Stock GX470 suspension travel spec (w/ and w/o KDSS comparison) (1 Viewer)

[DRANGED]

I've looked and looked and cannot come up with a definitive, true spec of the suspension travel length of a comparable GX with and without KDSS. There's anecdote to 4" greater travel in the 120 FAQ, and once I found a metric spec for a prado 120 travel length, but I cannot find that again. Does anyone have that official, per Lexus/Toyota, spec for a GX470?

The Prado comparison is helpful but maybe the air rear in the GX makes in not 100% accurate.

I'm looking for the officially, official Lexus/Toyota suspension travel spec.

 

[DRANGED]

bump:

Does anyone know suspension travel specs for GX470 with and without KDSS? The marketing says KDSS has longer travel but how much and what ARE the travel (full droop to full compression; front and rear) specs?

 

[Jstawgn]

It's same travel since they use same spring and shock. The KDSS got more articulation by allowing more swaybar flex at low speed. It's about 4" better articulation if I remember correctly from reading somewhere. Need to test KDSS and normal suspension on standard ramp and calculate the RTI.

 

[GXMac]

This site has a compilation of RTI numbers from Four Wheeler mag showing 470 numbers- 428 without KDSS and 519 with. There's GX460 and LX/ LC numbers in there as well.

 

[Jstawgn]

That quoted info from 4wheeler magazine does not make sense to me. The 5th gen trail 4runner with KDSS and GX460 have less articulation? The rear swaybar on GX460 is 10% thinner than GX470.

I test drive both before deciding on GX470. The 460 feels less sporty and I expect it to have better RTI.

Spare tire clearance bend

• Jstawgn
• Mar 13, 2018

Top is 30 mm GX460 KDSS RSB
Bottom is 33 mm GX470 KDSS RSB

Right side fixed link location differences

• Jstawgn
• Mar 13, 2018

Top is 30 mm GX460 KDSS RSB
Bottom is 33 mm GX470 KDSS RSB

 

[DRANGED]

It's same travel since they use same spring and shock. The KDSS got more articulation by allowing more swaybar flex at low speed. It's about 4" better articulation if I remember correctly from reading somewhere. Need to test KDSS and normal suspension on standard ramp and calculate the RTI.

Ah, yes. Vocab and correct terminology. Thank you.
Yes, I mean articulation.

 

[DRANGED]

It's same travel since they use same spring and shock. The KDSS got more articulation by allowing more swaybar flex at low speed. It's about 4" better articulation if I remember correctly from reading somewhere. Need to test KDSS and normal suspension on standard ramp and calculate the RTI.

bump...

I'd read something somewhere too about the articulation difference and still haven't re-found that or another source. I had found a Prado 120 spec sheet somewhere that said the articulation difference between KDSS and non KDSS, but can't source that reference again. GAH!

I did just stumble across the GXOR beta, which is probably what @Jstawgn was remembering...

Thusfar, that's the best I've come up with.. Do we assume that means 2" moar up and 2" moar down?

I did a CTI test in Moab during jeep safari this spring with Metal Cloack's CTI (corner travel index) table (but forgot to air up airbags, and didn't air tires down to 15 per their "controlled" standard for comparison purposes).

I'm also trying to reference the 4wheeler mag beta (since the above link is dead). A friend suggests a 5th gen non KDSS 4R has a higher RTI score than a KDSS GX470, but I HIGHLY doubt that is correct.

 

[HomersCanyonero]

This video shows you articulation of gx470 with and without kdss on a ramp on stock rigs

 

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@HomersCanyonero
Yeah that's a good one. I like it BUT it is anecdotal specs, the KDSS driver kind of lurches it a bit more than the Non-KDSS driver too. The rear tire is a bit off the ground (A-trac FTW whereas the non-KDSS driver seems to have it right at the point of lost traction.

I just refound this Prado 150 review of KDSS and non-KDSS specs. Deep in the article, it says, "In an off-road situation, where rough ground will have the wheels on one side of the vehicle travelling in opposite directions, fluid can flow between the two cylinders. This relaxes the sway bars for greater wheel travel. On the Prado’s rear axle, KDSS increases wheel travel from 465mm to 565mm (more than 20 per cent)." So there's a spec, about 4" greater travel!

I read an opinion suggesting the 460 rear KDSS has less articulation than the 470 (from the different sized sway bars, but that's just more anecdote...

 

[Jstawgn]

@HomersCanyonero
Yeah that's a good one. I like it BUT it is anecdotal specs, the KDSS driver kind of lurches it a bit more than the Non-KDSS driver too. The rear tire is a bit off the ground (A-trac FTW whereas the non-KDSS driver seems to have it right at the point of lost traction.

You got it backward. The first truck is Non KDSS. Second one is KDSS. Clearly it climb farther without lifting rear tire. The white mark on the ramp can be used as refference.

Suspension Database - Toyota Prado How To's, Technical Information & Reviews

I have compiled a database of manufacturer supplied after market specifications on struts, springs and shocks for the Prado 120 into a single thread. Approximate and measured standard Prado 120 & 150 data is included for comparison purposes. Feel free to post any additional manufacturer...

www.pradopoint.com.au

According to this database 150 series have much longer rear shocks. Which should give more rear axle articulation.

The KDSS rear swaybar diameter is 33 mm on GX470 and 30 mm on GX460. The fixed side swaybar link are mounted more outboard on 150 series GX460 compared to 120 series GX470

Right side fixed link location differences

• Jstawgn
• Mar 13, 2018

Top is 30 mm GX460 KDSS RSB
Bottom is 33 mm GX470 KDSS RSB

Right side fixed link location differences

• Jstawgn
• Mar 13, 2018

Top is 30 mm GX460 KDSS RSB
Bottom is 33 mm GX470 KDSS RSB

 

[Jstawgn]

You got it backwards. The white truck is non KDSS. The blue truck is KDSS. The white dot on the ramp clearly shows the KDSS truck travel higher up the ramp.

 

[GXO]

I don't have kdss and I have better numbers

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

I don't have kdss and I have better numbers

You also don’t have swaybars

 

[DRANGED]

I don't have kdss and I have better numbers

Your experiences are invalidated here!

 

[DRANGED]

You also don’t have swaybars

Or anything stock, save the body.

 

[DRANGED]

You got it backwards. The white truck is non KDSS. The blue truck is KDSS. The white dot on the ramp clearly shows the KDSS truck travel higher up the ramp.

Yeah I had it backwards, you're right.
1 am post in my defense
Yeah the white fit is reference and the KDSS is clearly higher up the ramp. My point is just that it's not as controlled as I'd like with real measurements, BUT it's a great video demonstration of the two.

I didn't know 460s have longer travel shocks in the rear, that's good info. I had seen this RSB comparison pix which is why I'd like a 460's RSB setup, but I think you need the Piston and fixed arm too, as you pointed out, the fixed arm is in a different spot. So does the fixed arm even mount correctly in a 470? I think I've seen the swap and I'm interested for the better spare tire clearance.

All told, I think we're getting some numbers though demonstrating increased about 4" overall travel increase in KDSS vs non, given this link with metrics (if even from prado150)

 

[ADVFamilyHauler]

KDSS life!

 

[DRANGED]

Yes, KDSS life!

 

[Jstawgn]

I didn't know 460s he longer travel shocks in the rear, that's good info. I had seen this RSB comparison pix which is why I'd like a 460's RSB setup, but I think you need the Piston and fixed arm too, as you pointed out, the fixed arm is in a different spot. So does the fixed arm even mount correctly in a 470? I think I've seen the swap and I'm interested for the better spare tire clearance.

It does not increase spare tire clearance. I am the guy that bought 150 series rear KDSS and try it. The fixed mount would need to be moved outboard about 2". The cylinder need to be converted to smaller end or special collar bushing need to be made to be able to clamp properly to the 3 mm smaller tubing.

One thing I like about KDSS is it feels like it better balanced. When one side of front whell compresses the other side of rear are pushed down.

 

[DRANGED]

It does not increase spare tire clearance. I am the guy that bought 150 series rear KDSS and try it. The fixed mount would need to be moved outboard about 2". The cylinder need to be converted to smaller end or special collar bushing need to be made to be able to clamp properly to the 3 mm smaller tubing.

One thing I like about KDSS is it feels like it better balanced. When one side of front whell compresses the other side of rear are pushed down.

Ah, @Jstawgn , thanks for sharing. I've been curious if it worked. It isn't so straight forward then. Making new fixed arm mount and converting piston's bracketry for the smaller bar.... That all makes sense. I like the different bends in the sway bar which seems like would provide more room for the spare, but it's definitely a mod project to accomplish and I trust that's what piqued your interest too.