Curiosity overcame laziness huh?
Steering Gear Slop
- Thread starter Darwood
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Curiosity overcame laziness huh?
The Dodge uses a different style than anyone else's I know - see attached pic.
I had a '77 & 2 '79's. Sure was easy to pack the front wheel bearings, though - you used a grease gun !
I think the play on my LC w/ 174K is around an inch - I wonder if doing a wheel bearing repack & adjust would help any.
Britt
That's right I replaced that whole shaft and the rag joint... Duh. Forgot about that.
- Thread starter
- #43
You have a good mechanical advantage at the wheel over the shaft components. Off the top of my head, a way to check for play would be to lock the shaft at the box, perhaps with some Vice-grips (not often I think of a good use for those) and see if the steering wheel moves at all.
In any case, I'd love to see the results of a similar poll, with the standard for measuring spelled out. Too much ambiguity for me to trust the 8 responses of less than 1 inch of play. When I was looking into this for a friend, it took me some trial and error to come up with a reliable and repeatable way to measure the slop, and if asked before I had done this I would have said my wife's truck had no slop. I don't believe it's possible for any car to have zero play at the steering wheel, but I might be wrong.
-Spike
Do you have any suggestions on a better standard for measurement? Unfortunately this was the best I could think of and you are right it is pretty subjective.
Also yeah there will always be some sort of slop. My Subaru even has slop with its rack and pinion steering, but most of that can be attributed to the bushings holding the steering rack to the frame.
Yep, I hate not knowing. Plus, the possibility of a rag joint gave me hope for improvement on my rigs, but the damn thing looks like it just came out of a parts bag. I'll probably try checking it for play someday, but I'm not holding out much hope.
Many years ago I had a Toyota pickup, and made the mistake of looking at the rag joint one day, away from home. I about s*** myself, and after much self-debate I drove it home very slowly and didn't drive it again until I had replaced the joint. It was shredded. I now know that the metal parts wouldn't be able to completely let go on a whim, but at 17 I didn't grasp that.
-Spike
Many years ago I had a Toyota pickup, and made the mistake of looking at the rag joint one day, away from home. I about s*** myself, and after much self-debate I drove it home very slowly and didn't drive it again until I had replaced the joint. It was shredded. I now know that the metal parts wouldn't be able to completely let go on a whim, but at 17 I didn't grasp that.
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #45
Yeah I think CDan's probably only ever sold one... and that was to me. ;p
That standard works for me, but it was posted well after the poll started. To clarify, with the engine off, wheels straight, steering unlocked, how much can the wheel move with no resistance whatsoever. It's still difficult to come up with an accurate measurement, I braced an object against something (to keep me from inadvertantly moving it) and held it close to a reference point on the wheel, and still 'about an inch' is as accurate as I can be. Resistance builds slowly, so it's hard to pinpoint exactly where it starts.
Even this 'standard' only tells us how much play we have before the pitman arm, it gets even harder to determine how much play the tie rod ends, wheel bearings, and other components add to the mix. Add everything together, and the only real measurement is 'I like how this feels' or 'I don't like how this feels' when driving.
In short, you're screwed.
You're gonna end up buying Dan a doggie condo before you're satisfied that your system is as good as it can get.-Spike
You might also try the same method but with the wheels turned- comparing the two measurements might give you an idea if you have a wear spot where the shaft normally rides.
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #48
In short, you're screwed.
-Spike
Yeah pretty much. If I haven't already bought a Dan a doggie condo I would be surprised. I'm now thinking about an addition to that condo.
With the wheels turned I would expect some slack at the box based on how the thing works, but you are right if I compare the two it should give a good indication of wear. If the slop is greater at the wheels straight I would have some serious wear, however if slop is greater with the wheels turned then everything would be as expected with little wear.
Derek,
The 80 has recirc ball steering.
The 100,GX,4R,Taco,FJC have rack & pinion steering.
Recirc ball is going to be looser than any modern car or suv as almost all use rack & pinion.
Having said that, I know you are comparing your steering to other 80's.
could you have some slop in your wheel bearings? tre's are good... reman'd box... joint at the firewall...? Spike seems to have some good thoughts post #28
good luck derek!
The 80 has recirc ball steering.
The 100,GX,4R,Taco,FJC have rack & pinion steering.
Recirc ball is going to be looser than any modern car or suv as almost all use rack & pinion.
Having said that, I know you are comparing your steering to other 80's.
could you have some slop in your wheel bearings? tre's are good... reman'd box... joint at the firewall...? Spike seems to have some good thoughts post #28
good luck derek!
Can you post that part number? I replaced the dust seal about 1 year ago because of slop and noise in the steering and it has been tight since. Part was about 15 bucks if i remember where the shaft goes thru the firewall.
- Thread starter
- #51
Funny thing is the Taco steering annoyed me as well. The bushings for the steering rack would wear out and were too soft. The rack liked to move around.
I checked the wheel bearings a couple days ago and they were fine. Next is the TREs. When I first installed the remanned box I had my sister in law turn the steering wheel. I could see the input shaft at the box turn, but the pitman arm didn't do anything.
Also driving tonight I think I've discovered the thing that really bugs me the most. I can't seem to center my steering wheel. The center changes based on the road and sometimes it changes just because. This box has always been like this. I'll adjust to drag link to center the steering wheel one direction and then the next week I have to adjust it the other way to center it. Repeat ad nauseum. This is with just normal street driving. It's making me go insane.
Cruiserdrew
On the way there
Derek-Just an observation that may have nothing to do with your situation. My steering has been getting "looser" over the last year or two. The deterioration was slow enough, that it never really got critical and bothered me. Like you, I did not like side walls on the freeway.
Three weeks ago, I was getting a bit of minor death wobble coming home from Coyote Flats. It turned out that the front pan hard upper bushing was going bad. It was subtle, but when you pushed the front end sideways, it gave a tiny clunk. On inspection it looked normal, but the added movement could be seen.
After replacing the bushing, it's like a new truck. The steering is super tight with no appreciable slop. My TREs were new a year or two ago, and everything else is stock. Not saying that's your problem, but it was an unexpected source of slop in mine, and the fix was weirdly effective.
Just for reference, I used the Slee bushing kit with the blue polyurethane.
Three weeks ago, I was getting a bit of minor death wobble coming home from Coyote Flats. It turned out that the front pan hard upper bushing was going bad. It was subtle, but when you pushed the front end sideways, it gave a tiny clunk. On inspection it looked normal, but the added movement could be seen.
After replacing the bushing, it's like a new truck. The steering is super tight with no appreciable slop. My TREs were new a year or two ago, and everything else is stock. Not saying that's your problem, but it was an unexpected source of slop in mine, and the fix was weirdly effective.
Just for reference, I used the Slee bushing kit with the blue polyurethane.
Funny thing is the Taco steering annoyed me as well. The bushings for the steering rack would wear out and were too soft. The rack liked to move around.
I checked the wheel bearings a couple days ago and they were fine. Next is the TREs. When I first installed the remanned box I had my sister in law turn the steering wheel. I could see the input shaft at the box turn, but the pitman arm didn't do anything.
Also driving tonight I think I've discovered the thing that really bugs me the most. I can't seem to center my steering wheel. The center changes based on the road and sometimes it changes just because. This box has always been like this. I'll adjust to drag link to center the steering wheel one direction and then the next week I have to adjust it the other way to center it. Repeat ad nauseum. This is with just normal street driving. It's making me go insane.
I may have a solution somewhat to the centering issue. Some of that is road related and can't be helped and some can be improved with a self centering steering stabilizer. I picked one up for the 80 but havn't installed it yet. I'm gonna do a write-up and post details here on Mud whether it's good or bad. Basically it's an adjustable coil-over coilover shock setup that replaces your stock steering stabilizer, and once you get it aligned (shock not the truck) the spring pressure returns the wheels to center or assists on re-centering. The one I picked up I imported from Australia cause I couldn't find anything like it here in the US. Maybe the Aussie guys can chime in on this style steering stabilizer?
Teaser pic.
- Thread starter
- #54
Interesting thought. I'll have to check that out while I check the TREs. How old were the bushings in your panhard arm?
I'm curious to see your review. I've seen those 4 Way stabilizers before and have heard mixed reviews. It's my impression that that they were created to counter the caster issue. If you don't have caster to get the wheels back to center just force them with a spring.
I think you're gonna be disappointed with the self-centering stabilizer. The tires center on Derek's truck, but not the steering wheel, and that stabilizer isn't gonna do anything for that. As he mentioned, my impression is they are used to combat bad caster.
-Spike
-Spike
- Thread starter
- #57
I just had a late thought. If the panhard bushing is worn then yes that would most certainly explain the centering issue. A moving panhard would effectively shorten or lengthen the drag link in relation to the knuckle. Hmm
I probably will. I log a lot of miles on my rig so I will know pretty quickly. I have all stock suspension just well worn so we'll see.
- Thread starter
- #59
I got to finally check the steering linkages out. It seems like everything is fine. There was no real noticeable unwanted movement. As the input shaft turned the pitman armed turned and everything else moved. It was almost like the ratio at the box is too small though. I didn't see the panhard arm move side to side either. It stayed in place. 
I got to finally check the steering linkages out. It seems like everything is fine. There was no real noticeable unwanted movement. As the input shaft turned the pitman armed turned and everything else moved. It was almost like the ratio at the box is too small though. I didn't see the panhard arm move side to side either. It stayed in place.
Was it on jack stands or the ground?
