STOCK bfg ko2s, or other...

[mooneywa]

Looking for some thoughts and considerations on stock size tires. I'd love to go up in size... and throw on a lift, some BP-51s, some armor all around, etc etc - but I want to keep stock for now.

Vehicle use: mostly city/highway, trips to CO/WY area, ranch roads, the gulf coast beach.

I currently have the Dueler H/Ts on that came with the cruiser. They're fine for city/highway, my concern lies in an upcoming trip to Colorado/Wyoming in January. I know they are technically M+S tires so they work with chain laws (ie not requiring chains) in most states, but I don't want to drive all the way out there and have issues with getting stuck (or turned around on a snowy road) in the world's most capable vehicle because I have lousy tires.

I would just pull the trigger on some stock sized KO2s - especially since they are "snowflake certified" or whatever the proper term is, but I'm a little hesitant because I've heard they can pull down the mileage notably as well as added noise. I had the original KOs on a Tahoe and 4Runner in the past and while they had good capability, there was a really big mileage drop off and large increase in road noise on the highway. I've heard anecdotally here on the forum that the noise is much improved with the new KO2s, but that still leaves the unknown of mpg dropoff. Am I really concerned in the long-run about a mile or two per gallon, especially at $1.93/gal? Not really, but I don't want to be wasteful especially if these are overkill.

Other considerations are the Michellin LTX A/T and the BFG Rugged Terrain. They lack the "magic snowflake" and I don't know that they'd really be that much of an increase in performance when the H/Ts aren't worn out.

Open to some thoughts...

 

[Yossarian]

Here is brief article that might give you a little insight.

How to Confirm a Winter Performer

The issue with all AT tires is that to make them tough enough for off-road use those qualities work against them in the snow and ice. The current generation of AT tires are taking advantage of rubber compounds that allow them to perform over a wider range of conditions. The mountain snowflake symbol is supposed to assure better performance in snow and ice than just a standard AT with the M+S label.

That said it's up to the tire manufacturer to submit the tire for testing, and there are certainly tires that perform great in the snow and ice that do not have the mountain snowflake symbol. The stock Michelins that came on my 80 were great in the snow and ice, really just a great all around tire, excluding more difficult off-road use.

After using a tire with the mountain snowflake designation for about a year now it did perform better than an AT in the snow and ice without, but there are to many other variables to say the designation made all the difference. I think the only real solution to get great winter performance and whatever else is on the driver's wish list is another set of wheels and tires.

 

[usmcHOG]

There is a ton of posts in this forum on the KO2's. They are being run by many of us and are an outstanding tire choice. While they were on my LC, i noticed no road noise increase and no milage decrease. You won't be disappointed with them IMHO.

 

[mooneywa]

USMCHOG - lots and lots of info on larger sized KO2s (and other tires in general) which inevitably will be heavier, throw speedo and mileage readings off, and things of that nature, as you well know. Not a lot out there about just a stock for stock swap.

Tire Rack perusal shows an 11lb/tire increase over the H/Ts. I have scoured the internet trying to figure out if someone was able to mathematically quantify the increase in unsprung weight. Somewhere I read that this translated to roughly the equivalent of another 200lbs of weight in the vehicle - so another me. Don't know that carrying another me would really affect the mileage that much, but it's of course hard to say.

 

[Chocolate]

No way I would stick with stock size if going to the cost of buying new tires. Weight/speedo/mileage won't be affected much by going from a 285/60/18 to a 285/65/18 (comparing the same style of tires) for example, but you will at least have more sidewall.

 

[Chocolate]

You can safely run 285/70/17 or 285/65/18 without any other modifications.

 

[M1911]

You can safely run 285/70/17 or 285/65/18 without any other modifications.

Will 285/65/18 fit as a spare under the LC?

 

[LCHardriver_02]

Will 285/65/18 fit as a spare under the LC?

YES. This is the size that I am running on my LX. It will fit on the LC as well.

 

[M1911]

Thanks. I thought that was the case.

 

[chipsterguy]

I'm considering these tires (BFG KO2s 285/65/18) on my LX - installing on 18s - ditching the stock 20s. But it almost seems too good to be true: aggressive tread pattern, amazing performance in all conditions, and no impact on mpg? Is this for real or just a fantasy?

 

[LCHardriver_02]

@chipsterguy - I have these exact tires on my LX. The only correction is that it WILL impact your MPGs, but not by much. I probably saw about a 0.5 MPG loss with these tires, but also note that I am not taking into account the slightly larger size either, but just the digital reading on the display.

 

[mooneywa]

Ok so I've gone up in sizes on tires in the past and generally found it was wasted money. Both in the near term with the purchase of them and the long term with the increased fuel burn. Buuuuuttt... I've never had this vehicle or these tires sizes before so for the sake of discussion, I'm clueless....

I've researched here at mud about bigger size tires, and I get the people like them. I also get generally why people want a bigger tire: increased sidewall, better "look," but it's an extra 4.2lbs/tire over the 60s and an extra 15 lbs total over the H/Ts. Going up a size is another $30/tire as well. Is there something I'm missing here that makes it notably more worthwhile or is this "mainly" an aesthetics thing? Like I'm not going to be crushing Fins And Things on a regular basis, just some snow driving, protection against mesquite, and beach driving - but mostly still good on the pavement.

Btw - I totally see going with notably bigger tires with a lift and whatnot. Just not at that point yet. I also am not above spending more money on aesthetics, I had a full Ranch Hand bumpers and guards on my F-150 and never tried to push a cow. I just don't want to spend more for something antithetical if there's a further penalty in driveablity.

 

[mooneywa]

Aesthetical*

 

[LCHardriver_02]

Going to a larger size tire for me is purely a functional decision. I take my LX when I tow my travel trailer and I like to get out and explore. During those explorations here in Idaho, I see rocks... this is even on "standard" fire service roads, so the larger sidewall was a BIG deal for me.

I actually could have SAVED money if I had gone with the 275 70 18s over the 285 65 18s, but they were not available at the time and I was not completely convinced that I would have no rubbing. Because of market drive, the larger diameter 275s (yes skinnier) would have saved me about $40 per tire and on a set of 5, this is substantial money, but availability drove me more than anything to go with the "smaller" diameter tire, which is fine for everything that I do with my LX.

HTH.

 

[Reckless]

Looking for some thoughts and considerations on stock size tires. I'd love to go up in size... and throw on a lift, some BP-51s, some armor all around, etc etc - but I want to keep stock for now.

Vehicle use: mostly city/highway, trips to CO/WY area, ranch roads, the gulf coast beach.

I currently have the Dueler H/Ts on that came with the cruiser. They're fine for city/highway, my concern lies in an upcoming trip to Colorado/Wyoming in January. I know they are technically M+S tires so they work with chain laws (ie not requiring chains) in most states, but I don't want to drive all the way out there and have issues with getting stuck (or turned around on a snowy road) in the world's most capable vehicle because I have lousy tires.

I would just pull the trigger on some stock sized KO2s - especially since they are "snowflake certified" or whatever the proper term is, but I'm a little hesitant because I've heard they can pull down the mileage notably as well as added noise. I had the original KOs on a Tahoe and 4Runner in the past and while they had good capability, there was a really big mileage drop off and large increase in road noise on the highway. I've heard anecdotally here on the forum that the noise is much improved with the new KO2s, but that still leaves the unknown of mpg dropoff. Am I really concerned in the long-run about a mile or two per gallon, especially at $1.93/gal? Not really, but I don't want to be wasteful especially if these are overkill.

Other considerations are the Michellin LTX A/T and the BFG Rugged Terrain. They lack the "magic snowflake" and I don't know that they'd really be that much of an increase in performance when the H/Ts aren't worn out.

Open to some thoughts...

I recently installed Rock Warrior 17" wheels with KO2 tires. I do love the look of it. Mileage went down close to 2mpg. Also, they didn't perform as well in rain. I used to be able to drive 90 mph in rain with my Cooper Discover All season plus tire. With KO2's I am only able to get to 70mph. I wouldn't change the wheels or tires for anything currently. The car looks soo raw and different that I renamed her Bruiser. It is much more stable now BUT I am not able to get all four tires off the ground as easy as before. Too much weight on the tires for proper lift off.

 

[Markuson]

I recently installed Rock Warrior 17" wheels with KO2 tires. I do love the look of it. Mileage went down close to 2mpg. Also, they didn't perform as well in rain. I used to be able to drive 90 mph in rain with my Cooper Discover All season plus tire. With KO2's I am only able to get to 70mph. I wouldn't change the wheels or tires for anything currently. The car looks soo raw and different that I renamed her Bruiser. It is much more stable now BUT I am not able to get all four tires off the ground as easy as before. Too much weight on the tires for proper lift off.

Not sure I understand what you mean by unable to get to 90 in the rain...and unable to lift off.

What are the limiting factors you are noting?

 

[Reckless]

In my cooper tires I was able to drive 90+mph in the rain with ease. In the KO2s, because they dont have the technology to channel the rain I am not able to comfortably drive 90mph. First night I was able to but after driving 500-800 miles I haven't been able to. The car is extremely planted now. The tires are heavier then the 18" coopers which is a good thing in some scenarios, very predictable ride. There are a number of hills and bumps near my home that when police are not around I punch the gas and get all four wheels as high in the air and try to see how much hang time I can get. With new KO2s the jumps are lower maybe because the wheel/rim combo is 1.4" taller and tires are much heavier/planted. FYI, I have a GPS radar detector in my car and I notice the speedo to be pretty accurate most of the time. Yoda was right about 285/70/17 being more accurate. He is also right that I probably won't bother putting back my 18" coopers.

Regardless, I do highly highly highly recommend the KO2s as well. Mark and Toyoda I truly owe you both a sincere gesture of thanks. I love the tire, it is better then the Michelin LTX M/S2 I have on my LX470. The Michelins may have been better in rain but these KO2s are extremely aggressive and gnarly. I do feel nearly indomitable driving my 'Bruiser.' The tires and rims changed the vehicle tremendously and I am buying another set of RW wheels this week for my future second 200. There is a reason why Toyota recommends this combo. I believe it is the way the LC is meant to be driven. They probably put the 18s on there for mpg reasons so they can sell more LC/LXs. But it really turns into a real land cruiser when you put the RW/KO2s. Every LC owner should consider strongly getting a set of 17 wheels with KO2s as a second set.

Only thing I am going to check is running the tires with less air pressure to see if it changes ride/driving characteristics. If my tires are currently set to 40 PSI it feels pretty firm to me. I don't know if its safe to drive these at 90 mph with a pressure of 30 psi.

 

[mooneywa]

Just out of curiosity, why do you need to drive 90mph anywhere much less in the rain?

 

[gaijin]

Only thing I am going to check is running the tires with less air pressure to see if it changes ride/driving characteristics. If my tires are currently set to 40 PSI it feels pretty firm to me. I don't know if its safe to drive these at 90 mph with a pressure of 30 psi.

90mph @ 30psi =

No, it would not be safe.

I really hope you are kidding ...

40psi Front/Rear is where you need to be.

HTH

 

[linuxgod]

Just out of curiosity, why do you need to drive 90mph anywhere much less in the rain?

Obviously you haven't driven on Chicago highways where a speed limit of 55 means everyone drives 80+