Swamp Donkey died while on the highway, Transmission?

[BILT4ME]

Have you verified that you have drive to the TC? or are we just jumping at that being the issue since it was low on oil? Because many have been low on oil....

The TC is pretty well linked to the transmission output and it would have to be a major major failure that would prevent it from even turning. I'm still thinking its transmission related.

I agree. Need to verify if the TC is getting input.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

I will definitely do what I can to determine which trans or TC is having issues. I am discouraged with myself if low oil was the cause.
The H/L shifter feels good and is showing the lock/abs as normal when shifting to Low.
I try to be attentive to it's needs and noises. I don't recall anything odd leading up to it dying.
I have purchased from Cruiser Outfitters and will call there today just to get some ideas.
Any suggestions on how to check drive from trans?

 

[SmokingRocks]

I highly doubt it's your Tc, if the tc were to fail you would have known immediately and since you are still able to shift it and it locks leads me to believe it's fine.

I've been inside the tc, they are beefy units.

That said I would take a step back and trouble shoot per the FSM. The file I linked up here has the troubleshooting flow chart.

 

[SmokingRocks]

My personal thoughts are

1. that you over filled the transmission trying for a quick fix (the a442f does not like to be overfilled one bit)
2. The problem is electrical, likely a switch (neutral position switch, or a stick solenoid.)

If it were my rig I'd drain the fluid and refill per the manual. Check the dip stick to verify that it is filled between the cold marks (this is the reason those marks are there). Then retest per the FSM guide.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

I don't have any issues refilling the trans and can do that, but I didn't add fluid until after the problem.
I will check again tonight, but I am pretty sure it isn't too full.
would low or overfull fluid cause absolutely no drive and grinding when putting it park?
I have the FSM. many of troubleshooting for the trans refers to the trans service manual which I don't have.
I don't want to rule out electrical.
I replaced my #1 speed sensor (at the back of the TC) a few years ago.
I thought the trans was going out and it was having shifting issues. I came to realize after much troubleshooting that if the vehicle didn't know how fast it was going (or not going) it didn't know what gear to be in. I unplugged the sensor and everything was fine except the speedometer didn't work. I replaced the sensor but it didn't solve the problem. one day I went over a bump on the freeway and it started working...? I was baffled.
during the troubleshooting I took it to a local toyota dealership. they had the truck for 2 days and couldn't solve the problem and told me it was likely the sensor or wiring...
Lately (last few months) the speedo has worked in the morning when cold but then would quit reading speed but no other effects.

so while I wonder if this could be related, the speed sensor/ wiring issue has been going on for so many years for the truck to die suddenly with the symptoms it is having I would be surprised. but electrical issues can be odd.

I think the neutral safety switch is working. I have tried to start it in all gears to test. only P & N will allow it to start.

what do you mean stick solenoid? solenoid in the trans itself?

 

[SmokingRocks]

here is the AT section of the FSM
FSM AT Section - Google Drive

Go to page AT-13, focus on the AT/P paragraph there. Since you said you had that light come it potentially points to the TC Neutral Position Switch or the Park/Neutral Position Switch.

Lets back up one step here and get a bit more info.

1. Currently the rig doesn't move in any forward gear? L, 2, D?
2. Will the rig move in reverse?
3. Have you verified the kickdown cable is still attached to the throttle body?

If no to #1&2 then reference pages AT-15&16

You stated that the vehicle does not hold park or grinded going into park. The first step is to verify the manual linkage which happens to be the first step for your other symptom "vehicle does not move in any forward position or reverse".

Thats probably where you ought to start.

I would still do a drain and fill, 10 miles is not long enough to get the fluid to the temp it needs to be in order to check it against the hot range.

 

[SmokingRocks]

After you've gone through the above steps and if that doesn't resolve the problem then go to page AT-28 and preform that test.

If still no result then your transmission may be faulty.

 

[SmokingRocks]

If you fail all of the above then I would go to page AT-46 and test for Hydraulic pressure.

Let me know how it turns out, there are further steps if needed.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

thanks for the help.
I will setup a tent over the truck tonight and see what I can accomplish. the truck is in my driveway... weather is calling for snow here for the next day or so.

 

[gandrimp]

Since your seal is leaking (so is mine) why not pull that assembly off. You need to change the seal anyways. That would let you see how many shavings there actually are.

 

[Tools R Us]

You can do all of the trans tests, may find problems, but not likely to solve the main problem. Looking at the posted clues, this is one of the most important ones.

... absolutely no drive and grinding when putting it park? ...

The auto trans is effectively in neutral when the motor is off, this is why they have a park pawl. So the park pawl has to be on the output of the trans. For the park pawl to skip when engaged, that drum is spinning. To be spinning, the trans has to be working and something is disconnected between the trans output and the wheels. In this case, the driveshaft isn't spinning, so has to be between The trans output and the drive shaft flange, in other words, transfer case or trans output shaft broken or splines stripped.

The next clue is; shavings and low/no lube in the transfer. My experience says the transfer should be clean, have never seen one with debris that wasn't toast. My earlier reading of the post interpreted that the plugs were pulled and nothing came out, but shavings were found? Now looking, the fill plug may have been all that was removed? If so, my next step would be to remove the transfer drain plug, see what comes out, is on the magnet. If the fluid/magnet is clean, look elsewhere, if there are chunks, likely found the problem.

 

[Marine7]

I'm just throwing this out there, but when my tc let go I (and anyone within 100 yards) knew it! It sounded like I was crushing stones inside the case! Either way... good luck! These 2 will get you rolling again!

 

[Flyin Tyes]

You can do all of the trans tests, may find problems, but not likely to solve the main problem. Looking at the posted clues, this is one of the most important ones.



The auto trans is effectively in neutral when the motor is off, this is why they have a park pawl. So the park pawl has to be on the output of the trans. For the park pawl to skip when engaged, that drum is spinning. To be spinning, the trans has to be working and something is disconnected between the trans output and the wheels. In this case, the driveshaft isn't spinning, so has to be between The trans output and the drive shaft flange, in other words, transfer case or trans output shaft broken or splines stripped.

The next clue is; shavings and low/no lube in the transfer. My experience says the transfer should be clean, have never seen one with debris that wasn't toast. My earlier reading of the post interpreted that the plugs were pulled and nothing came out, but shavings were found? Now looking, the fill plug may have been all that was removed? If so, my next step would be to remove the transfer drain plug, see what comes out, is on the magnet. If the fluid/magnet is clean, look elsewhere, if there are chunks, likely found the problem.

I appreciate the comments. I am willing to check whatever it takes, love the truck.
I was able to get a tent setup last night so I have somewhere dry to work, wasn't able to make much progress otherwise but will get after it tonight and tomorrow.
I didn't pull the drain plug yet, but will. I got shavings on my finger at the fill hole, so I am sure there will be some on the magnet.
wanted to fill it and see if it made any difference at all, to no avail.
Cruiser Outfitters doesn't have any leads on either TC or trans, suggested junkyards...

 

[SmokingRocks]

Tc failer doesn't creep up on you like the posted issues. You know when you are loosing a tcase. Been there.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

finished rigging a tent over my work area last night. which is good as it is snowing steady now.
I wasn't able to make any progress last night, heading out to continue with the troubleshooting.
I called around and found a used trans & TC for a reasonable price.
Hopefully I can narrow it down today. I will update later today with any new information.
thanks again for the help.
Jake

 

[Flyin Tyes]

Tented carport workshop...

 

[BILT4ME]

I meant to ask earlier.........

Have you had someone in the truck with it running and in gear and checked to see if the FRONT driveshaft was turning?

The reason I'm asking is because if a front drive plate on the hub is sheared, the front CAN turn by having the VC inside the TC working like it should. When working properly, you can jack up ONE wheel and that wheel will spin with it in gear, but the truck will not go anywhere if it has an open diff and unlocked CDL.

You MAY be able to do this by yourself with the parking brake, blocks, and some luck but it's still kind of dangerous.

This COULD also explain the reason the transmission continues to turn and not want to allow the TC to shift or go into park without protesting.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

Drained TC yesterday. no shavings on the magnet of the drain plug?
I used a telescoping magnet in both the fill and drain holes, but was only able to get a small amount of shavings from the fill hole.
Drained transmission. fluid was dark red, smelled ok. no metal on the trans drain plug. filled it with 6 qts. checked it running and the fluid is between the cold and hot on the stick.

Tried the orig. TCM, I bought a used one a few years back troubleshooting the last issue and have been running it since, but it had no effect.
Linkage looks and feels okay. It won't start if in any but P/N. When looking under when my son shifted, the linkage seems fine.
When he was shifting H/L 4wd I could here a motor engaging in/out of Low. Assuming that is the diff/lock?
Dash lights all correspond with the gear I shift to. both trans paddle shifter and 4wd.
Oddly park and neutral have lower rpm than the gears or reverse? this used to be the other way around. not much but noticeable.

 

[Flyin Tyes]

quarter inch lined paper... magnet pulled this from TC fill hole

 

[Flyin Tyes]

1. Currently the rig doesn't move in any forward gear? L, 2, D? NO
2. Will the rig move in reverse? NO
3. Have you verified the kickdown cable is still attached to the throttle body? YES. I CHECKED THE CABLES A FEW MONTHS BACK. STILL WHERE I ADJUSTED THEM THEN.