The lift from hell (rusted bolts)

[Tyler Durden]

I'm not a "newbie" when it comes to installing suspension components. I thought, "Hey...I've done Jeeps (that one was 12 years old...no bolt issues though), Hondas, VW's, etc. I can handle removing and installing some coil springs and shocks. I apparently overlooked the 14 year old LC/rusty bolt factor.

Four hours....that's what I have into it so far. After nearly an entire can of PB Blaster...what have I accomplished? I've removed less than ten bolts and manage to snap four of them.

I started with the rear suspension first. In my infinite wisdom, I only had to do the coils and shocks (I need to do the LCA's for the front). That surely would be quicker and provide me some momentum to tackle the front.

Well...it started at the control arm brackets. Yes...I managed to break two bolts (one on each side). One I can claim as being 100% my fault...the other broke when I removed the first bolt (successfully) and the arm pivoted down...snapping the second bolt.

The brake line that mounts to the frame wasn't an issue. Neither were the lower shock mounts (to my surprise). The fun really began with the upper shock mounts. I spent...I s*** you not...2.5 hours going from side to side. PB blast, loosen a bit, go to the next, loosen a bit, PB blast, and so on. After making really no progress (less than an 1/4 of a turn at a time with a 1/2" breaker bar), I broke out a ratchet with a wrench (extra leverage) to just get it over with (the writing was on the wall at that point).

I guess I'll start my morning by snapping the remaining two upper shock bolts. I'll then have to proceed to Sears (in a spare vehicle) to get a kit to drill out the bolts I screwed up. At this point (I haven't even installed anything ).

I should have just had IPOR do the install. At this rate, I'll spend the rest of the weekend fixing an abortion of a project that anyone that knows their ass from their elbows should have been able to complete inside of eight hours.

I'd be happy to listen to anyone that has $.02 about how to go about drilling out the bolts I FUBAR'd. Rant complete and I'm crashing for the night.

 

[Grant4368]

They might have blacklisted you if you brought that in for IPOR to deal with.

I got no help for you, but I'm in the same position. I've been hitting my suspension hardware with PB once or twice a week for the last 2 months in preparation for future suspension work. Not looking forward to it so please keep us updated on how it goes.

 

[SiRaDuDe]

Correct me if I'm wrong, or please clarify, since I will be doing this also soon.

When removing the Bolts/Nuts from the Front Leading Arms.

I think I read somewhere that you are supposed to loosen the Nuts and not the Bolt head due some ridges/serations on the frame surface that prevented the turning of the Bolt Head when it was torqued down.

Or is it the other way arround?

Edited:

I found where I read this, it was in the Slee web in the 2nd Page of the Caster Plate instalation instructions.
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/installation/FZJ80CasterPlate.pdf

It states:

Loosen the four bolts that attach the control arms to the axle housing.
The bolts should be loosened and not the nuts. The nuts are locked with serrations on the face of the nut. If you use an air impact wrench to do this, it will help to turn the wheels to either side to gain access to the bolts.

Loosen bolt on the rear of the arm, by loosening the nut. In this case the bolt is locked in place with serrations. Do not remove the bolt.


I'm sure this had no impact in your case, just put it out there for reference.

 

[Poser]

At this rate, I'll spend the rest of the weekend fixing an abortion of a project that anyone that knows their ass from their elbows should have been able to complete inside of eight hours.

Rust is rust; does not matter how good you are at anything. When dealing with rusty fasteners, it is better to be lucky than good. Once bolts start twisting off, you ramp up the project; pro shop or home garage does not matter. When I am tackling something very rusty, I usually start with the flame wrench and make things red; squirrel piss on severely rusted fasteners is just fake optimism.


Just hope that your Load Sensing Proportioning Valve is not leaking and RUSTED TO s***! (squeeze/wiggle the boot where the actuation rod passes through the boot and see if some rusty brake fluid leaks out)


Removing that LSPV bracket from the frame is a hoot when the Toyota custom studs twist off and the valve is rusted/stuck to the studs still in the bracket. The extra special fun is fighting the 35mm long, 8x1.25 bolts being used to secure an 18 gauge bracket in four locations to the frame. Twist the two fasteners off tucked up between the fuel tank and the frame, and you get to drop the fuel tank.


Oh what a feeling...

 

[jvazquez53]

Next time a little heat and a BFH helps...

 

[Tyler Durden]

They might have blacklisted you if you brought that in for IPOR to deal with.

I got no help for you, but I'm in the same position. I've been hitting my suspension hardware with PB once or twice a week for the last 2 months in preparation for future suspension work. Not looking forward to it so please keep us updated on how it goes.

I doubt it. It's not like someone in that situation caused it to happen. When I picked up the parts, Lance said "good luck" with the rusty bolts. I'm sure they deal with that a lot. I'm sure they also have an idea what to do once it doesn't go well (i.e. torch and BFH).

I sprayed mine for the past week. Obviously to no effect. I'll update with what I wind up doing. Last I checked. IPOR has something like a two week wait to get in for a lift, so having them come to the rescue isn't an option (though I'll give them a call this afternoon and see if they have any pointers).

Rust is rust; does not matter how good you are at anything. When dealing with rusty fasteners, it is better to be lucky than good. Once bolts start twisting off, you ramp up the project; pro shop or home garage does not matter. When I am tackling something very rusty, I usually start with the flame wrench and make things red; squirrel piss on severely rusted fasteners is just fake optimism.


Just hope that your Load Sensing Proportioning Valve is not leaking and RUSTED TO s***! (squeeze/wiggle the boot where the actuation rod passes through the boot and see if some rusty brake fluid leaks out)


Removing that LSPV bracket from the frame is a hoot when the Toyota custom studs twist off and the valve is rusted/stuck to the studs still in the bracket. The extra special fun is fighting the 35mm long, 8x1.25 bolts being used to secure an 18 gauge bracket in four locations to the frame. Twist the two fasteners off tucked up between the fuel tank and the frame, and you get to drop the fuel tank.

Oh what a feeling...

I can vouch for that. After a while, I put my electric impact wrench on the bolts. It's supposedly good for 250lbs and it hardly budged them.

That doesn't appear to be an issue.

Correct me if I'm wrong, or please clarify, since I will be doing this also soon.

When removing the Bolts/Nuts from the Front Leading Arms.

I think I read somewhere that you are supposed to loosen the Nuts and not the Bolt head due some ridges/serations on the frame surface that prevented the turning of the Bolt Head when it was torqued down.

Or is it the other way arround?

Edited:

I found where I read this, it was in the Slee web in the 2nd Page of the Caster Plate instalation instructions.
http://www.sleeoffroad.com/installation/FZJ80CasterPlate.pdf

It states:

Loosen the four bolts that attach the control arms to the axle housing.
The bolts should be loosened and not the nuts. The nuts are locked with serrations on the face of the nut. If you use an air impact wrench to do this, it will help to turn the wheels to either side to gain access to the bolts.

Loosen bolt on the rear of the arm, by loosening the nut. In this case the bolt is locked in place with serrations. Do not remove the bolt.


I'm sure this had no impact in your case, just put it out there for reference.

Yup. I was referencing a print-out of the Slee instructions. I haven't gotten there yet.

 

[darwink1]

Can I suggest lots of leverage? I was using the longest pipe I could and it helped to have a buddy to hold the wrench in place while I gently applied pressure.

D

 

[Michael Hanson]

Use a Torch to the rusted stuff when not to close to the fuel parts. Mike

 

[darwink1]

Just to add, you can get the top of the rear shock bolts off w/o taking off the stupid plates. Just find a ratchet wrench that fits in there.

D

 

[redeye]

I'm doing a rear axle replacement at the moment. If I were a betting man I'd be willing to wager that my bolts are infinitely worse than yours. So, in preparation for the replacement/restoration job I did the following:

- bought ALL NEW OEM bolts from CDan.
- PB Blasted consistently for over 2 months.
- !!! bought my first set of air tools and *impact extractor sockets". Without these the rear shock top plates wouldn't have come off.
- ordered a replacement LSPV and all new brake lines. My LSPV is so badly rusted it's barely recognizable.

I still managed to snap off 4 bolt heads. All are for the sway bar mount and bump stops so they are rather easy to get to with a drill.

It's frustrating as heck though breaking a single bolt or other component, much more so with multiple breaks.

 

[landtank]

tip for the LSPV,

When I've had to remove the bracket I only take out the two rear facing bolts. I then take a hacksaw and cut the bracket at the bend where it goes up between the frame and tank.

On re-assembly I simply weld that bend back together.

 

[Michael Hanson]

This week we had to remove the entire gas line from front to back after pulling the gas tank to replace the pump and filter. One gas connection was so rusted tight, we had to put it in my large vise and put a 2 foot pipe wrench on the other end to break it loose! Never would have removed it from underneath. Mike

 

[lt1fire]

This week we had to remove the entire gas line from front to back after pulling the gas tank to replace the pump and filter. One gas connection was so rusted tight, we had to put it in my large vise and put a 2 foot pipe wrench on the other end to break it loose! Never would have removed it from underneath. Mike

why did you have to pull the tank to replace the pump and filter? they are accessible from the top

 

[darwink1]

tip for the LSPV,

When I've had to remove the bracket I only take out the two rear facing bolts. I then take a hacksaw and cut the bracket at the bend where it goes up between the frame and tank.

On re-assembly I simply weld that bend back together.

Thats basically what I did when I did mine but I ordered a new bracket as well as a new lspv. The kicker is that I had replaced the gas tank two weeks before doing all the brake lines/lspv so I wasnt going to drop it again just to get to these 2 bolts. I cut the old bracket and left it attached then cut the new one so they overlapped. I was able to bolt the new bracket to what was left of the old one and can now take that mofo out by removing 3 bolts that I can actually reach...

I also honestly dont get why ppl remove the top plates at the rear shocks. Its a tight fit but the shocks can be changed with the plates in place and its better than breaking bolts and having to remove them.. I guess it helps that my spare tire xmember is nonexistant.

D

 

[Tyler Durden]

The front went together without an issue. I dropped it off at a shop to deal with the bolts tomorrow.

 

[N20ntegra24]

Lol I think I have tackled everyone of these issues recently. I am wondering can I make my own fuel lines out of AN fittings simply because I know my fuel lines are so rusted. I have replaced both front and rear axles every suspension bar and arm known to man. I have been slowly eradicating rust over and over again. I want to shoot the stupid @ hole that had the vehicle under coated with what looks like a tar putty over the rust lol. My best advice just hang in there and keep at it.

 

[Dave 2000]

My 80 has lived most of it's life in Cumbria in the UK, the place is so damp it is untrue. A simple job like replacing a radiator left me with bolts breaking without any effort. I can only say using the undo/spray/tighten/loosen repeat ect is the only way to go. Your problems really start when you cannot loosen the bolt/s just a turn so you can get some penetrating oil on them and wind it back intot he threaded hole, have patience I am sure you will succeed.

regards

Dave

 

[Tyler Durden]

Ugh. Won't get it back until late tomorrow. They're taking they're time working on it, so I can't complain (about the shop...at least). Probably four hours of labor. WINNING!!! (not)

 

[Jacket]

I had a similar experience. lower shock bolts came out in < 5 minutes with no issues whatsoever. Upper shocks broke 3 bolts, plus I broke two bolts where the swaybar bracket mounts to the frame. At least you didn't then try a screw extractor to removed what was left of the seized bolt. When that puppy breaks off inside the bolt you've all but conceded your chances of drilling it out.

I learned a few things - never use screw extractors ever again (once the bolt breaks, just start drilling). Use as long a bar as possible for turning leverage. And take your time - move from one bolt to the next, turn it a quarter turn, then move again. And continuous use of oil and heat whenever possible.

Needless to say my upper shock bolts went back in with tons of anti-seize.

 

[crikeymike]

Just to add, you can get the top of the rear shock bolts off w/o taking off the stupid plates. Just find a ratchet wrench that fits in there.

D

That sounds like a good idea, but how do you get in there?

**edit** Well I've answered this for myself, by just looking under there. I see no reason to remove the top plates at all after seeing the top pin of the rear shocks is quite easily accessible without taking that plate off. Even though I didn't have to deal with rusty bolts, this sure would have saved a few minutes.