Steering / Suspension issue

[GerhardUngerer]

Good afternoon, guys and gals

I just posted a question to the FJ80 forum regarding some strange steering issues that I am experiencing (Steering / suspension issue(s)). I recently replaced shocks all around and did a bunch of other work (please see link: Steering / suspension issue(s)).

However, she still body-rolls and swerves. And upon deceleration, she likes to swerve to the right.

Help?

 

[AJR]

Get your caster corrected, plates are generally recommended unless you want to buy delta arms. At the same time, LCA bushings, radius arm bushings and panhard bushings.

 

[jfz80]

First question? Did the symptoms appear after all the recent work or been present the whole time ?

Agreed. Your caster is way low as mentioned in the thread. I would at art there. 2-4* I believe is stock range.

Arms are the easy button if you have the wallet to support pushing it. ~$1000

Caster Plates could be done With new OEM rubber for ~$400 200 if you leave your bushings but I know you want min invasive and not sure which do not require trimming. Or opening up the front hole.

Some other possibilities to rule out.

Do you know brake caliper history? When you say replaced brakes and rotors were they on the list? If a caliper is frozen and not clamping then hitting the brakes will be applying only say a front right functioning caliper and thus pulling that direction.

Also Though not likely it would be good practice to check the front wheel bearings and knuckle studs.

17 mm wrench/deep socket on the 4 nuts on bottom of steering knuckles to confirm snug.

Lift front wheels and grab 12/6 o’clock and wiggle to feel for bearing play.

 

[lumbee1]

First question? Did the symptoms appear after all the recent work or been present the whole time ?

Agreed. Your caster is way low as mentioned in the thread. I would at art there. 2-4* I believe is stock range.

Arms are the easy button if you have the wallet to support pushing it. ~$1000

Caster Plates could be done With new OEM rubber for ~$400 200 if you leave your bushings but I know you want min invasive and not sure which do not require trimming. Or opening up the front hole.

Some other possibilities to rule out.

Do you know brake caliper history? When you say replaced brakes and rotors were they on the list? If a caliper is frozen and not clamping then hitting the brakes will be applying only say a front right functioning caliper and thus pulling that direction.

Also Though not likely it would be good practice to check the front wheel bearings and knuckle studs.

17 mm wrench/deep socket on the 4 nuts on bottom of steering knuckles to confirm snug.

Lift front wheels and grab 12/6 o’clock and wiggle to feel for bearing play.

What he said.

 

[SFROMAN]

Tire balance and rotation. I am super guilty of not doing this preventative maintenance and can make a hell of a difference in your vehicle’s performance.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

I just realized that I never answered these questions

First question? Did the symptoms appear after all the recent work or been present the whole time ?

The wandering was there before. That is why I did the work.

Do you know brake caliper history? When you say replaced brakes and rotors were they on the list? If a caliper is frozen and not clamping then hitting the brakes will be applying only say a front right functioning caliper and thus pulling that direction.

Good question. However, the darting to the right is not when I hit the brakes. It is just when I let off the gas. When I hit the gas again, she seems to straighten out. I am a pilot, so I am used to torque steering, but not in a vehicle.

Also Though not likely it would be good practice to check the front wheel bearings and knuckle studs.

17 mm wrench/deep socket on the 4 nuts on bottom of steering knuckles to confirm snug.

Lift front wheels and grab 12/6 o’clock and wiggle to feel for bearing play.

Checked these. They are good.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

Tire balance and rotation. I am super guilty of not doing this preventative maintenance and can make a hell of a difference in your vehicle’s performance.

Did that. When I drove off from the tire place, after having it balanced and rotated, I decelerated for a turn and that is the first time I felt the body rolling swerves. I have since had the alignment done and it showed caster off. But that must have been off all along.

 

[roadstr6]

Any chance your truck has a mechanical locker in the rear diff? I assume not, but if it does, it will tend to steer right off throttle and left on throttle. Regardless, fix your caster. Difference in drivability will be night and day.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

Any chance your truck has a mechanical locker in the rear diff? I assume not, but if it does, it will tend to steer right off throttle and left on throttle. Regardless, fix your caster. Difference in drivability will be night and day.

No on the mechanical locker.

I am working on a solution to caster. I ordered a drop-box. The order was cancelled. I ordered plates. The order was cancelled. Now working on getting offset bushings to see how that would work.

I am trying .......

 

[4LowandSlow]

Kind of agreeing with everyone with the caster. its gonna be super loose on the road. But another point that Jason brought up about the brake calipers, does it feel kinda sluggish? your front right caliper could be sticking or some corrosion stopping it from going in all the way thus having pressure on the right side to pull it that way no matter what and when you press the brake the pressure will not be equal therefor still pulling it to the right. Unlikely but still a possibility.

 

[izzyandsue]

Offset bushings worked great on my 80, tracks straight. I am guessing you have the anti-sway bars connected (not like the kids do on trail rigs) and the rubber on those are good?

 

[SFROMAN]

Here is the photo of both OME offset bushings and stock style offset bushings.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

Kind of agreeing with everyone with the caster. its gonna be super loose on the road. But another point that Jason brought up about the brake calipers, does it feel kinda sluggish? your front right caliper could be sticking or some corrosion stopping it from going in all the way thus having pressure on the right side to pull it that way no matter what and when you press the brake the pressure will not be equal therefor still pulling it to the right. Unlikely but still a possibility.

Working on caster solution. Calipers looked fine when I changed the brakes. No dragging.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

I seem to be closing in on the issues. I am going to buy those OME bushings from SFROMAN and see how they do.

I also found something else very interesting tonight. I measured the space between the wheel and the frame on the back and they are NOT even. DS there is 12 3/4 inch between the wheel and the frame. On the PS there is 13 1/2 inch. When I stand in front of the truck, I can see the PS wheel stick out a bit more. Could this be why it has the wiggles (other than caster)?

 

[roadstr6]

I seem to be closing in on the issues. I am going to buy those OME bushings from SFROMAN and see how they do.

I also found something else very interesting tonight. I measured the space between the wheel and the frame on the back and they are NOT even. DS there is 12 3/4 inch between the wheel and the frame. On the PS there is 13 1/2 inch. When I stand in front of the truck, I can see the PS wheel stick out a bit more. Could this be why it has the wiggles (other than caster)?

Normal on a mildly lifted truck with a non adjustable factory track bar. That’s not your problem.

 

[GerhardUngerer]

Normal on a mildly lifted truck with a non adjustable factory track bar. That’s not your problem.

So this will not contribute to the torque steering?

 

[roadstr6]

So this will not contribute to the torque steering?

Not really. It may affect it a tiny amount, but I'd wager that most lifted 80's on the road (including mine) have the same issue with the axles being uncentered and they go down the road just fine. If you look closely, you will find that your front axle is not centered either. In all honesty, neither of the axles are totally centered from the factory. You can purchase adjustable track bars for these trucks to re-center the axles. Also, Delta Vehicle Systems makes a rear track bar bracket to relocate the track bar up higher on the axle, closer to parallel. These are expensive options and, while they do help, they are not high on the bang-for-the-buck scale. Caster plates, fresh bushings, sway bar drop brackets and sway bar bushings are all cheap and very effective. I prefer to start with cheap and effective solutions before spending big money on parts that may or may not help. Your problems are related to caster. Fix that and you can fine tune everything else with adjustable track bars, brackets, etc as needed. Until you get your caster in check, everything else is going to feel like a total waste of money.

I have not had good results with the offset bushings. They weren't enough to correct the caster on my truck. Based on your alignment numbers from your other thread, the bushings are not going to get you where you want to be either. You are -1.6 and -1.8 now. The OME bushings typically add 2 - 2.5 degrees of positive caster on a lifted truck. Install the bushings and you will be at best +.9 degrees. At worst, you will be at +.2 degrees. That is not enough. You want to be in the +2.0 to +4.0 range to be in spec. Therefore, you need to correct caster by 3.6 - 5.8 degrees to make the truck drive well. The closer you can get to a caster reading of +4 degrees, the better your truck will handle. The Caster plates or the old school "washer mod" are the best ways to fix caster. These methods allow you to keep your factory rubber bushings, which are far superior to the urethane offset bushings. Plates and washer mods do require you to cut your axle mount points. You need to decide what is more important, uncut axle brackets or a vehicle that drives safely on the road. You can't have both unless you go back to stock height springs or pony up for the really expensive Delta caster arms.

I have a set of factory arms here with offset bushings already installed. I'll trade you even for your arms with factory bushings. Just swap them out as-is, or press in the OME yellow offset bushings into these arms I have if you want to use those. I just hate to see you go to the trouble of pressing out factory bushings and presssing in inferior bushings in their place, only to realize that the offset bushings didn't fix your problem. Use my already molested arms. I'll keep your unmolested ones. If you decide to do plates later (and you will), we can trade back.