Starter reliability on 4.7L V-8 and access to it. (1 Viewer)

[ATBScott]

Hi - I have been searching the 120 and 100 series forums and not able to find anything on this...

As I mentioned in my post in the 120 series forum, I am a newbie here and shopping for a 4Runner, GX470 or LX470 (450 even...?)

I've learned that the starter motor on the 4.7L V-8 is nestled in under the intake manifold, and a replacement or fix on this is an all-day (or longer) job to replace if the started fails. What I am wondering is, how many of you out there have had issues with the starter on your GX or V-8 4Runner? If you have or haven't - how many miles do you have on your rig? This is making me wonder if I should focus on the 4Runner with the 4.0 V-6... Or an LX450/Cruiser with the straight 6? I know all vehicles have some Achilles heel in their make-up, but I wonder about this... Installing the starter in the engine seems both brilliant and idiotic. Takes up normally unoccupied space, probably much better protected from water/mud, but inaccessible - can't give it a rap with a hammer or wrench in the field if the solenoid won't trip, etc... not to mention replacing it. (I also posted this same question in the 120 series forum...)

 

[FxFormat]

They will go out between 150-300K. I can replace the starter in 4 hours or less, not a bad job, just need to superman plank to reach everything.

 

[Mike NXP]

The location of the starter on a motor should not be a buying factor. I get what your saying, but if that's all your worried about just buy the cruiser, replace the starter, and know it will be good for a while.

190k miles, original starter, no signs of failing yet

 

[Trunk Monkey]

Keep in mind you're in the microcosm of Mud where people come to look for solutions for problems, so with just this site as a frame of reference you're going to have a very skewed perspective on what's a problem area for these trucks. So for how many, you're not going to get a good answer - everyone' that's reported they've changed it has, everyone else on here maybe hasn't. And the thousands of trucks not on Mud, same thing.

 

[BullElk]

I recently had the starter replaced on my daughters LX. It was the original starter and only had 345k miles on it. It cost me $200 labor to replace it.

The starter is by far not a reason to avoid buying a LC or LX.

 

[cjmoon]

I’ve got 2 100’s both over 250k both original. Have a 3rd parts rig with 335k. Haven’t got down to see if it’s original. If that sort of in reliability is a drawback don’t get an engine with a timing belt... the 4.0 with a chain might be more your style.

 

[ATBScott]

Thanks for the responses - that makes me feel a little better. I'm a decent mechanic who would rather spend time driving or riding my bike/moto or hiking than working on something tho. Hearing that the job can be done in 4 hours makes me think it's a one-day for my first time then.... The comment about the timing chain is a real one tho - I have been looking at 4Runners and GX470 as well, and the 4Runner would definitely be a 4.0 in the choice because of that. (Yeah, I know about the head gasket issue). Like I said - every vehicle has it's Achilles. My damn little daily driver 2005 CR-V has one too - not good off-road. Other than that, maybe the best vehicle I've owned otherwise. But I want to go four-wheeling and Toyota products are what I am shopping. Kinda wonder why they chose a timing belt in their motors over a chain - at least most of them. Something about the LC and LX appeals to me a little bit more, though the smaller rig may be better on some tight trails. I'm not going to be carrying more than me and my GF or a buddy (she's not too big on camping...).

 

[Skidoo]

When I did my timing belt, etc at 120K miles, I replaced water pump, starter and had fuel injectors cleaned.
Starter looked good but seemed like a good time to get in there. With my current usage it will work out to about 12 years between t-belt changes so doing some extra preventive replacement seems like cheap insurance. Have read of a number of folks doing this at T-belt time.

 

[J1000]

I haven't done it yet but it doesn't look that hard really. Could use the job to clean or replace the injectors and also install a black plastic intake if it's the older 4.7 or use the opportunity to disable the air injection pump on a newer 06/07. Also a good time to clean any carbon from the intakes/valves.

 

[Brandon Ryder]

Mine needed replacement at 285k or so. It still started but was beginning to become intermittent. When you know what you're in for doing the job and planning accordingly it's not terrible. It's just not the simple starter job you would expect. I was going to just replace contacts but after I got into it I found my bearings had also gone. Luckily a denso replacement was available at napa. Should be good for a long time and i still kept the old starter to rebuild because I'm like that.

 

[BullElk]

The comment about the timing chain is a real one tho -

I would also say that the perceived importance of getting timing belt work done at proper intervals is also a bit overrated. The water pump, tensioners and especially the timing belt will last a lot longer than the Toyota recommended intervals and even longer than the fear in which LC/LX owners have been instilled. In 24 years and 11 LC/LXs, I have replaced one (1) water pump. And that was right after the previous owner had it replaced before I bought it.

The instilled fear has a bit more validity on interference engines...I believe 2006 and newer but light years less fear to me in noninterference engines.

 

[riffman12]

I haven't done it yet but it doesn't look that hard really. Could use the job to clean or replace the injectors and also install a black plastic intake if it's the older 4.7 or use the opportunity to disable the air injection pump on a newer 06/07. Also a good time to clean any carbon from the intakes/valves.

what's the benefit of the black intake? Just lighter?

 

[Brandon Ryder]

I would also say that the perceived importance of getting timing belt work done at proper intervals is also a bit overrated. The water pump, tensioners and especially the timing belt will last a lot longer than the Toyota recommended intervals and even longer than the fear in which LC/LX owners have been instilled. In 24 years and 11 LC/LXs, I have replaced one (1) water pump. And that was right after the previous owner had it replaced before I bought it.

The instilled fear has a bit more validity on interference engines...I believe 2006 and newer but light years less fear to me in noninterference engines.

I had my timing belt snap on me at almost exactly the 90k interval. It was a Gates belt however that the PO had installed when his original TB snapped on him. Point being, you can't rely on Toyota reliability of the timing belt If you don't know what's in there. Good news is that the non vvti engine's aren't damaged by this as you mentioned. It did result in my vehicle being unusable for over a week though. At the time it broke , I too subscribed to the "timing belts will go double the service interval" theory. Even if the belt goes that long, the water pumps can also fail, especially if the PO cheaped out and didn't have it replaced with the timing belt.

 

[gregnash]

As someone the literally had a shop do this days before everything shut down, if you have the time and space, do it yourself.
Cost for me, with getting my old starter back (which was a denso reman'd) from the shop was just over $1100 out the door. They had planned to order a standard NAPA starter but I requested the Denso, they also replaced intake gaskets. Tech I worked with was nice, told him about MUD and he went and looked everything up because we had discussed the shop manual procedure (removing upper and lower pieces separately vs. as one piece) and he said that the one piece way worked perfectly. Everything was nice and clean and looks to be well done, so I am happy but really could have saved myself a lot of money had I taken care of it.

The Denso Reman'd that was in there got about 40k miles out of it, previous to that had 150k-ish on it.

 

[lawrence1]

The location of the starter on a motor should not be a buying factor. I get what your saying, but if that's all your worried about just buy the cruiser, replace the starter, and know it will be good for a while.

190k miles, original starter, no signs of failing yet

This. You're buying a car that's now at least 13 yrs old (100 series), or older, and most have been driven well over 100K miles. Many have been neglected and have thousands in deferred maintenance that should be adressed. If the starter placement is scaring you, none of these are cars you should be looking at. While they're Toyotas, built well and quite reliable overall, you're still talking about a relatively complex 4WD vehicle, built on an aging platform. Things will break, and they all need work to keep them running (this includes maintenance). Some of the work is not exactly pleasant and you will get dirty. Repacking wheel bearings, TB service, CV boots, diff fluids, transfer case fluid, AT fluid, AHC fluid, etc. The Lexus versions have hydraulic suspensions, which add more complexity, but are generally reliable until you get into high mileage territory. The starter job is a manifold off affair. Not a big deal, just takes some time and patience. I won't even get into an 80 Series, as those are money pits now, unless you get one that's been completely gone through, and you'll pay through the nose for it. All in all, realize that these aren't Honda Civics, or CR-Vs, but they are likely the most reliable vehicle of their kind overall, assuming you don't buy one that's been neglected.

 

[BadReligion]

I had my timing belt snap on me at almost exactly the 90k interval. It was a Gates belt however that the PO had installed when his original TB snapped on him. Point being, you can't rely on Toyota reliability of the timing belt If you don't know what's in there. Good news is that the non vvti engine's aren't damaged by this as you mentioned. It did result in my vehicle being unusable for over a week though. At the time it broke , I too subscribed to the "timing belts will go double the service interval" theory. Even if the belt goes that long, the water pumps can also fail, especially if the PO cheaped out and didn't have it replaced with the timing belt.

Agreed. I'm doing a 200k mi refresh and in the middle of starter, TB, WP. The latter two where done by the PO (at Lexus) at 100k. While the TB doesn't look bad, the water pump was leaking everywhere. Fan bracket pulley also sounded like it was about to explode.

As for starter replacement, if you were just doing that, it would be a half day job at its worst. Nothing complicated, just tedious. Take lots of pics of the various vacuum lines. I wouldn't worry about knocking off some carbon from the manifold. Not going to make a difference on a 200k mi engine. Makes replacing heater Ts and hoses real easy with the manifold off though. Same with valve cover gaskets.