SR Shackle angle

[DavidAW]

Thanks for the help guys.

Does anyone know if you are supposed to flip/reverse the springs on the 60? The MAF instructions say to do it on the 40 but dont mention it on the 60.

Dave

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

On my 55, I flipped the springs. This keeps the mil wrap end w/ the spring pin end. I'm NOT sure what you 60s guys do. I like my SR... it is the SAME kit for the 55 as the 60. However, I'm now looking at those lo profile spring pin hangers that were noted in the post above, and a thru the frame (read: sleeved) shackle pin. I plan on moving the bits forward on the frame to gain wheel base and give myself WHATEVER shackle angle I want., Also looking at those mojave springs by maf. They say 5" w/ shackles-believe it when I see it...

 

[Mace]

You flip the springs. But, IIRC, the center pin on 60 front springs are centered.

 

[lcwizard]

On an FJ40 the shackle reversals biggest improvement is road manners and ride. Granted the road manners can be inproved with caster shims however in the case of a lift the S/R allows you to run
2 1/2" springs up front and get 4" of lift. The 2 1/2 springs ride much better.
The 60's road maners are great without the S/R but again allow a softer front spring up front when installing a lift. Contrary to what's said they do not decrease approach. The spring eye is at the same position as the lower shackle bolt so approach is the same, perhaps better since most shackles push forward and the S/R rakes back. One thing that is improved is durability.
I have had four FJ60's and with every one the shackle hanger or hangers have broken from the frame . The same happened with the three others belonging to friends I wheel with. I've broken two front shackles, both stock, in the forward position, the last on the Holy Cross trail making it a slow ride home.
The front shackle hangers are a serious week spot. Forward shackles are vulnerable. Whether you do a kit or a home build I believe the shackle reversal is a better more reliable choice

 

[CruisinFJ60]

I do recommend the kit and am very happy with it and 35's. I tried long shackles but they're just scary. One thing about the kit is that anyone can install it and not worry about suspension geometry. I wheel mine pretty hard but it's also my DD so that makes a difference. I'll never wheel mine as hard as Kling-on unless I happen upon another one to use as a DD. I'm an hour from the Rockies so getting there fast & straight down the road is important too.

im not sure what kinda problems you had with yours but i run long shackles on my 60 with the medium springs and drove it daily for a year like that with no shims and it tracked (well still does) straight as an arrow, doesnt dart all over the road ect. drive like it should

It does provide additional lift and helps the approach angle as well. I wouldn't trust it as bolt on only though. Mine's thoroughly welded and while I was in there I raised the bumper a couple inches. I have to say that after reading everyone's opinions I decided to do it and will encourage others to as well.

yea i get that the MAF kit adds lift...
that is in large part of the reason i dislike it.
it only adds lift since it lower the mounting point of the spring so much. normally at the fixed end it is up pretty tight against the frame and the shackle end is the end dropped down and away from the frame. well with the MAF kit it dropps the shackle end down cause well thats what a shackle does in part, but their fixed mount drops the spring down a good bit down from the frame. which like i said if i did a SR it would be more so for clearance up front and the MAF kit defeats that purpose.
it looks like a ghetto redneck lift.
if done with a normal flush to the frame fixed mount up front i see no issues with it as it would increase ground clearance, give the potentially better ride people are looking for and wouldnt lift the truck all un even and goofy.

my problem isnt with a SR it is with that particular kit and other like it (none that i know of thus far) that drop the fixed end down so far.

that is why i will be removing it from the front of my 42 and burning on normal fixed mounts up front.

 

[kling-on]

I think SR for on road is like lockers for offroad once you have it you love it. The Maf unit is built that way to be "user friendly" witha shorter mount in the front you have to do a CNT ... And most can't or won't tackle it. I even looked at that type of SR causes it's easyer to install.

 

[lcwizard]

yes, you gain 1 1/2" lift, I suppose that's a lot in some peoples book.
No, you can't gain clearance by simply moving a perch. The relationship
of the spring eye to the axle centerline will always be the same. All you'll do by raising the mount is lower the vehicle
If you want to raise the spring eye in relation to the axle /ground you either add arch to the spring or do a spring over

 

[LAMBCRUSHER]

X2. At least that's what I've found. That's why I'm looking into taller springs w/ the higher(lo-pro) spring eye. And I believe there is a bias on the 60 springs- less than an inch off center, and I can't remember which way it is favoring...The MAF kit is a good sunday mech tech upmod-grade. Done in an afternoon w/ minimal tools (X100 on have someone weld that sucker if you can't yourself) To those more savy w/ the tool steel, I say the best shackle reversal is the one that keeps your spring eye the highest off the ground. This will require cut and turn. For shackle angle, the point of attatchment to the frame will need to be determined by any given springs arch and reach in order to give the best angle( I like the spring shackle eye to be about 1-1 1/2" behind the frame shackle point over a 5-6" shackle length). Of course, if clearence was what we are after, the best way to do it w/o a sping over is w/ a pair of UniMog portal axles.

 

[Mace]

I think SR for on road is like lockers for offroad once you have it you love it. The Maf unit is built that way to be "user friendly" witha shorter mount in the front you have to do a CNT ... And most can't or won't tackle it. I even looked at that type of SR causes it's easyer to install.

I would disagree wholeheartedly, SR does not make a truck "ride" or track better. 99.9999% of the dudes that report amazing handling differences are only doing so because the previous suspension was seriously worn out.

 

[ntsqd]

Additionally doing an SR with the forward spring eye up high and without matching the rear spring eye to the same height is a recipe for roll-steer. A mild difference in height between the front and rear spring eyes can be made to work to your advantage, if you know what you're doing and what you're trying to achieve. A large difference with the front eye higher than the rear eye, say about the length of a stock shackle or more, can make for one evil handling truck. Body roll will cause the truck to turn out of the corner.

 

[uglyoinker]

I would disagree wholeheartedly, SR does not make a truck "ride" or track better. 99.9999% of the dudes that report amazing handling differences are only doing so because the previous suspension was seriously worn out.

I disagree with your disagree. Respectfully of course. I did a SR on my piece of 60 and did not change the springs. I did change the shocks however after accidently breaking the ome shock. But the point is I did notice an improvement in the ride quality of the front end. I wouldn't say "amazing" but improved.

 

[CruisinFJ60]

That sorta backs up mace's statement...

you called your truck a peice and that being said one would likely take the assumption that the front end is not likely 100% tight. as a matter of fact id say that prolly 50% or more of the people who say their front end is tight it prolly really isnt tight and something or a multitude of things is loose.

i have met alot of mechanically inclined people who dont know how to properly check a front end, and those that do may not know exactly what they are feeling or supposed to be feeling.

 

[uglyoinker]

cruisinfj60 guy

I'll call anything that I have a piece and that doesn't necassarily imply state tune or maintenance to that particular vehicle. I have a 2006 suzuki gsxr 1000 that goes 187 mph that I ride at miller motorsports park which is one of the nicest tracks in north america and I have no problem calling that a piece. Also I meant in a before and after for the SR where the only immediate change is the SR. So all the other pieces that may or may not be loose are the same and I felt like the SR improved the handling. I also accept and agree with the idea that when the spring flexes and moves forward because thats where the shackle is it forces the tire into the obstacle therefor transferring extra energy into the suspension. So with the shackle in the rear of the spring it would move up and back and make the energy less.........I guess. I don't know how to properly explain this theory. And I'm sure there are theory's that go against it. But I guess what it boils down to is just because I refer to my vehicle as a piece doesn't mean that it is need of service badly. Go fly a kite dick
If I saw you on the road in your diesel truck that you think is a racecar I'd blow a 120 mph wheelie by your dumbass

 

[Mace]

Jiminy Christmas... Why don't we take the tone down a notch okay Ugly.

So when you did the SR, everything else remained the same? Not new bolts, bushings, hangers, etc? How bout the shackle angle itself? Did that change? There are soo many possibilities of small changes that can make definite, seat of the pants differences in feeling. Changing the shocks does matter a heck of a lot as well. BTW, with those 4" lift springs, what was the Caster before and after the SR?

The theory on which is better, an axle swinging forward or backwards is argued all over the place. It has no easy answer, people will argue the merits and detractions back and forth.

 

[uglyoinker]

...

I guess I took it personally when he thought my front end was loose because I called my piece a piece.
Of course things changed. Like hangers. Hard to do a shackle reversal without changing the hanger. The leaf springs did not change. I disagreed with you in the first place because the SR being better or worse is going to be a lot like the axle swinging forward or backward. It's going to be argued. I did not check the castor before and after. I don't have 4 inch springs. They're 2.5's I think. They were on the rig when I got it. I had put plus 3 inch anti inversion shackles on it. But when I had the chance for a free SR set up I took it. Like all our rigs it is a work in progress. Some things good some not so much. Honestly I got the 60 as a consolation because I didn't and still don't have my 55 on the road. I need to quit spending so much time on the 60 and put my time into the 55.
I wasn't trying to have my tone to harsh. I put the dumb icons in trying to show that I'm not taking this too seriously.
Opinions. We all have them. We're all nerds. We should be out wheeling or turning wrenches instead of tapping away on these damn keyboards.

 

[DavidAW]

I wish I could afford to try both 4+ long shackles and the SR to compare.
But my only local reference is a couple guys with SRs who both like them.
So I'll probably give SR a try.

Thanks for everyones help.

-Dave

 

[CruisinFJ60]

I'll call anything that I have a piece and that doesn't necassarily imply state tune or maintenance to that particular vehicle. I have a 2006 suzuki gsxr 1000 that goes 187 mph that I ride at miller motorsports park which is one of the nicest tracks in north america and I have no problem calling that a piece. Also I meant in a before and after for the SR where the only immediate change is the SR. So all the other pieces that may or may not be loose are the same and I felt like the SR improved the handling. I also accept and agree with the idea that when the spring flexes and moves forward because thats where the shackle is it forces the tire into the obstacle therefor transferring extra energy into the suspension. So with the shackle in the rear of the spring it would move up and back and make the energy less.........I guess. I don't know how to properly explain this theory. And I'm sure there are theory's that go against it. But I guess what it boils down to is just because I refer to my vehicle as a piece doesn't mean that it is need of service badly. Go fly a kite dick
If I saw you on the road in your diesel truck that you think is a racecar I'd blow a 120 mph wheelie by your dumbass

I guess I took it personally when he thought my front end was loose because I called my piece a piece.
Of course things changed. Like hangers. Hard to do a shackle reversal without changing the hanger. The leaf springs did not change. I disagreed with you in the first place because the SR being better or worse is going to be a lot like the axle swinging forward or backward. It's going to be argued. I did not check the castor before and after. I don't have 4 inch springs. They're 2.5's I think. They were on the rig when I got it. I had put plus 3 inch anti inversion shackles on it. But when I had the chance for a free SR set up I took it. Like all our rigs it is a work in progress. Some things good some not so much. Honestly I got the 60 as a consolation because I didn't and still don't have my 55 on the road. I need to quit spending so much time on the 60 and put my time into the 55.
I wasn't trying to have my tone to harsh. I put the dumb icons in trying to show that I'm not taking this too seriously.
Opinions. We all have them. We're all nerds. We should be out wheeling or turning wrenches instead of tapping away on these damn keyboards.

whoa whoa who hold up there pookie, never said your truck was a peice only used what you said as an example to make my point.

so before you go tell me to go fly a kite and call me a dickhead and get all e-thug on me maybe take a deep breath first. and as far as doin a wheelie past my truck at 120... im sure it wouldnt be hard to do, the truck tops out in 5th gear on the spedo at 115 bouncing off of the rev limiter which is prolly 125 with the larger tires (maybe) and i dunno bout it bein a racecar either, it is quite fast for its size and weight and will run down many a V8 but its primary job is my tow rig.

anyhow back on topic, when doing the SR i presume you also used new bushings while you were there? those alone can make a drastic change in handling and all that jazz.

i wasnt saying your front end is / was loose more so just that many people likely think one thing when it is really another. or that when they do something like the SR on a somewhat tired front end in need of bushings, and or shocks and they do that stuff in combination with the SR and get a somewhat false feel for what actually changed, yes it is likely a drastic improvement but doin the shocks and bushings along is likely the largest improvement for most. it is amazing how much nicer a vehicle will ride with good shocks espically since these things degrade slowly over time and likely go un noticed by most if not all till they reach a point of annoyance or get addressed as prev maint.

sorry if i offended you, wasnt my intention.

 

[uglyoinker]

.

I totally wrote out a whole response and then lost it when my puter had a brain fart. But the long and short of it was already had newish bushings so those stayed and switched to rancho 9000's that I borrowed from other cruiser a couple days after the SR. I busted the ome shock while goofing off to check if it was limiting travel and it was. Now I have real close to 10 inches of travel at the shock. Not too bad for a SUA or even a SOA. I'm calm. Are you calm? No e-thug happening. I didn't think I was being that aggresive. Here's my dumb 60 flex testing to measure shock movement and check for clearance and other things meaning I needed an excuse to drive up the rock.

 

[DavidAW]

I totally wrote out a whole response and then lost it when my puter had a brain fart. But the long and short of it was already had newish bushings so those stayed and switched to rancho 9000's that I borrowed from other cruiser a couple days after the SR. I busted the ome shock while goofing off to check if it was limiting travel and it was. Now I have real close to 10 inches of travel at the shock. Not too bad for a SUA or even a SOA. I'm calm. Are you calm? No e-thug happening. I didn't think I was being that aggresive. Here's my dumb 60 flex testing to measure shock movement and check for clearance and other things meaning I needed an excuse to drive up the rock.

Nice Flex. I wish I had a neighborhood RTI Ramp.

Do you have any pics of your front shackle angle?

Another question: Do you need to cut off the stock front
hangers, or can you leave them on if you want to go back?

Thanks
-Dave

 

[lcwizard]

There is one accomplishment the FJ60 shackle reversal kit achieves that no one has mentioned.
I have owned five FJ60's and all have broken one or more of the stock shackle hangers. I've fixed hangers
for all my friends who own 60's. The stock front hangers are just plain weak. I'll bet a lot of you who read this will go out and inspect your hangers for cracks and find this true.
I got tired of re-welding shackle hangers to the frame