL Classifieds.

classifieds.ksl.com

If one looked at it as a blank slate(and all of what is there is of good condition/quality), what would the most logical build plan be? What would a realistic budget be(this would be second toy, so nothing to extravagant)?

Wants:

1. Not for the road, I have one of those rigs.
2. My desired offroad is of the slow crawling type and sand dunes occasionally.
3. I'd like to be able to roll into Moab or Sandy Hollow or other locations and not worry about capability.
4. Nothing to exotic, I like the idea of being to walk into parts stores for parts anywhere

Thoughts:

• ~40"
• longish wheel base
• full width stock 60's(Cheap&easy to find)
• Chevy drivetrain(I have a 350 or 5.3 currently available)
• Auto
• hydro steering

Whats the basement on the build cost? I have moderate fabrication capabilities and I like learning. I've never set up a link or hydro system, but you gotta start somewhere. I don't think I'll be able to farm any work out realistically, but if I use stock axle and drivetrain as my base I shouldn't have to fab every little aspect.

I'd plan on around $30k if you're thinking tons and a GM drivetrain (LS, 4l60, and an atlas). You can get away with spending a lot less, but you'll be better off just spending the coin up front (or buying a complete buggy).

 

[archie73]

I cannot offer and real advice but I like where you are going. Seems if you are planing to go all Chevy drivetrain it should be easy to keep the cost down.

Casual browsing of the classifieds agrees with this conclusion. I know this is far from fact, but it gives hope!!

When I looked at the pictures i kinda thought it looked like the hard work was done, building the tube frame work.

I like the way you think. if the tube work is done well it would save a bunch of time and tool expense.

I'd plan on around $30k if you're thinking tons and a GM drivetrain (LS, 4l60, and an atlas).

You are dream killer, but you may be right. I've followed your last build with an eye toward a possible buggy build. All parts would have to be used take outs, there's not a budget for an Atlas unfortunately. Perhaps a 350/350/??? could save money.

You can get away with spending a lot less, but you'll be better off just spending the coin up front (or buying a complete buggy).

Since I have to drive a day or so to notable wheeling locations, the build is a major part of the fun for me.

 

[mr jits]

Casual browsing of the classifieds agrees with this conclusion. I know this is far from fact, but it gives hope!!



I like the way you think. if the tube work is done well it would save a bunch of time and tool expense.


You are dream killer, but you may be right. I've followed your last build with an eye toward a possible buggy build. All parts would have to be used take outs, there's not a budget for an Atlas unfortunately. Perhaps a 350/350/??? could save money.


Since I have to drive a day or so to notable wheeling locations, the build is a major part of the fun for me.

I totally get that, I love the build process. 350/350 with a landcruiser doubler can really help to keep the costs down.

 

[archie73]

So I did a speculative buy list off the classifieds and hit a little more than 10k hitting all the big ticket items I could think of off the top of my head. So 15-20 is probably closer to the truth I suppose.
I am still curious what a budget mind stout build would consist of parts wise.
My thoughts are

• Chevy 350- I have one, but they can be had running for cheap
• Th350- once again pretty cheap and who needs overdrive on this type build
• Np205- strong
• 1tons- strong and fairly cheap
• 4link/3link- they seem pretty proven

Toyota stuff is great, but cheap and stout don’t equal Toyota. What would people do differently?

 

[mr jits]

The only thing I would rethink is the 205. There are much better options (I get they're $$$), but they're worth it. At the very least, do a 205 with a Titan box.

 

[cseitz]

a 203/205 combo if you are not worried about drivetrain length wouldn't be a bad option. I love my Lomax 205, and strength wise, it sure hell isn't my weakest link. I think it would be easy to keep under 20k if it wasn't driven by a deadline. I f you could slowly accumulate parts and hang on to them as deals arise, its plenty feasible.

 

[archie73]

If I can get to SLC, I’m tempted to make an offer. Problem is I don’t have any immediate plans to get down there.

So currently, there’s a set of king pin 60(dodge) for sale locally. I believe they have 3.56 gears. Would a doubler( auto& ~40” tires) give those gears decent crawl ratio? It’d be nice to have the ability to drive short distances on the road, I suppose.

This would definitely be a slow progression project. I don’t currently have much in the way of funds to start. It’d be awesome to have a suspension and axles setup this winter so I could have a rolling chassis.
To that end, I’ve never even considered setting up a 4 or 3 link. I’d take any and all advice on that front.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

You are going to spend $30k minimum to get what you want. Just accept that and move on. If you can accept less, like Land Cruiser parts on 35s and leaf springs, you'll spend a little less. But for sure, if I was planning a "big build" it would include an Atlas, 60s, lockers, an LS motor and lots of welded tube. That's going to be spendy.

You are also going to need a tow rig and trailer. Another $30k minimum.

But if funds are tight, stop now. There is nothing worse in the end, than underfunded big dreams. You'll end up with nothing, that you sank a bunch of money into.

 

[archie73]

You are going to spend $30k minimum to get what you want. Just accept that and move on. If you can accept less, like Land Cruiser parts on 35s and leaf springs, you'll spend a little less. But for sure, if I was planning a "big build" it would include an Atlas, 60s, lockers, an LS motor and lots of welded tube. That's going to be spendy.

You are also going to need a tow rig and trailer. Another $30k minimum.

But if funds are tight, stop now. There is nothing worse in the end, than underfunded big dreams. You'll end up with nothing, that you sank a bunch of money into.

I have this in mind as well. Main reason I haven’t pursued what’s left of someone else’s dream. I have the trailer and tow rig. I have an ls I was thinking of putting in the current 35” cruiser. I do understand the reasoning of the atlas, it’s just a tough pill to swallow. I’m warming up to it, maybe I could find a mythical used atlas...

 

[cseitz]

If I can get to SLC, I’m tempted to make an offer. Problem is I don’t have any immediate plans to get down there.

So currently, there’s a set of king pin 60(dodge) for sale locally. I believe they have 3.56 gears. Would a doubler( auto& ~40” tires) give those gears decent crawl ratio? It’d be nice to have the ability to drive short distances on the road, I suppose.

This would definitely be a slow progression project. I don’t currently have much in the way of funds to start. It’d be awesome to have a suspension and axles setup this winter so I could have a rolling chassis.
To that end, I’ve never even considered setting up a 4 or 3 link. I’d take any and all advice on that front.

You would want a lower set of gears if you plan on running the streets with it, since you will hopefully be in the 1:1 range of your t-case. I have a set of 5.38's on mine with 40's and my LM7 still works a little bit to get it moving, but its by no means sluggish. A 6.0 would be alot nicer with this setup.

 

[mr jits]

a 203/205 combo if you are not worried about drivetrain length wouldn't be a bad option. I love my Lomax 205, and strength wise, it sure hell isn't my weakest link. I think it would be easy to keep under 20k if it wasn't driven by a deadline. I f you could slowly accumulate parts and hang on to them as deals arise, its plenty feasible.

I searched high and low for a lomax when I was building my 40. It would have solved a lot of issues, and been bulletproof.

 

[archie73]

I’m looking for other drivetrain options that save money, but are worth it. My thought is I love my sm465, but an auto sounds good for this type of project. Th350’s seem to be popular and good dimensions. The TH400 is a bit longer, but still pretty stout, correct? My initial thought was a NP205, but they seem limited on gearing which would likely lead to a doubler. Since this would be a crawler more than likely, an auto/doubler sounds kinda long( and increasing the price). Am I being to concerned about the length? Perhaps I should be keeping an eye out for a Dana 300?
As I said, I’d like to stay with stock drivetrain, which is likely to start with Chevy engine(SBC or 5.3, I have both) and transmission. Likely the his will come down to the deals I find. Thanks for listening to my musings.

 

[mr jits]

I’m looking for other drivetrain options that save money, but are worth it. My thought is I love my sm465, but an auto sounds good for this type of project. Th350’s seem to be popular and good dimensions. The TH400 is a bit longer, but still pretty stout, correct? My initial thought was a NP205, but they seem limited on gearing which would likely lead to a doubler. Since this would be a crawler more than likely, an auto/doubler sounds kinda long( and increasing the price). Am I being to concerned about the length? Perhaps I should be keeping an eye out for a Dana 300?
As I said, I’d like to stay with stock drivetrain, which is likely to start with Chevy engine(SBC or 5.3, I have both) and transmission. Likely the his will come down to the deals I find. Thanks for listening to my musings.

A dana 300 with 4:1 and the HD outputs would work great behind a TH350. Unless your looking at high HP numbers (above 400), you'll be fine (just don't neutral drop or think you're a rock bouncer).
If you have cash ready, keep an eye on pirate as the built dana 300's come up for sale pretty regularly.
After having run and rebuilt both a th350 and a 4l60e, I would definitely go TH350 and build it up yourself with monster transmission parts.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Good luck. Remember the ultimate Dana 300 is an Atlas. And in my opinion the SM465 is great. Really great. So, 5.3 to 465 to Atlas would be a winner. In an FJ40, and SM420 is even shorter and helps with drivetrain length, while still being a great low range transmission, with 2 ton truck strength. Drive train length in an FJ40 makes any autobox harder to fit. Don't ditch your SM465 too quickly. To me, it's the ultimate offroad FJ40 transmission.

 

[archie73]

A dana 300 with 4:1 and the HD outputs would work great behind a TH350. Unless your looking at high HP numbers (above 400), you'll be fine (just don't neutral drop or think you're a rock bouncer).
If you have cash ready, keep an eye on pirate as the built dana 300's come up for sale pretty regularly.
After having run and rebuilt both a th350 and a 4l60e, I would definitely go TH350 and build it up yourself with monster transmission parts.

How about the TH400? I found one attached to a D300. They're said to be stock and good condition. Price is right and they seem to be upgradable if I get to that point down the road. This is dangerous, I'm getting excited...

 

[archie73]

Good luck. Remember the ultimate Dana 300 is an Atlas. And in my opinion the SM465 is great. Really great. So, 5.3 to 465 to Atlas would be a winner. In an FJ40, and SM420 is even shorter and helps with drivetrain length, while still being a great low range transmission, with 2 ton truck strength. Drive train length in an FJ40 makes any autobox harder to fit. Don't ditch your SM465 too quickly. To me, it's the ultimate offroad FJ40 transmission.

I did a Atlas comparison and unfortunately its out my reach for this imaginary build. The D300 seems like a logical compromise, not as burly- but proven. NP205 also seems like a good contender, but gearing is the issue.

My 465 is not going anywhere, its in my 73 with Toyota parts and 35's. It's a great transmission- fits the cruiser perfectly. Ive mused about an NV4500, but realistically I don't think its worth the cost.

For the theoretical build, I'm musing over a stretched wheel base that would allow the auto. My internetting has me musing on the advantages of a auto offroad. Since I'm not what I would call a heavy footed driver, I was hoping a stockish TH350 or TH400 would work. My concern is the ~40" treads doing the drivetrain in. I'd have be finesse driver- at least until I decide to upgrade bits and pieces.

 

[boots4]

The TH400 is the stronger transmission and can be built to deal with serious power. If it's a stock 350 vs a stock 400 the 400 is stronger.

For any auto an additional cooler is smart insurance.

 

[cseitz]

After having both an sm420 and auto in my cruiser, I am entirely sold on having an automatic. I love my 4l60e especially for highway speeds with od. With a buggy, I would sweat drivetrain length, I could squeeze a doubler in mine and it's full bodied, but my rear ds would be rather short.