Swamp Donkey died while on the highway, Transmission?

[Flyin Tyes]

I was driving up a steep highway (6%) grade Saturday morning, 50-60 mph, ETC/ pwr button pushed, minimal load. Cold morning (20 deg) heater blowing. Truck starts slowing down, engine is still running fine, but more gas pedal wasn't increasing my speed. No noises I recall when it was slowing down/ loosing power quickly, no jerking or sputtering. So I pulled over and keep the engine running.
Checked the fluid which was at the cold level, which I figured meant it was low since I had driven about 10 miles and the fluid should be warm by then?
Tried to drive a few times but no go, and with the wind chill it wasn't worth trying too much on the side of the interstate. Got the Swamp Donkey (cruiser's nickname for the moose that it is) towed home.

Troubleshooting so far since getting it home:
Checked fluid again once home after the tow, still about the same mark on the stick (low). So I add a little at a time, checking and eventually added a quart. Since I can't drive it to warm it up, I don't want to overfill and the fluid appears to be at the cold level.
The fluid is red and doesn't smell burnt.
Shifted gears while vehicle running = no movement from either drive shaft (I watched underneath while my dad shifted)
Engine rpms change similar to before when shifting gears.
There is no drive power in any gear.
It won't hold in park and grinds when shifting to park while running, but if I ease it forward it goes into park but still doesn't hold the vehicle.
A/T P light was coming on randomly at first but now isn't coming on?
Tried to shift between 4wd Hi and Low but no position makes a difference. The 4wd Low/lock light doesn't come on however.

I am struggling to recall noticing any symptoms of drivetrain issues leading up
Seemed to happen suddenly, maybe I pushed him too hard?

Thoughts are appreciated.
Sorry for the novel...
Jake

 

[mingles]

Maybe check in with @musthave on this thread... Could be some similarities.

RTH - Won't move in Drive, moves in 1st and 2nd
https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/rth-wont-move-in-drive-moves-in-1st-and-2nd.962010/#post-10698945
GL and keep us posted on the diagnosis.

 

[AussieHJCruza]

Aren’t you meant to measure ATF when it's running?

 

[SUMMIT CRUISERS]

I would verify the operation of the High, N, and Low transfer case lever from underneath. If stuck in N position, it's a no go. Also, check the transfer case fluid level and condition.

 

[SmokingRocks]

Sounds like your shift linkage is out of position. This could happen if you ripped an engine mount.

Also have you checked your kick down cable?

Is this the A442F or the A343? (93-94 or 95-97)

 

[SmokingRocks]

Oh AT P light..... neutral safety switch. Boom

On the 93-94 A442F there is a way to pull codes from the transmission. I can't remember which two ports you jump at the diagnostic port but it's laid out in the fsm. Search. Anyway it will blink the OD off light the same way the CEL light blinks when pulling ecu codes.

Need to know what transmission you have. I don't know about pulling codes on the A343, though it could be the same.

Someone else can chime in here

 

[SmokingRocks]

Check out this part of the FSM for the 93. Page AT-18 details how to pull transmission codes, there are also troubleshooting flow charts in the previous pages.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

thanks for the replies and suggestions
Sorry, no codes have showed up, I meant to mention, it was late last night and I was tired.
I do have the FSM and I wasn't able to get any codes?
I unhooked the battery to reset codes and still none, but I can't drive it so I don't know if they will show until then?
I will check underneath for the TC linkage and fluid and kick-down cable
Truck is a 94 and I believe the FSM indicates the trans is the A442F, I will see if I can verify on the vehicle tonight
I have been checking the fluid with engine running in park.

 

[SmokingRocks]

When you put the jumper in the diagnostic port as described on page AT-18 does the OD OFF light blink rapidly?

You reset any codes when you pulled the battery cable off. Do that after reading codes next time.

 

[Tools R Us]

...
Shifted gears while vehicle running = no movement from either drive shaft (I watched underneath while my dad shifted)
...
There is no drive power in any gear.
It won't hold in park and grinds when shifting to park while running, but if I ease it forward it goes into park but still doesn't hold the vehicle.
A/T P light was coming on randomly at first but now isn't coming on?
Tried to shift between 4wd Hi and Low but no position makes a difference. The 4wd Low/lock light doesn't come on however.
...

This sounds like the transfer in neutral? The A/T P light is turned on by a switch (transfer neutral position) on the transfer to warn you that park wont work in neutral. It coming on is an indicator that the transfer has shifted. When shifted, does the transfer shift feel solid, can you feel each gear change? Agree that this is the first place to look, possibly linkage related.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

This sounds like the transfer in neutral? The A/T P light is turned on by a switch (transfer neutral position) on the transfer to warn you that park wont work in neutral. It coming on is an indicator that the transfer has shifted. When shifted, does the transfer shift feel solid, can you feel each gear change? Agree that this is the first place to look, possibly linkage related.

when I shift to Low it feels solid but it Hi doesn't feel as solid as in Low. but I do feel each gear.
I did shift the Hi/Low and tried to drive when in each, but it didn't make a difference. It is acting like the TC is in neutral. Would the TC being in neutral cause grinding when I shift back to park?

 

[Tools R Us]

... Would the TC being in neutral cause grinding when I shift back to park?

Yes, without connection to the wheels, the trans parts keep spinning, nothing to stop them. Your description sounds like something is disconnected between the trans and wheels. On the early rigs the most common is the drive flange, but the drive shaft doesn't turn, and the at/p light, leaving the transfer as the main suspect.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

Yes, without connection to the wheels, the trans parts keep spinning, nothing to stop them. Your description sounds like something is disconnected between the trans and wheels. On the early rigs the most common is the drive flange, but the drive shaft doesn't turn, and the at/p light, leaving the transfer as the main suspect.

thanks for the thoughts. I will check tonight when I get home and see what I can figure out.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

When you put the jumper in the diagnostic port as described on page AT-18 does the OD OFF light blink rapidly?

You reset any codes when you pulled the battery cable off. Do that after reading codes next time.

good points, I did read the codes prior to disconnecting the battery. OD light was blinking steadily as if all was normal. I tried the battery to see if I could get the A/T P light to come back on. the light was intermittent which odd that the light was on at first and then wouldn't come back on even though park wasn't holding the vehicle.

 

[BILT4ME]

Usually the VC int the TC fails in a locked condition. Could it have failed in an unlocked condition?

Have you checked your fluid in the TC?

Have you tried revving it WAY up (4000 RPM) to see if it would move? I realize that's not the first thing anyone wants to do but if the VC is failing it may show itself.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

Usually the VC int the TC fails in a locked condition. Could it have failed in an unlocked condition?

Have you checked your fluid in the TC?

Have you tried revving it WAY up (4000 RPM) to see if it would move? I realize that's not the first thing anyone wants to do but if the VC is failing it may show itself.

I am heading home from work shortly and will see what I can regarding your suggestions. thanks for the input.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

embarrassed.
apparently the TC has been leaking [more than I thought] at the rear shaft
some shavings on my finger from checking the level.
didn't drain. figured I would try and fill with the oil I had to see if that would get the shafts turning.
put almost a quart in and tried.
nothing
rev'd rpms to 3200
H/L shift and linkage feel normal and the linkage doesn't appear to have moved.

Transfer case toast?

 

[Tools R Us]

Usually the VC int the TC fails in a locked condition. Could it have failed in an unlocked condition?

Have you checked your fluid in the TC?

Have you tried revving it WAY up (4000 RPM) to see if it would move? I realize that's not the first thing anyone wants to do but if the VC is failing it may show itself.

The VC would have nothing to do with it, I removed mine years ago. It's just a sorry excuse for a limited slip, that attempts to make the drive shafts turn at the same speed if one end loses traction. In normal driving it does nothing, when one end loses traction, it does very slightly more than nothing. It's main function is an elaborate noise/clunk reduction device!

 

[Tools R Us]

embarrassed.
apparently the TC has been leaking [more than I thought] at the rear shaft
some shavings on my finger from checking the level.
didn't drain. figured I would try and fill with the oil I had to see if that would get the shafts turning.
put almost a quart in and tried.
nothing
rev'd rpms to 3200
H/L shift and linkage feel normal and the linkage doesn't appear to have moved.

Transfer case toast?

Sounds like it's toast. Was it making noise? They very rarely fail, so are mostly leftover from part outs. If you were close, have a couple that I would sell cheap. In your case, would contact Kurt at Cruiser Outfitters if he doesn't have one, will likely know where they are hiding? They are pretty easy to swap, should be common, inexpensive, so not worth rebuilding yours. If you wheel it, would be a good opportunity to add crawler gears while it's out?

 

[SmokingRocks]

Have you verified that you have drive to the TC? or are we just jumping at that being the issue since it was low on oil? Because many have been low on oil....

The TC is pretty well linked to the transmission output and it would have to be a major major failure that would prevent it from even turning. I'm still thinking its transmission related.