Starting problem...no ticking, no nothing....dead as a doornail

[lilbluebaby]

Hi all - i'm new to the list so please bear with me while i learn the ins and outs of how y'all communicate.

My 1984 FJ60 is not starting....not clicking, groaning, nothing. THe alternator is good and the starter is good. I can jump start it and it runs great, but once I shut the car down, it will not start again without a jump. As I said - no clicking, no nothing. In addition, none of the electrics work at all when the ignition is in the ACC position....not the dome light, radio, ac, etc. etc. The dome light doesn't even dim.

The charging system has been tested and appears to be fine. So i'm kind of at a loss here. My instincts are leading me to the fusible link along the battery cable at this point....but, aside from that, we start getting further into electrics....and well....we get further into electrics.....

If anyone has any input, I would really appreciate it.

Thanks -- Leah

 

[archie]

It could be the ignition switch which is the right behind the ignition key tumbler. i had that problem with another car and it drove me crazy because i thought it was the starter all along.
On my 1988 fj62, the starter tested ok when I tested it at Autozone. But the problem seemed to be symtomatic of a weak battery or bad charging system. I did a starter rebuild for 15 bucks and it still works like new after 3 months.
You can click on my name and look at the previous posts which I recently did. It was about a few months ago.
Welcome!

 

[erfworm]

Have you checked the battery voltage, could just have a bad battery, while your there check, clean, and tighten the battery terminals. even if your alternator is working, if the battery can no longer hold a charge or if the charge can't get to the battery (corroded/loose terminals) the car won't start unless jumped :using someone elses battery). I would start there.

 

[lilbluebaby]

Battery is brand new....forgot to mention that. Archie, thanks for your response. Wondering if there is an ignition switch problem, wouldn't the truck still not start in any situation including using a jump? Starts up like a charm with a jump.

 

[archie]

found it so you don't have to search. https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=88906 Read up and my saga while you wait for more expert advice. Don't forget to try looking at the search function using keywords such as starter plunger, fusible link, starter contacts, etc.
BTW,Does the starter sometimes crank slowly as if it is not getting enough juice?
Have you tried bumping the starter while somebody turns the ignition?

 

[archie]

the jump, I assume, is not directly into the starter. Have you tried to take the starter out. If you haven't try spraying some penetrating oil on the bolts to make it a little easier to remove later. If it's like mine it should be two bolts only.
here's what mine looked like when it started to fail me. The photo is not mine https://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=91501

 

[erfworm]

Even when jumpstarting you are still running through the fusible link so if it works then, I would expect its o.k.. But if you want to check it, look for melted wire, it is my understanding that thats what a fusible link is: a "fuse" of wire that will melt before the rest of your wiring harness does.

Brand new batteries have also been known to be bad.

 

[lilbluebaby]

Starter is new and starts the vehicle like a charm. I'm sure there are no problems with battery, starter and alternator. It just won't start without a jump - once it's going, it's fine...

 

[erfworm]

When you start a vehicle by jumpstarting, you are essentially just using the jumping vehicle's battery to start your vehicle. Do you have a volt meter?

 

[lilbluebaby]

I don't have a voltmeter, but i could jump the blasted thing and go down to autozone and have it tested.

 

[erfworm]

O.K. relax, you asked for help.

 

[lilbluebaby]

Sorry - wasn't aiming that at you. Gee - not a good way for me to get started on the list. Electrical problems are such a pain. Just have exhausted all the obvious routes, except for testing a brand new battery.

 

[erfworm]

I understand your frustration. I bought a brand new optima red top from costco once, brought it home and it held a charge for two days, then went tits up. They gave me a new one and its been in there for three years. So it happens however frustrating it may be. I have also had similar experiences with alternators and starters from parts stores. It sucks but it happens. Do you have aanother vehicle nearby? If so you could pull its battery and try it, save you the trip to auto zone. If it starts with the other battery I would take the other one back to have tested. We're all here to help.

 

[lovetoski]

Key to this kind of thing is to eliminate as many "simple" things as possible.

Starter - must be good, since it works when you jump start the truck.
Battery - new, but suspect.
Ignition - suspect?
Wiring - suspect.

Re the ignition and jumping...when you jump the truck, do you simply connect jumper cables to the battery, then start "normally"? If so, the ignition switch is good, so it can be ruled out.

Suggest (as others have) to check the battery.

Also, make sure to check ALL the POS and NEG connections related to the battery and starter. The starter draws huge amps. If there is corrosion, this introduces resistance into the circut, which requires more amps to overcome. More amps comes from TWO batteries...

A simple (and free) thing to do is to remove and clean every electrical connection to/from the battery and starter. Also check the condition of the battery/starter cable - is it damaged in any way? Do you have good grounds? Should be a ground from battery to body, battery to engine, and starter to frame.

 

[Pluton]

Just a note: the fusible links can be bad and look fine...no obvious melting, etc.
A volt/ohmmeter(VOM) could be real handy...check volts, and continuity on fusible links.

 

[archie]

BTW,Does the starter sometimes crank slowly as if it is not getting enough juice?
Have you tried bumping the starter while somebody turns the ignition?


you still didn't answer those questions. From my experience, with my 62, I ruled out the starter because it cranked sometimes and when taken out tested ok.
But the plungers and contacts were marginally bad thus sometimes not providing enough current to crank,leading me to believe it was battery or cable related. Changing the plunger and contacts fixed it. The guy over the counter at the starter/alternator shop also confirmed this and promptly produced the exact contacts and plunger for 15 bucks.

 

[lilbluebaby]

Regarding the starter, there is no movement at all. Just one day it stopped starting without a jump. It never clicks, sticks, groans, moves, etc. etc. I am going to investigate the fusible link, but from a logic perspective, it would seem to me that if a jump works and everything in the car works, then a bad fusible link would mean the car doesn't start at all. Same with the ignition switch, if the car starts and runs with a jump, wouldn't it go to follow that a faulty ignition switch would cause the car not to start regardless of where the juice comes from.

Please correct me if my logic is wrong or if logic doesn't prevail in electrical probs.;p

-- L

 

[archie]

You still didn't answer the question! Did you try bumping the starter while somebody tried turning the ignition switch?

My theory is when you jump it it gives it just enough power to give the marginally worn plunger enough juice to crank the engine.

 

[jzmq]

Key to this kind of thing is to eliminate as many "simple" things as possible.

Starter - must be good, since it works when you jump start the truck.
Battery - new, but suspect.
Ignition - suspect?
Wiring - suspect.

Re the ignition and jumping...when you jump the truck, do you simply connect jumper cables to the battery, then start "normally"? If so, the ignition switch is good, so it can be ruled out.

Suggest (as others have) to check the battery.

Also, make sure to check ALL the POS and NEG connections related to the battery and starter. The starter draws huge amps. If there is corrosion, this introduces resistance into the circut, which requires more amps to overcome. More amps comes from TWO batteries...

A simple (and free) thing to do is to remove and clean every electrical connection to/from the battery and starter. Also check the condition of the battery/starter cable - is it damaged in any way? Do you have good grounds? Should be a ground from battery to body, battery to engine, and starter to frame.

I agree with lovetoski about the starter being good and most likely ignition, even the wiring should be good since you can start it with a jump. I would bet it's the battery not holding a charge, since a jump is only adding more power to the equation. Instead of jumping the truck, swap the batteries and see if that works. That seems to be the least amount of work and the best place to start.

John

 

[archie]

My starter was working on the truck and tested good when taken out of the truck. Only when I changed the plunger and contacts did all my starting problems go away.