Solar Panels

[FJ40_owner]

How does a system wire into your exsisting electrical system?

Does it have to use a special meter on the main breaker box?

Gifu, PM me and let me know if you want to give me a price on a system.

There are two types of systems. Grid tied and a battery system.

A grid inverter receives a DC input of 12 to 600 volts DC and converts DC to AC and synchronises with the grid. Some install two meters, one for production one for use. Some have smart meters and only one is required.

Grid is way cheaper. But when the power goes out and its dark you may be hosed. A battery system will offer quiet power and in the dark also. Batteries are expensive and require some attention and maintenance. I enjoy playing with high current DC.

A guy I know installed a very large system of panels and does grid tied. The advantage is PGE buys his power at a lower rate than usual price, PLUS he can now BUY power from PGE at the much lower rate. He lives in Grass Valley and now heats his home with electricity.

Plus he got a rebate so the install cost him half of full price.

To get a rebate the sytem must be installed by their contractor.

 

[Mace]

OK, I checked with the neighbor.


- Pulling his new 5hp well pump set at 580'.
- Buying and installing a 1.5hp solar capable well pump and having it set at 140'.

Why would he reduce the set depth on the well from 580' to 140'???

 

[FJ40_owner]

Why would he reduce the set depth on the well from 580' to 140'???

Probably a DC pump. Lots of voltage drop. Perhaps he has a very high water table..

 

[D'Animal]

Probably a DC pump. Lots of voltage drop. Perhaps he has a very high water table..

Yep, 12volt pump.


He has water at 60' and a very good supply of it. No real need to put the pump deeper.

 

[Mace]

Then why was the original pump set to 580'


if it was low enough to warrant that, it will be there again.

BTW, it does not hurt anything to set the pump too deep. The amount of lift does not really change. Other then a slight amount of increased friction.

 

[sandcruiser]

but 880 feet of 4 ga wire is some money
and the voltage drop @ 120' has to be quite a bit less than 500+', especially with 12v.
I would think.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

but 880 feet of 4 ga wire is some money
and the voltage drop @ 120' has to be quite a bit less than 500+', especially with 12v.
I would think.

.78/ft in todays marketand that single conductor

 

[Mace]

something funny about 12 volt and 4 gauge wire tho

 

[D'Animal]

It does not hurt anything to set the pump too deep. The amount of lift does not really change. Other then a slight amount of increased friction.

That is what I told him. If the water table is 60' from the cap, it does not really matter how deep the pump is because it is only pushing it 60'.

He rambled on about voltage drop and how solar does not like voltage drops etc.

He reused the same wire for the 12v system that he had running the 5 hp pump motor. He cut up the pipe and used the pieces to stake around trees.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

That is what I told him. If the water table is 60' from the cap, it does not really matter how deep the pump is because it is only pushing it 60'.

He rambled on about voltage drop and how solar does not like voltage drops etc.

He reused the same wire for the 12v system that he had running the 5 hp pump motor. He cut up the pipe and used the pieces to stake around trees.

Don't overlook that when supply voltage is decreased amperage increases.

 

[D'Animal]

How does a system wire into your exsisting electrical system?

There are two types of systems. Grid tied and a battery system.

A grid inverter receives a DC input of 12 to 600 volts DC and converts DC to AC and synchronises with the grid. Some install two meters, one for production one for use. Some have smart meters and only one is required.

Grid is way cheaper. But when the power goes out and its dark you may be hosed. A battery system will offer quiet power and in the dark also. Batteries are expensive and require some attention and maintenance. I enjoy playing with high current DC.

A guy I know installed a very large system of panels and does grid tied. The advantage is PGE buys his power at a lower rate than usual price, PLUS he can now BUY power from PGE at the much lower rate. He lives in Grass Valley and now heats his home with electricity.

Plus he got a rebate so the install cost him half of full price.

To get a rebate the system must be installed by their contractor.

Don't overlook that when supply voltage is decreased amperage increases.

That is why I asked the question above. If I have to tie into my meter, it will require 390' of underground wiring from the shop to the meter on the house. That does not count up the 22' wall and into the solar grid.

If I can plug it into the 200amp junction box in the shop and backfeed through the existing wire, it will cost a lot less. My 400 amp box and meter is on the house.

 

[LandCruiserPhil]

That is why I asked the question above. If I have to tie into my meter, it will require 390' of underground wiring from the shop to the meter on the house. That does not count up the 22' wall and into the solar grid.

If I can plug it into the 200amp junction box in the shop and backfeed through the existing wire, it will cost a lot less. My 400 amp box and meter is on the house.

Thats a question for your power company and local inspector. They are all a little different on there requirements. My power company requires all PV equipment (except panels)to be in the same location as the main equipment. Our local inspectors dont know whats going on so if its OK with the power company it alright with them. From a safety point you would want all power providing disconnects to be in the same location. I would suggest a meeting with your power company rep to discuss option.

 

[gifu]

You don't have to backfeed at the meter, at least not in PG&E territory (SCE, LADWP, SDG&E, Oregon and Arizona... pretty much everywhere else, you do... or at least you need a safety switch at the meter)

There's a section of NEC 690 called the 120% backfeed rule... basically you can backfeed up to 120% of the main panel rating... so, if you have a 200A system, you can back-feed 40A safely onto the busbars. Now, the largest PV system that you can fit onto 40A (you kids with the calculators hang on, it's more complicated then straight ole math), is a 9.6kW DC (aka "Rated" or "PTC") system. General "rule of thumb", is that a 1kW DC system, will produce 1500kWH AC annually. So, that 9.6kW system that you can fit on your 200A panel, will spit out about 14,400 kWH.

If you want anything larger, we'd have to connect via a line-side tap, which circumvents the panel all together and generally means tying into the meter (or at least near it).

 

[D'Animal]

Is this on the market yet?

I would hold off on any solar power for a year or two more. Google "thin film solar". These could potentially change the solar market. They are far cheaper and are currently being made for large megawatt installs. In the next few years they should start into the consumer market. They will bring the payback period into a range that is reasonable. Bang for the buck right now is solar hot water. There are a lot of rebates available and payback is 3-5yrs with a top of the line vac. tube set up. I hope to get the solar hot water installed either before the fall or early in the spring.

 

[gifu]

between when you started this thread, and today... the cost of an installed solar array has dropped by about $.80/watt... but the rebate has dropped by about $1.00. So, it was cheaper a year ago.

We are the only residential solar company installing thin film on a large scale (First Solar, which is CDTe). What we've seen is that the traditional silicon crystalline module prices have dropped to compete with thinfilm. On residential, I still prefer traditional SO crystalline modules.

to answer your question: No. Thin film is not readily available to the ave. joe homeowner.

 

[Mace]

How bout just enough for the top of a camper???

Thin film sounds neat for that application..

 

[GAS-A-LOT!]

D'animal,
I did the structural plans for a system to be placed on an existing trellis in Pasadena about a month ago.



He used a grid tied system with Dual sided Sanyo's. (20 Panesl) I think they were something like $800 each? And the hardware was going to cost around 2k.

The home owner had insight about the rate hikes that were scheduled and ended up taking the plunge. Also, I think with the rebates he will be getting a good amount of it paid by the state.

Don't know the model #'s I don't think those specific models would work for your application.

PM me if PDFs might be of help. (Model numbers and Schematics are included)

Ron

 

[D'Animal]

PM on it's way

Thanks

 

[Mace]

I just saw this,

Amazon.com: Sunforce 50044 60-Watt Solar Charging Kit: Automotive

Would this be a good system for my camper? It sure looks to eb an excellent deal (heck, I doubt I could find enough room on the roof for the panels..)

 

[FJ40_owner]

I just saw this,

Amazon.com: Sunforce 50044 60-Watt Solar Charging Kit: Automotive

Would this be a good system for my camper? It sure looks to eb an excellent deal (heck, I doubt I could find enough room on the roof for the panels..)

I have one of the charge controllers shown there. It is IMO on the lower end of the quality scale. Actually the entire line of stuff in that ad IMO is on the lower end. Price the stuff individually and look into charge controllers made by Morningstar. Again IMO they make very good stuff.

15 watt cells, you can do better than that for the size shown.