Don't count on Downey for reliable information. There used to be rumors their springs were way to soft leading to handling issues in the 80. When I contacted them, they woudn't provide any information about their spring rates, claiming they were proprietary. They also wanted $400 a set, more than double the price of the OME. Finally, they were snotty pricks.
Suspension: stock vs OME?
- Thread starter pharmerdan
- Start date
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There seem to be many on here that are converting to Bilstein OEM-replacement shocks with 2.5" lift. I don't think they are as much of a limitation to travel as was originally thought, but I don't have any solid proof. The bushings supplied with the Bilsteins are thicker than the oem stuff, which was not factored into the original measurements made. I plan on running them with a lift when I replace these soft oem springs. Should be fine for my offroad use, and good onroad manners.
Here is what I would do, depending on the intended outcome:
Option #1) I want to retain stock ride height, I have no interest in a lift:
I would select Old Man Emu "no-lift" springs and factory Toyota shocks.
Option #2) I want a moderate lift, I do not want to monkey with "other issues" and I am not adding any cool accessories or armor:
I would select Old Man Emu medium springs, caster bushings and Old man Emu "standard" shocks.
Option #3) I want a moderate lift, I do not want to monkey with "other issues" and I am going to armor my truck and carry some extra bits with me:
I would select Old Man Emu 850 front springs and Old Man Emu 863 rear springs, caster bushings and Old Man Emu "standard" shocks. A sub issue here is a very heavy front end and a desire for a level stance. In this case I would select 850J front springs and possibly need to address additional caster correction.
Option #4) I'm at #3 but I need more load capacity because I carry more weight, have a big auxiliary fuel tank and/or tow a trailer:
I would replace the 863 rear springs with 863J If I had 200 to 300 lbs additional rear weight. I would use 864 springs if it was over 300 lbs.
Option #5) I wanna be tall:
I would select Christo Slee's 4 or 6 inch lift packages, depending on how high I wanted to go. Bear in mind that going that high will require different shocks, adjustable panhard rods, lowered bumpstops, additional caster correction and possibly CV drive shafts and adjustable upper rear control arms.
D-
Option #1) I want to retain stock ride height, I have no interest in a lift:
I would select Old Man Emu "no-lift" springs and factory Toyota shocks.
Option #2) I want a moderate lift, I do not want to monkey with "other issues" and I am not adding any cool accessories or armor:
I would select Old Man Emu medium springs, caster bushings and Old man Emu "standard" shocks.
Option #3) I want a moderate lift, I do not want to monkey with "other issues" and I am going to armor my truck and carry some extra bits with me:
I would select Old Man Emu 850 front springs and Old Man Emu 863 rear springs, caster bushings and Old Man Emu "standard" shocks. A sub issue here is a very heavy front end and a desire for a level stance. In this case I would select 850J front springs and possibly need to address additional caster correction.
Option #4) I'm at #3 but I need more load capacity because I carry more weight, have a big auxiliary fuel tank and/or tow a trailer:
I would replace the 863 rear springs with 863J If I had 200 to 300 lbs additional rear weight. I would use 864 springs if it was over 300 lbs.
Option #5) I wanna be tall:
I would select Christo Slee's 4 or 6 inch lift packages, depending on how high I wanted to go. Bear in mind that going that high will require different shocks, adjustable panhard rods, lowered bumpstops, additional caster correction and possibly CV drive shafts and adjustable upper rear control arms.
D-
- Thread starter
- #24
Wow, alot of factors to consider!
Currently, my only mod consists of 285 sized tires. I want to stay close to stock height, so option 1 is probably the best to go with.
However,
if I were to add a set of sliders, and a new front bumper (like the new one Slee is developing) and tow a small utility trailer, it sounds like it might not be the best option.
Hmmm...how do I balance these weight factors into picking a setup that will yield a near stock height?
Currently, my only mod consists of 285 sized tires. I want to stay close to stock height, so option 1 is probably the best to go with.
However,
if I were to add a set of sliders, and a new front bumper (like the new one Slee is developing) and tow a small utility trailer, it sounds like it might not be the best option.Hmmm...how do I balance these weight factors into picking a setup that will yield a near stock height?
pharmerdan said:
Hang on a second bizkit I think I better put on my boots.;p
Its getting kinda deep in here.
pharmerdan said:Wow, alot of factors to consider!
Currently, my only mod consists of 285 sized tires. I want to stay close to stock height, so option 1 is probably the best to go with.
However,
Hmmm...how do I balance these weight factors into picking a setup that will yield a near stock height?
Let me back you up, why would you want to retain the stock height if you are adding sliders and bumpers? The purpose of the bumpers (arguably) and the sliders (definetely) is to provide extra body protection for when you don't have enought clearance. They are the last stop before damage occurs. Generally, you try to get as much clearance as possible so you don't have to rely on them until it is neccessary. If you are not going to be rockcrawling or hard off roading, you may want to rethink the heavy bumper sliders, etc. The weight adds up and hurts performance, mileage, and accelerates wear on other parts.
I have considered the JDM bumper, but only because my stock one is tweeked (Previous owner). The JDM is only slightly heavier than stock, but adds a little protection. When you go to things like the Slee, you are adding 100 pounds, plus another 100+ if you put on a winch, then sliders are 150+, rear bumper and mounts another 100+. Before you know it, you have added 500-1000 pounds to the truck, over half of its rated capacity.
If you decide you want to stay near stock height get the 861/862 and the Bilsteins. You can add 10-20mm packers as necessary if you want to offset the weight of extra items. I know Cdan likes the OEM shocks, and they are very good for OEM, but the Bilsteins have more rebound dampining, better valving and are more durable.
The main reason I like OEM shocks is because they are VERY reasonably priced for what you get. A complete set can be had for less than 120 bucks.
Grench
SILVER Star
Go OME
I have the 850/863 OME that I got from Slee on one '96 and fully stock on another '96 and fully stock on a '92.
The '91-'92 80s had stiffer springs than the '93-'97 on the US market. I think they may have similar springs to the standard ones in other markets. I suspect that the '93 on they went softer/shorter on the springs to decrease rollovers and to give a cushier ride for the US luxury sport ute market.
So... The OME 0"/0.5" lift on a US spec '96 would -actually- be closer to 1"/1.5". If you're running 33" tires, and not crawling over stuff, this would probably be pretty good.
I got the 850/863 because I have about 1000 lbs of extra stuff hanging off my truck and when I travel it is for a week at a shot. See lotsa gear. When I did my 'figurin' before the lift I measured and had 4.75" from the top of my truck to the top of the garage door. Letsee... 33" tires make it 1" taller than stock... 2.5" HD lift + 1" = 3.5" and I'll still be able to squeak into the garage...
I'm .75" too tall to fit now. With 33" MTR tires and a 2.5" OME HD lift I got right about 5.5" of total height gain. I'm getting ready to remove the roof rack and replace it with stainles steel pop up boat cleats. Does anyone know anything about removing the headliner? Nevermind. I'll search & find or start another thread on that one rather than highjack this thread.
That said, my '96 lifted (grey) handles, corners and takes speed bumps WAY better than the stock '96 (red). However, the soft Mich. tires & suspension on the red one make it MUCH more manageable at speed on washboard gravel roads. The lifted grey with 65 psi (road pressure) on the MTRs makes the back end a little sloppy on the washboards.
So, it all depends on what you're after. Christo (Slee Offroad) was a great help with the parts & install expertise when I did my lift. Hats off to them for customer service too. If I ever get done putting all the stuff I've already bought on my truck, I'll be going back to them to buy some more.
I did the tires before the lift and am wishing I hadn't gotten the heavy load MTRs or in 33". I think I would have been happier with a softer tire in 35". My dream tire is a 250/95 R16. I wish someone made them. 10" wide and 34.7" tall on 16x8 rims.
Never ending. Must continue to upgrade at whatever pace the wallet can stand.
Grench
I have the 850/863 OME that I got from Slee on one '96 and fully stock on another '96 and fully stock on a '92.
The '91-'92 80s had stiffer springs than the '93-'97 on the US market. I think they may have similar springs to the standard ones in other markets. I suspect that the '93 on they went softer/shorter on the springs to decrease rollovers and to give a cushier ride for the US luxury sport ute market.
So... The OME 0"/0.5" lift on a US spec '96 would -actually- be closer to 1"/1.5". If you're running 33" tires, and not crawling over stuff, this would probably be pretty good.
I got the 850/863 because I have about 1000 lbs of extra stuff hanging off my truck and when I travel it is for a week at a shot. See lotsa gear. When I did my 'figurin' before the lift I measured and had 4.75" from the top of my truck to the top of the garage door. Letsee... 33" tires make it 1" taller than stock... 2.5" HD lift + 1" = 3.5" and I'll still be able to squeak into the garage...
I'm .75" too tall to fit now. With 33" MTR tires and a 2.5" OME HD lift I got right about 5.5" of total height gain. I'm getting ready to remove the roof rack and replace it with stainles steel pop up boat cleats. Does anyone know anything about removing the headliner? Nevermind. I'll search & find or start another thread on that one rather than highjack this thread.
That said, my '96 lifted (grey) handles, corners and takes speed bumps WAY better than the stock '96 (red). However, the soft Mich. tires & suspension on the red one make it MUCH more manageable at speed on washboard gravel roads. The lifted grey with 65 psi (road pressure) on the MTRs makes the back end a little sloppy on the washboards.
So, it all depends on what you're after. Christo (Slee Offroad) was a great help with the parts & install expertise when I did my lift. Hats off to them for customer service too. If I ever get done putting all the stuff I've already bought on my truck, I'll be going back to them to buy some more.
I did the tires before the lift and am wishing I hadn't gotten the heavy load MTRs or in 33". I think I would have been happier with a softer tire in 35". My dream tire is a 250/95 R16. I wish someone made them. 10" wide and 34.7" tall on 16x8 rims.
Never ending. Must continue to upgrade at whatever pace the wallet can stand.
Grench
I vote for Cruiserdan's #2 suggestion: OME medium. It's what I did on an LX450 with 95k on it, and it's better in every way compared to the worn out stock Lexus suspension, ride comfort included. It's odd. Firmer ride, yet it's actually less harsh. The 2 1/2" lift just put's it where it ought to have been in the first place for an off-roadable truck. Not radical, but plenty of clearence for anything reasonable.
That and rock sliders, 285 tires, and the home-made spare tire lift make a very effective and practical highway/expeditionion/off-road vehicle.
That and rock sliders, 285 tires, and the home-made spare tire lift make a very effective and practical highway/expeditionion/off-road vehicle.
- Thread starter
- #30
Great tips
Guys:
Thanks for the great tips you provided for this topic. Right now, I have no need for a heavy bumper or sliders other than a bling factor. Delaware is flat. No hills other than what the ant is digging in my back yard right now. I'll post before and after pic's once I get the job done....once I decide on the set up that is!
Dan
Guys:
Thanks for the great tips you provided for this topic. Right now, I have no need for a heavy bumper or sliders other than a bling factor. Delaware is flat. No hills other than what the ant is digging in my back yard right now. I'll post before and after pic's once I get the job done....once I decide on the set up that is!
Dan
