The welders thread (1 Viewer)

[TRAIL TAILOR]

I weld in my " shop " which it's my driveway .. it's not open, not close, not windy for sure, and use around 24CFH most of the time ... am I wasting gas .?

David, My recommendation is to play with the gas.. Turn it down and see what the results are. If you are getting nice welds with a lower CFH.... no brainer...I used to flood my MIG and TIG welds when it wasn't my $$ paying for it... If you can pull back and save the gas and $$... That's what I'd do.

J

 

[e9999]

talking about gas, how much are you increasing gas flow if using a strong fan or vacuum system when doing galvanized steel, alum or other nasty critters?

 

[TRAIL TAILOR]

talking about gas, how much are you increasing gas flow if using a strong fan or vacuum system when doing galvanized steel, alum or other nasty critters?

I won't weld on galv. ( FUME FEVER... ) if you've ever had it.. you know where I'm coming from (pass it along to another sucker...). I weld aluminum without any fans or resp hood. Stainless= hexavalent chromium. (TIG welded this for years without any resp. protection... and still do) .. If you are welding on things that you feel are hazardous, I recommend an under air hood system. Screw using fans... use the proper apparatus'/protection for the application..

J

 

[firestopper]

I welded on a bunch of galv back in the late 70's early 80's while in the Navy. That stuff will make you real sick. Drinking milk can help for mild symptoms that mimic a sudden onset of the flu. Like Jason (reevesci) stated, you really should avoid welding galvanized coated material.
I don't generally turn down work, so I take some precautions when welding on galvanize, stainless and other know hazards. For galvanized, I will prep by grinding the area or burn off out doors. Once the area is prepped, I will weld using a fume extractor fitted with filters. If you absolutely have no choice, weld outside to prevent zinc poisoning (fume fever).

 

[e9999]

well, if you have a fume extractor, that's great. For the rest of us non-pros, it seems like a fan pulling or pushing would at least help somewhat, and be an additional precaution, even outdoors.
But either way, how much if any do you increase the gas flow then?

 

[LFD2037]

Opinions needed. Hobart 140 on highest voltage setting and speed on 40 of 100. 3/16" steel using .030 FC Hobart wire. Straight 'stringer' bead. I need more penetration but have no more voltage. Do I increase WFS and move the same speed or lower WFS and slow down? Would simply changing my pattern (cursive e, V, horseshoe, c, etc) increase penetration? Thanks!

 

[e9999]

that does look a bit shallower than I'd expect for 3/16. Dang, I'm kinda assuming that 3/16" is no problem for my H140...
Preheating -if possible- might help a bit too, perhaps?

 

[LFD2037]

The suggested settings on the door actually say setting 4 & WFS 50. I'm @ setting 5 (max) & WFS 40. Will cranking the WFS up to 50 create deeper penetration?

 

[e9999]

mine says 5/50 for 1/4" (multipass) so try that, should help. But yes, I'd think your travelling speed should matter a lot too. But I'll leave it to the pros to elaborate.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

@LFD2037 , what is the line distance from your welder to the house's service main? Furthermore, is there anything else on that circuit or does your welder have a dedicated circuit? If you've got a dedicated circuit, what gauge wire was used?

Using extension cords (no matter how big) or long line runs from the main to your welder can cause poor welder performance.

Increasing the wire feed speed (assuming that's what WFS means in your book) will not increase penetration. You're already using flux core wire, so nothing you can do there.

Three things:
1. Check line runs from house's main to welder. Shorten up where possible.
2. Begin practicing multi-pass welds on the thicker stuff.
3. Buy a bigger welder.


I will say that I like the fact that you cut open a work piece weld to see the penetration. Most people who hobby weld don't do that

 

[firestopper]

well, if you have a fume extractor, that's great. For the rest of us non-pros, it seems like a fan pulling or pushing would at least help somewhat, and be an additional precaution, even outdoors.
But either way, how much if any do you increase the gas flow then?

It's not about being a pro or not. It's about preserving your health.

Mig welding outside will never yield a consistent quality weld 100% of the time. turning up/down gas to compensate for breezes will drive you nuts. Flux core welding might be your answer to welding outside.

As far as respiratory protection, buy a respirator when welding on galvanized. FWIW, the fume extractor was $200.00 at an action. another $150 for a new serviceable filter. Cheap investment for a healthier outcome.

 

[LFD2037]

@LFD2037 , what is the line distance from your welder to the house's service main? Furthermore, is there anything else on that circuit or does your welder have a dedicated circuit? If you've got a dedicated circuit, what gauge wire was used?

Using extension cords (no matter how big) or long line runs from the main to your welder can cause poor welder performance.

Increasing the wire feed speed (assuming that's what WFS means in your book) will not increase penetration. You're already using flux core wire, so nothing you can do there.

Three things:
1. Check line runs from house's main to welder. Shorten up where possible.
2. Begin practicing multi-pass welds on the thicker stuff.
3. Buy a bigger welder.


I will say that I like the fact that you cut open a work piece weld to see the penetration. Most people who hobby weld don't do that

The receptacle is dedicated and is about a 20ft run maximum. Its 12ga wire. No extension cord. From all the reading I've been doing says I've got the WFS (wire feed speed) too low (even though it is FC wire) and it's not creating enough current due to lack of amperage from the higher WFS. I'm going to put the WFS where the panel suggests it to be and try again. Btw, it was kinda fun experimenting with the naval jelly. I won't weld anything I need true support from until i KNOW my welds are what they should be.

 

[firestopper]

@LFD2037 , what is the line distance from your welder to the house's service main? Furthermore, is there anything else on that circuit or does your welder have a dedicated circuit? If you've got a dedicated circuit, what gauge wire was used?

Using extension cords (no matter how big) or long line runs from the main to your welder can cause poor welder performance.

Increasing the wire feed speed (assuming that's what WFS means in your book) will not increase penetration. You're already using flux core wire, so nothing you can do there.

Three things:
1. Check line runs from house's main to welder. Shorten up where possible.
2. Begin practicing multi-pass welds on the thicker stuff.
3. Buy a bigger welder.


I will say that I like the fact that you cut open a work piece weld to see the penetration. Most people who hobby weld don't do that

Very good advice, I believe 110 vac machines have their place but are limited. Flux core will always be hotter than the same machine running gas.
Turning up the WFS alone will not make it hotter.

Your cross section actually looks pretty good considering the machine size. If you want more heat you need to get a bigger machine (240 vac).
I ran a 140 handler many years ago and don't recall the max parameters for said machine.

 

[GLTHFJ60]

It looks like 12ga is specified for 20amp service, which is what your Hobart 140 is rated to draw, so you should be good there.

I'm with @firestopper , I don't think that turning up the wire speed alone will help, but it can't hurt to try! The Hobart 140 is rated for up to 1/4", but I'm not sure if that's multi-pass or not. I'd have to read into it more.

http://www.hobartwelders.com/products/wirefeed/handler140/#Specifications

 

[LFD2037]

It's rated for 3/16" single pass, 1/4" multiple pass. I've read a ton of people who've successfully done a single pass on 3/16" and some even say 1/4". Now, I don't know if the actually cut their welds and used naval jelly like I did to check actual penetration. Almost everything I'll be welding will be smaller than 3/16". Tomorrow I'll try turning the speed up and see if that helps with the penetration. What the manufacturers say is by increasing WFS you increase amperage, by increasing amperage you're increasing current and the higher the current, the deeper the penetration (Ohm's Law and all that weird stuff I don't understand). Is this theory not correct? Is there anything else, besides a bigger machine (220V), that will increase penetration? Thanks for all of your input!

 

[e9999]

I also did read various times that the WFS does affect amperage. Although the reason -besides possibly varying wire resistance due to wire temperature profile variations- is not clear to me.

I did do some welding on 3/16" with the H140. I didn't do a cross-section test yet but everything looked fine penetration wise after full grinding.

Btw, you could try to call Hobart tech support. I did once and talked at length to a very knowledgeable -i'm guessing old pro welder- guy who gave me lots of good advice.

I did trip a 15A breaker on a regular extension cord on max setting on my H140. So I made myself a beefy 10gauge extension cord just long enough to reach the welder from a good 20ga circuit and I turn off everything else on that circuit. Satisfied with that. (I'll say though that Hobart did put a pretty skinny power cord on that welder, oddly enough.)

 

[e9999]

It's not about being a pro or not. It's about preserving your health.

Mig welding outside will never yield a consistent quality weld 100% of the time. turning up/down gas to compensate for breezes will drive you nuts. Flux core welding might be your answer to welding outside.

As far as respiratory protection, buy a respirator when welding on galvanized. FWIW, the fume extractor was $200.00 at an action. another $150 for a new serviceable filter. Cheap investment for a healthier outcome.

it's precisely because I want to be careful healthwise that I was thinking of using a fan or fume extractor (which I I was thinking of building myself actually). I also do have several respirators actually but I want to go the extra distance if needed. Which is why I was asking about gas settings under fan or fume extractor conditions. I would think that this would be much more air flow than a typical outside breeze, though, so if FC is best or needed for outside, would it also be with a fume extractor? I didn't get the impression that everybody using fume extractors stick to FC only, though.

 

[e9999]

hmm, just had a thought. If you have a transformer-based machine, wouldn't the fact that voltage varies across the country mean that somebody where the mains is 120V/240V would get about 10% more power out of their welder at max setting than somebody with the same welder where the mains are 110/220? If so, that's a pretty significant difference...

 

[firestopper]

Which is why I was asking about gas settings under fan or fume extractor conditions. I would think that this would be much more air flow than a typical outside breeze, though, so if FC is best or needed for outside, would it also be with a fume extractor? I didn't get the impression that everybody using fume extractors stick to FC only, though.

You will not get good results with a mig welder with a fan blowing over your work. You can set up a fan behind you (you block the air) and the air that flows around you will pull fumes away from you (not a perfect solution).

As far as fume extractors, they have a smooth steady draw that will not effect the shielding gas for two reasons., one, the inlet is place above the work (not right on top) 8-14" depending on how much pull the machine provides. The second reason they work well is most shielding gas (noble gas)
used in welding is heavier than air and will linger over the hot work.

 

[Weber Sarge]

One really big key is to keep the wire on the leading edge of the puddle , not in the middle . Tracing that leading edge allows the arc to cut in deeper to gain penetration . If you really want to make it a hotter weld , either preheat or weld it uphill properly . Otherwise , this is the main reason not to own a 110v machine - I don't trust them above sheet metal or 1/8" max work .
Sarge