steering knuckle rebuild - brake disc hub wheel bearing preload issue

[ikud]

Hi all,

Thank you for being so helpful!

So, what I figured. ( English is not my first language or even second language, so sorry in advance)

- The passenger's side dust seal was slightly damaged; I did not see it the first time. It was preventing the hub from sitting correctly.
- Go with OEM oil seals (or any other parts) if the budget allows it.
- do not use an Amazon fish scale. So, after taking everything apart multiple times, I got so tired that I decided enough. I could not understand why I could spin the hub relatively easily with my hands, and the fish scale gave me 30+ lb reading all the time. I then put a 10 lbs weight plate on the scale, and it showed me ~20 lbs., and every time I lift the 10 lbs weight plate, it would give me a different reading. So, no more fish scale. If it feels fine, don't have a play, and you can spin it with your hands, it should be fine.

I also replaced calipers, tie rods, coil springs, and many more. I have to find decent shop to get wheel alignment, and in a few months (or days ) I will write an update.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Hi all,

Thank you for being so helpful!

So, what I figured. ( English is not my first language or even second language, so sorry in advance)

- The passenger's side dust seal was slightly damaged; I did not see it the first time. It was preventing the hub from sitting correctly.
- Go with OEM oil seals (or any other parts) if the budget allows it.
- do not use an Amazon fish scale. So, after taking everything apart multiple times, I got so tired that I decided enough. I could not understand why I could spin the hub relatively easily with my hands, and the fish scale gave me 30+ lb reading all the time. I then put a 10 lbs weight plate on the scale, and it showed me ~20 lbs., and every time I lift the 10 lbs weight plate, it would give me a different reading. So, no more fish scale. If it feels fine, don't have a play, and you can spin it with your hands, it should be fine.

I also replaced calipers, tie rods, coil springs, and many more. I have to find decent shop to get wheel alignment, and in a few months (or days ) I will write an update.

Don't use the fish scale at all.
Torque inner bearing adjuster nut to 30lb, rotate the hub a few times both directions, retorque to 30lb, rotate hub again, retorque to 30lb
Then install the locking tab, then the outer lock nut, then torque it to 45lb, then bend locking tab.

Check for play after 1-2k miles or km

 

[Pascoscout]

Don't use the fish scale at all.
Torque inner bearing adjuster nut to 30lb, rotate the hub a few times both directions, retorque to 30lb, rotate hub again, retorque to 30lb
Then install the locking tab, then the outer lock nut, then torque it to 45lb, then bend locking tab.

Check for play after 1-2k miles or km

Inch-lb I assume?

 

[mudgudgeon]

Inch-lb I assume?

Ft-lb

 

[manofthewoods]

Don't use the fish scale at all.
Torque inner bearing adjuster nut to 30lb, rotate the hub a few times both directions, retorque to 30lb, rotate hub again, retorque to 30lb
Then install the locking tab, then the outer lock nut, then torque it to 45lb, then bend locking tab.

Check for play after 1-2k miles or km

Good advice above.
I'm old school, so I do it basically the same way Otramm does it. 50k miles and still rolling.

 

[TheRareElement]

Don't use the fish scale at all.
Torque inner bearing adjuster nut to 30lb, rotate the hub a few times both directions, retorque to 30lb, rotate hub again, retorque to 30lb
Then install the locking tab, then the outer lock nut, then torque it to 45lb, then bend locking tab.

Check for play after 1-2k miles or km

Appologies for waking this thread up but....
2 FSM's I referred to about adjusting pre-load say :
- Bearing Adjusting Nut torque to 43 ft.lb
- Turn wheel back & forth a few times.
- Loosen nut till it can be turned by hand.
- Retorque to 43 ft.lb
- Loosen nut till it can be turned by hand.
- Retorque to 48 in.lb
- Install lock washer & lock nut.
- Torque lock nut to 65 ft.lb..
- Secure lock nut by bending lock washer tabs.
So is the final torque 48 in.lb ? and the 43 ft.lb is just to set in all components properly ?
However, there was a confirmation that torquing is in ft.lb not in.lb !
Is there a discrepancy here, a typo in the FSM or have I missed something and consequently confused ?
Appreciate any clarification, tkx.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Appologies for waking this thread up but....
2 FSM's I referred to about adjusting pre-load say :
- Bearing Adjusting Nut torque to 43 ft.lb
- Turn wheel back & forth a few times.
- Loosen nut till it can be turned by hand.
- Retorque to 43 ft.lb
- Loosen nut till it can be turned by hand.
- Retorque to 48 in.lb
- Install lock washer & lock nut.
- Torque lock nut to 65 ft.lb..
- Secure lock nut by bending lock washer tabs.
So is the final torque 48 in.lb ? and the 43 ft.lb is just to set in all components properly ?
However, there was a confirmation that torquing is in ft.lb not in.lb !
Is there a discrepancy here, a typo in the FSM or have I missed something and consequently confused ?
Appreciate any clarification, tkx.

There is no typo. 48in.lb is not a typo.
This is what Toyota intended. Experience of many landcruiser owners is that the FSM method is flawed. Follow the FSM at your own risk on this.

You can easiily turn the hub by hand with the first lock nut torqued to 43ft.lb, I don't think being able to turn the hub by hand gives an indication of correct preload.

The bearings in the 80s are heavy duty and overbuilt. You're not going to hurt them by torquing them more than what the FSM says. Flipside to that is, run them loose, bearings and spindles will wear prematurely.

FWIW, in comparison to the 80s hubs, my F150 has puny, sealed for life, non-adjustable front hub bearings. I have been chasing a front end shake that i think is purely down to barely adequate and non-preloaded bearings.
I think I'm going to have to throw $350/ side hubs in it again in less than a year, or put up with it

 

[TheRareElement]

Ft-lb

I was just confused, there was no mention in your post about in.lb !
30-30-30 ft.lb
Anyway, I get the point, thanks.
My babe's got +675 K Km, have had her for 28 years, still running like intended and I wouldn't dream of driving anything else in whatever lifetime I have left.
There is a certain unrivaled pride that goes with driving an 80 series.
FSM's have always been a refernce but in the end I rely mostly on the advice and experiences of fellow off-roader's and experinced master mechanics.

 

[mudgudgeon]

I was just confused, there was no mention in your post about in.lb !
30-30-30 ft.lb
Anyway, I get the point, thanks.
My babe's got +675 K Km, have had her for 28 years, still running like intended and I wouldn't dream of driving anything else in whatever lifetime I have left.
There is a certain unrivaled pride that goes with driving an 80 series.
FSM's have always been a refernce but in the end I rely mostly on the advice and experiences of fellow off-roader's and experinced master mechanics.

You asked about the possibility of in.lb as used in the FSM being a typo. In the FSM, it is not a typo. Toyota want you to use in.lb as described.

Is it effective? Is it adequate? My opinion no.

My experience with my own vehicles, the FSM process for adjusting wheel bearings has proved to be lacking. The alternative method described in this thread does not use in.lb

 

[TheRareElement]

OK,tkx.

 

[jonheld]

You asked about the possibility of in.lb as used in the FSM being a typo. In the FSM, it is not a typo. Toyota want you to use in.lb as described.

Is it effective? Is it adequate? My opinion no.

My experience with my own vehicles, the FSM process for adjusting wheel bearings has proved to be lacking. The alternative method described in this thread does not use in.lb

Also keep in mind that some of the basic mechanicals in the FSM goes as far back as the 1958 FJ40. This is where the "fish scale" nonsense originated.
Personally, I use the 25 ft/lb inner and 47 ft/lb outer. Either way, significantly tighter than the FSM spec.

Another thing to consider, most hub kits supplied by vendors do not include new thrust washers. 90214-42030. Used ones typically have grooves facing the outer bearing due to low preload. These should be replaced and should be included with every hub kit IMO.

 

[sjpitts]

Here is my thread where I dealt with this problem 10 years ago.

Using a fish scale to set wheel bearing preload - https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/using-a-fish-scale-to-set-wheel-bearing-preload.777976/

The TLDR reason is that after trying the book version I changed and went with the Tools(TM) technique which is much simpler.

RIP Kevin.

 

[knuckle47]

As mentioned, the older wheel bearing method - fish scale test may have been to simply provide a repeatable methodology with the technique available. That way, anyone doing it got the same result….my 2 cents

 

[mudgudgeon]

That way, anyone doing it got the same result….

There in lies the problem. Consistent results aren't attainable with the FSM.

Unless you call consistently loose wheel bearings a 'result'

 

[knuckle47]

If that is truly the case….then yes….but maybe not a good result…but poorly consistent..I dont disagree