Okay, before anyone suggests anything to the contrary, I did make an effort to remedy this situation with Bobby via email/phone.
In a nutshell, I have two problems:
1) one Longfield is failing after 10,000 miles.
2) another Longfield was destroyed by a failed wheel bearing OR the Longfield failed, destroying the wheel bearing. In explaining the situation to him, Bobby Long responded that he would replace the joint. And now he says he will not.
Details here:
In February 2007 My truck got a new pair of Longfields.
In April 2008, one failed. Suspecting that this was a result of a bad wheel bearing, I sent the following email to Long's Enterprises (please carefully note the paragraph I have bolded):
From:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To:XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: snapped longfield
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:20:16 +0000
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Re: snapped longfield
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:24:57 -0700
I don't expect BL to replace the one that's failing now, as that appears to be a result of wear (although I have to wonder if 10,000 easy miles is reasonable life for even a "softer, less durable" joint such a chromoly one - I would figure that one would get at least 50,000 miles from a well maintained one. I mean, it's not made of marzipan. More on that later).
When I called the company to give them my credit card number (to cover the return shipping), I was told that Bobby needed to speak with me, but that he wasn't there and would call me back.
Missing his call, I received voice mail from Bobby, telling me that he would sell me another joint for the regular pricer of $295.00. Admittedly, there was something wrong with my voicemail, and the message was a little garbled. But the part about wanting $295 for the birf was clear as a bell (so to speak).
I sent the following email to them, attaching the original email exchange:
This morning I received another voice mail from Bobby, stating that they would discount $50 from the replacement price of the Longfield, plus shipping. He also stated he would email me with details, which has not happened yet.
Now, here's the thing: he also stated (and I can quote this because I kept the voice mail): "...and we tell you guys these are not for daily drivers. They are for hard-core trail rigs.
We keep telling you that." ("you" meaning, I assume, "you guys", not me specifically).
Here I post, for your consideration the only official documentation I can find from Long's Enterprises, regarding the strength and durability of their product:
Longfield Super Axles
I acknowledge that it is fairly common knowledge that chromoly is softer than regular forged steel, and will wear slightly faster. I did not know that when I ordered my axles, and nobody told me. But, I can accept that, to a reasonable degree - however, I did not expect to get a mere 10,000 miles from this joint. Am I being unreasonable?
More importantly, this information is stated nowhere on any of Long Enterprise's information. NOWHERE does it say "do not install our products on a daily driver".
Perhaps it should.
It is worth noting that SleeOffRoad states the following in the description of their own chromoly birfield:
"Chromemoly (sic) units are made to withstand higher shocks loads and twisting forces. This is achieved by making the joint from chryogenically stabilized aviation grade steel. This design makes them a good choice for vehicles with larger tires and are used in more hardcore application, but they will wear faster."
However, my biggest beef - and the ultimate reason for this post
- is because Bobby Long has said one thing, and done another. I was very forthcoming in my disclosure of the circumstances - as best I knew - which led to the joint's failure.
Bobby Long could have said right there and then that the kind of failure I described wasn't covered by his warranty. That would have been understandable. Instead, he said he would honour it, and then said he wouldn't. That cost me about $30 in shipping and a whole bunch of wasted time to discover. And, it has caused me to reconsider my endorsement of his products - not necessarily because of their quality but because of how they are backed.
Am I saying Bobby Long's product is no good? No. Apparently, according to him, it's only good if you drive a dedicated trail rig and put very little mileage on it. Certainly if that's how you roll, his products can't be beat.
Am I saying his customer service is poor? No, not at all. All his responses have been promt and courteous. However, what I am saying is that he told me one thing and then did something else. I don't find that to be good business practice, although everything else he does appears to be beyond reproach.
Am I saying don't buy his products? No. What I am saying is that you need to consider the application for which he offers his products. If you don't drive your vehicle specifically within the somewhat fluid and arbitrary parameters he has set for his warranty, you need to examine, examine, and examine again whether this is the kind of part you want to run in your rig.
Do I wish him ill-will? No, absolutely not. By all accounts he's a stand-up guy who supports our community and is well-respected. I'm sure he will post here with his side of the story, and he is well within his rights to do so. But how can he justify saying he will replace the joint, and then saying he won't?
I should add that I cannot post photos of the broken Longfield because it is currently in BL's possession. But, at any rate the condition of the joint isn't the issue; its condition is typical of a joint destroyed by bearing failure. I completely disclosed that fact to him from the get-go.
The bottom line is that two years ago I spent $600 for new joints on a truck which is not regularly abused or wheeled hard. 13 months later one joint had to be replaced, and now the other one does. I'm out of pocket that amount, plus whatever a new OEM joint is going to cost me, plus the other front-end parts I need. Plus time. Plus frustration.
Just consider this post when it comes time to replace your birfields.
edited for typos.
In a nutshell, I have two problems:
1) one Longfield is failing after 10,000 miles.
2) another Longfield was destroyed by a failed wheel bearing OR the Longfield failed, destroying the wheel bearing. In explaining the situation to him, Bobby Long responded that he would replace the joint. And now he says he will not.
Details here:
In February 2007 My truck got a new pair of Longfields.
In April 2008, one failed. Suspecting that this was a result of a bad wheel bearing, I sent the following email to Long's Enterprises (please carefully note the paragraph I have bolded):
From:XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To:XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: snapped longfield
Date: Wed, 16 Apr 2008 04:20:16 +0000
Hi Bobby and company
Well, I don't know exactly how it happened, but the driver's side Longfield in my 1994 FZJ80 snapped last week. Funny thing is that I'm only running 295/75R16 (about 34"), and I was unlocked on regular old pavement at the time, during my boring old commute to work. The diff was running "open" at the time.
Imagine my surprise after a year of moderate wheeling every chance I can get off-road, to have my axle fail at about 5 MPH on a four lane piece of urban blacktop!
It's tough to tell exactly what occurred, but it appears that either the Longfield broke and trashed the wheel bearing, or the wheel bearing failed and trashed the birf. Either way, I'm out for the cost of a Longfield, a bearing, a spindle, and a caliper. Luckily I kept my stock birfs, but I'd really like to replace that Longfield with another one. The shaft is broken just below the base of the bell.
I want to stress that whatever happened, it wasn't a result of wheeling or rock-crawling, and I don't think the Longfield was to blame. I'm only writing to you to see if your non-breakage guarantee would cover this. I figure the worst you could say was "no"; therefore I'd be a fool to not at least ask. I think it's only fair to disclose to you that the bearing may have failed and caused the Longfield to break - I just can't be sure.
I'll have photos of the parts in a couple of days - I left my camera somewhere.
Cheers,
(Iron Yuppy)
PS My Longfields were purchased in January or February 2007, through John Barron at E4 Automotive in Duncan BC. They have about 4,000 miles on them.
I received the following response from Bobby Long: Well, I don't know exactly how it happened, but the driver's side Longfield in my 1994 FZJ80 snapped last week. Funny thing is that I'm only running 295/75R16 (about 34"), and I was unlocked on regular old pavement at the time, during my boring old commute to work. The diff was running "open" at the time.
Imagine my surprise after a year of moderate wheeling every chance I can get off-road, to have my axle fail at about 5 MPH on a four lane piece of urban blacktop!
It's tough to tell exactly what occurred, but it appears that either the Longfield broke and trashed the wheel bearing, or the wheel bearing failed and trashed the birf. Either way, I'm out for the cost of a Longfield, a bearing, a spindle, and a caliper. Luckily I kept my stock birfs, but I'd really like to replace that Longfield with another one. The shaft is broken just below the base of the bell.
I want to stress that whatever happened, it wasn't a result of wheeling or rock-crawling, and I don't think the Longfield was to blame. I'm only writing to you to see if your non-breakage guarantee would cover this. I figure the worst you could say was "no"; therefore I'd be a fool to not at least ask. I think it's only fair to disclose to you that the bearing may have failed and caused the Longfield to break - I just can't be sure.
I'll have photos of the parts in a couple of days - I left my camera somewhere.
Cheers,
(Iron Yuppy)
PS My Longfields were purchased in January or February 2007, through John Barron at E4 Automotive in Duncan BC. They have about 4,000 miles on them.
From: XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
To: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Re: snapped longfield
Date: Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:24:57 -0700
just send it back with $25.00 plus the shipping to Canada and we will send you a new one.
Thanks
Bobby-----
So I did. Admittedly, I left it a while, because I was busy. Here'e the thing, though. The other Longfield, with about 10,000 miles on it now, is failing. It is clicking/binding and needs to be replaced. So I sent the broken axle to Bobby, expecting him to honour the statement he made in his email. Thanks
Bobby-----
I don't expect BL to replace the one that's failing now, as that appears to be a result of wear (although I have to wonder if 10,000 easy miles is reasonable life for even a "softer, less durable" joint such a chromoly one - I would figure that one would get at least 50,000 miles from a well maintained one. I mean, it's not made of marzipan. More on that later).
When I called the company to give them my credit card number (to cover the return shipping), I was told that Bobby needed to speak with me, but that he wasn't there and would call me back.
Missing his call, I received voice mail from Bobby, telling me that he would sell me another joint for the regular pricer of $295.00. Admittedly, there was something wrong with my voicemail, and the message was a little garbled. But the part about wanting $295 for the birf was clear as a bell (so to speak).
I sent the following email to them, attaching the original email exchange:
Hi Terra
Please see attached the original email exchange from Bobby regarding my broken Longfield.
I received a voice mail from someone in your tech department yesterday, but the message was a bit garbled (there is something wrong with my cell provider's servers). However, from that message, I understand that Long Enterprises now want me to pay the full price for the Longfield, despite previously stating that it would be replaced.
If it wasn't your intention to replace the axle despite my full disclosure regarding the circumstances that led to its failure, you really should have said so before I spent $30 shipping it to you, and wasting this time instead of buying a birfield immediately from another vendor.
Can you please clarify what your company's position is regarding this unit? If you do not intend to replace it under warranty, please repackage my property and return it to me at my expense; I should wish to publish this series of emails on iH8mud.com and other sites, so there is no question for future customers curious about your company's warranty limits.
Furthermore, the other Longfield in my truck is now making noises indicating it is at the end of its lifespan, despite having approximately 10,000 easy miles on it. The joint has been greased appropriately, and never wheeled hard, but is apparently about to fail. It is for that reason that I need to get a replacement joint, either from you (under warranty) or from Slee, Toyota or a greaseable unit from Australia if you choose not to honour Bobby's previous statement.
Thanks for your time; I hope to be able to continue to do business with you.
(Iron Yuppy)
Please see attached the original email exchange from Bobby regarding my broken Longfield.
I received a voice mail from someone in your tech department yesterday, but the message was a bit garbled (there is something wrong with my cell provider's servers). However, from that message, I understand that Long Enterprises now want me to pay the full price for the Longfield, despite previously stating that it would be replaced.
If it wasn't your intention to replace the axle despite my full disclosure regarding the circumstances that led to its failure, you really should have said so before I spent $30 shipping it to you, and wasting this time instead of buying a birfield immediately from another vendor.
Can you please clarify what your company's position is regarding this unit? If you do not intend to replace it under warranty, please repackage my property and return it to me at my expense; I should wish to publish this series of emails on iH8mud.com and other sites, so there is no question for future customers curious about your company's warranty limits.
Furthermore, the other Longfield in my truck is now making noises indicating it is at the end of its lifespan, despite having approximately 10,000 easy miles on it. The joint has been greased appropriately, and never wheeled hard, but is apparently about to fail. It is for that reason that I need to get a replacement joint, either from you (under warranty) or from Slee, Toyota or a greaseable unit from Australia if you choose not to honour Bobby's previous statement.
Thanks for your time; I hope to be able to continue to do business with you.
(Iron Yuppy)
This morning I received another voice mail from Bobby, stating that they would discount $50 from the replacement price of the Longfield, plus shipping. He also stated he would email me with details, which has not happened yet.
Now, here's the thing: he also stated (and I can quote this because I kept the voice mail): "...and we tell you guys these are not for daily drivers. They are for hard-core trail rigs.
We keep telling you that." ("you" meaning, I assume, "you guys", not me specifically).
Here I post, for your consideration the only official documentation I can find from Long's Enterprises, regarding the strength and durability of their product:
Longfield Super Axles
I acknowledge that it is fairly common knowledge that chromoly is softer than regular forged steel, and will wear slightly faster. I did not know that when I ordered my axles, and nobody told me. But, I can accept that, to a reasonable degree - however, I did not expect to get a mere 10,000 miles from this joint. Am I being unreasonable?
More importantly, this information is stated nowhere on any of Long Enterprise's information. NOWHERE does it say "do not install our products on a daily driver".
Perhaps it should.
It is worth noting that SleeOffRoad states the following in the description of their own chromoly birfield:
"Chromemoly (sic) units are made to withstand higher shocks loads and twisting forces. This is achieved by making the joint from chryogenically stabilized aviation grade steel. This design makes them a good choice for vehicles with larger tires and are used in more hardcore application, but they will wear faster."
However, my biggest beef - and the ultimate reason for this post
- is because Bobby Long has said one thing, and done another. I was very forthcoming in my disclosure of the circumstances - as best I knew - which led to the joint's failure.
Bobby Long could have said right there and then that the kind of failure I described wasn't covered by his warranty. That would have been understandable. Instead, he said he would honour it, and then said he wouldn't. That cost me about $30 in shipping and a whole bunch of wasted time to discover. And, it has caused me to reconsider my endorsement of his products - not necessarily because of their quality but because of how they are backed.
Am I saying Bobby Long's product is no good? No. Apparently, according to him, it's only good if you drive a dedicated trail rig and put very little mileage on it. Certainly if that's how you roll, his products can't be beat.
Am I saying his customer service is poor? No, not at all. All his responses have been promt and courteous. However, what I am saying is that he told me one thing and then did something else. I don't find that to be good business practice, although everything else he does appears to be beyond reproach.
Am I saying don't buy his products? No. What I am saying is that you need to consider the application for which he offers his products. If you don't drive your vehicle specifically within the somewhat fluid and arbitrary parameters he has set for his warranty, you need to examine, examine, and examine again whether this is the kind of part you want to run in your rig.
Do I wish him ill-will? No, absolutely not. By all accounts he's a stand-up guy who supports our community and is well-respected. I'm sure he will post here with his side of the story, and he is well within his rights to do so. But how can he justify saying he will replace the joint, and then saying he won't?
I should add that I cannot post photos of the broken Longfield because it is currently in BL's possession. But, at any rate the condition of the joint isn't the issue; its condition is typical of a joint destroyed by bearing failure. I completely disclosed that fact to him from the get-go.
The bottom line is that two years ago I spent $600 for new joints on a truck which is not regularly abused or wheeled hard. 13 months later one joint had to be replaced, and now the other one does. I'm out of pocket that amount, plus whatever a new OEM joint is going to cost me, plus the other front-end parts I need. Plus time. Plus frustration.
Just consider this post when it comes time to replace your birfields.
edited for typos.
Last edited:
