Smell of gas in and around vehicle P0441 Trouble code

[18Cruiser]

Anyone have this trouble code and smell of gas in and around the vehicle? What was the solution?

I have checked the gas cap to make sure it was properly placed on the tank, so reasonably sure that was not the issue.

Replace purge valve something more serious?

Looking at Youtube the replacement seems fairly straight forward and I am reasonably mechanical but certainly not a mechanic.

 

[kcjaz]

Are you above 5000’ elevation? Boiling gas at elevation and warm/hot ambient is a thing for 200s.

https://forum.ih8mud.com/posts/13905489/bookmark

 

[18Cruiser]

We actually were in Breckenridge, Colorado all week, but the issue happened on the way back to Dallas. When the check engine light came on we were well into Texas, I don't recall exactly but probably close to Electra, Texas (approximatey 1220 ft according to google).

In reading other threads on this issue, we did some wheeling there and I do have Bud Built al. skids.

 

[18Cruiser]

Just an update, the error code cleared itself. Not sure what that means but will get with a mechanic and see what he says.

 

[tbisaacs]

We actually were in Breckenridge, Colorado all week, but the issue happened on the way back to Dallas. When the check engine light came on we were well into Texas, I don't recall exactly but probably close to Electra, Texas (approximatey 1220 ft according to google).

In reading other threads on this issue, we did some wheeling there and I do have Bud Built al. skids.

The evap check doesn't happen at every startup which is why you are seeing this behavior.

 

[Tex68w]

I was wondering if I would see this same issue rear its ugly little head after we head to Colorado. Hopefully I am not back here with the same issue in a few weeks.

 

[TeCKis300]

Anyone have this trouble code and smell of gas in and around the vehicle? What was the solution?

I have checked the gas cap to make sure it was properly placed on the tank, so reasonably sure that was not the issue.

Replace purge valve something more serious?

Looking at Youtube the replacement seems fairly straight forward and I am reasonably mechanical but certainly not a mechanic.

Give us a little more context. As in where you are experiencing this? What kind of mods do you have in the form of skids, aux tank, other armor.

To some degree, P0441 can be expected in certain use cases like very high elevation and slow speed crawling. There are variables that exacerbate this including where you are purchasing your fuel relative to where you use it, octane, and fuel level. Also variables of modifications that trap heat in the chassis that more easily heat soaks fuel.

Then there are the legitimate mechanical issues related to VSVs and the charcoal canister.

More than likely you're experiencing fuel heating up along with fuel formulations that have higher vapor pressure. This create excess fuel vapor that the ECU sees as out of bounds when opening the purge flow VSV to recharge the charcoal canister.

More info here

The P0441 Thread

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[18Cruiser]

Give us a little more context. As in where you are experiencing this? What kind of mods do you have in the form of skids, aux tank, other armor.

To some degree, P0441 can be expected in certain use cases like very high elevation and slow speed crawling. There are variables that exacerbate this including where you are purchasing your fuel relative to where you use it, octane, and fuel level. Also variables of modifications that trap heat in the chassis that more easily heat soaks fuel.

Then there are the legitimate mechanical issues related to VSVs and the charcoal canister.

More than likely you're experiencing fuel heating up along with fuel formulations that have higher vapor pressure. This create excess fuel vapor that the ECU sees as out of bounds when opening the purge flow VSV to recharge the charcoal canister.

More info here

The P0441 Thread

forum.ih8mud.com

I do have Bud Built aluminium skids and sliders, only thing I believe could be relevant. But out of completeness, ARB front bumper, Warner Winch, Baja Design LP6 spots, ARB dual compressor, rear locker.

Wouldn't say we were crawling but certainly not highway speeds either on a trip to Crystal Lake which was maybe 12,933, (Wednesday) feet (according to google). We did smell gas while driving up to Crystal Lake but no warning lights at that time. The smell went away shortly after arriving back at the house we were staying at in Colorado which was at about 10,000 feet.

Light came on as we were driving back to Dallas. When we arrived, we could smell gas again.

 

[MCtree]

Op,
What were the temps in Colorado and then Texas when the light came on?

And you don’t have an Aux tank?
I know you listed everything but just asking to be sure because lots of people on this forum who have an Aux tank seem to have the gas smell and code issue.

 

[18Cruiser]

Op,
What were the temps in Colorado and then Texas when the light came on?

And you don’t have an Aux tank?
I know you listed everything but just asking to be sure because lots of people on this forum who have an Aux tank seem to have the gas smell and code issue.

What were the temps in Colorado and then Texas when the light came on? Colorado Temp when we smelled gas about 68-70. Texas about 85-90 when the light came on.

And you don’t have an Aux tank? Correct, no Aux Tank.

 

[lostonaroad]

Threw P0441 on my way from Golden to Snowmass this last weekend. Took about 5 hours with Friday traffic and came on with about 35 min left in the trip when we got off highway, I was attempting to transfer fuel when it occurred and turned that off when the CEL came on. The trip was in the afternoon (1P) temps in Golden had been around 90 and it stayed about that way almost all the way to Snowmass where it was 85. I was fully loaded with 5 people, gear and all the mods in my bio below.

Cleared the code with my Scan Gauge 3 and was also monitoring the Coolant the whole trip and it never got over 198 Degrees, most often much lower into the low to mid 180's in the downhills of the mountains passes.

Going to keep monitoring this but really would like to find a solution centered around a fuel cooler if that seems to be the root cause of the gas being heated in the lines then returned to the tank itself bringing it closer to the boiling point. I'm guessing in my scenario my combination of weight, altitude changes and then the change in temps from being at highway speed to the stop and go of Glenwood Springs raised those temps too high and threw the code.

 

[Markuson]

Anyone have this trouble code and smell of gas in and around the vehicle? What was the solution?

I have checked the gas cap to make sure it was properly placed on the tank, so reasonably sure that was not the issue.

Replace purge valve something more serious?

Looking at Youtube the replacement seems fairly straight forward and I am reasonably mechanical but certainly not a mechanic.

Very common If “boiling gas.” Most of my trail pals have had this in Colorado and Utah, and many had it this week at LCDC including the truck I was in. I’ve seen iit since my truck was stock going up Top of the World trail in Moab years ago. Reset codes and move on. No harm done, unless you want to continually swap out charcoal canisters at &600+ each…only to soon be fouled.

 

[Tex68w]

Very common If “boiling gas.” Most of my trail pals have had this in Colorado and Utah, and many had it this week at LCDC including the truck I was in. I’ve seen iit since my truck was stock going up Top of the World trail in Moab years ago. Reset codes and move on. No harm done, unless you want to continually swap out charcoal canisters at &600+ each…only to soon be fouled.

What are most using to reset and clear codes these days?

 

[TeCKis300]

What are most using to reset and clear codes these days?

Standalone tool or one that integrates with a smartphone? I like the latter. It may also depend on if you're an Android or Apple user. This is a must have tool on the road IMO.

People have reported good experiences with this one, which is compatible with both?
Amazon product ASIN B073XKQQQW
For Android, I like this one, but the above option may be just as good but I have not used. I leave it plugged in the OBD port all the time.
Amazon product ASIN B00H9S71LW

 

[bloc]

For Apple Carista is a good option, partially because it is one of the rare adapters that can be used to program TPMS if needed.

Teck, I’ve read some of those dongles can draw enough current to present problems for vehicles that aren’t started often. Any idea how to determine which?

Maybe markuson wrote about this at one point?

 

[TeCKis300]

Teck, I’ve read some of those dongles can draw enough current to present problems for vehicles that aren’t started often. Any idea how to determine which?

Yes, I've read that too. I haven't had problems with my setup. Part of why I did get the OBDLink LX is because it seemed better developed and included the following sleep function. I'll say my setup probably isn't a great indicator as I have a larger group 31 starting battery with more reserve.

BatterySaver Technology​

When you turn off your engine, LX Bluetooth goes to sleep and won't drain your car's battery. Its sophisticated triggers will wake up LX when you connect via Bluetooth, unlock doors, or crank the engine.

 

[Markuson]

For Apple Carista is a good option, partially because it is one of the rare adapters that can be used to program TPMS if needed.

Teck, I’ve read some of those dongles can draw enough current to present problems for vehicles that aren’t started often. Any idea how to determine which?

Maybe markuson wrote about this at one point?

Yes. Dongles are a problem for that exact reason, and why I don’t use for ready access. Some not only draw power, but quite a lot—enough to get HOT.

My work-around for my frequent evap codes is keeping a normal reader hooked up…But…with a switched extension in the middle. So…when I need to clear a code, I flip the switch and its on. Once done, I flip it to off, and zero power. This middle-man type cable switch is just about the only way to avoid sending constant power out via obd2.

 

[Markuson]

For Apple Carista is a good option, partially because it is one of the rare adapters that can be used to program TPMS if needed.

Teck, I’ve read some of those dongles can draw enough current to present problems for vehicles that aren’t started often. Any idea how to determine which?

Maybe markuson wrote about this at one point?

Yes. Dongles are a problem for that exact reason, and why I don’t use leave them attached. Some not only draw power, but q a bit—enough to get HOT.

My work-around for my frequent evap codes is keeping a normal reader hooked up…But…with a switched extension in the middle. So…when I need to clear a code, I flip the switch and the reader is tgen powered. Once done, I flip it to off, and zero power exits obd2. All other readers I’ve seen (especially bluetooth) consume constant power when plugged in.

I do have a Carista dongle, but only plug it in when I need a particular carista function (so…rarely).

The other reason I avoid bluetooth dongle reliance is…its phone/device dependant, and one more thing subject to failure, dead battery, bluetooth issues, updates, etc. Just a plain old obd2 reset win on reliability and simplicity, and in the boonies, or while driving, that’s a good thing.

 

[Leelanau]

Yes. Dongles are a problem for that exact reason, and why I don’t use leave them attached. Some not only draw power, but q a bit—enough to get HOT.

My work-around for my frequent evap codes is keeping a normal reader hooked up…But…with a switched extension in the middle. So…when I need to clear a code, I flip the switch and the reader is tgen powered. Once done, I flip it to off, and zero power exits obd2. All other readers I’ve seen (especially bluetooth) consume constant power when plugged in.

I do have a Carista dongle, but only plug it in when I need a particular carista function (so…rarely).

The other reason I avoid bluetooth dongle reliance is…its phone/device dependant, and one more thing subject to failure, dead battery, bluetooth issues, updates, etc. Just a plain old obd2 reset win on reliability and simplicity, and in the boonies, or while driving, that’s a good thing.

Hey Mark, forgive the stupid question, but why do you leave the obd cable plugged in? Why not just plug a regular non-switched cable in (and power it up) when you need it?

Do you have a link or picture of the switched cable? I still do not fully grasp the power drain issue and why people would need to leave dongles or cables plugged in.

Thanks!

 

[Markuson]

Hey Mark, forgive the stupid question, but why do you leave the obd cable plugged in? Why not just plug a regular non-switched cable in (and power it up) when you need it?

Do you have a link or picture of the switched cable? I still do not fully grasp the power drain issue and why people would need to leave dongles or cables plugged in.

Thanks!

For those who get frequent evap codes…it can be a daily occurrance, and its a pain to crawl under the dash. But…leaving power-hungry readers plugged in leads to non-use electrical power drain. I route the extension and reader wire out of the way…so its a non-factor while driving to leave it plugged in…but disconnected via a physical, in-line switch.

Why? Because most obd2 readers do not have power switches & rely on power available by the obd2 plug itself.

Problem is… Most obd2 units don’t have a power switch…of if the do, they still draw power from the plug. That power is delivered 24/7 IF something is plugged in that can utilize it. This means leaving a code reader plugged in for convenience has the potential to seriously impact your battery if left sitting.


Evap codes can be a daily occurrence once you start getting them…especially in areas that boil fuel (Utah, Colorado at altitude and heat). … and an obd2 code reset is THE remedy that is used to clear dash light warnings (which also can trigger the inability to, for example, shift into 4-Lo). So it behooves drivers to have an easy way to clear codes without delay. BUT… leaving the reader attached directly means ot os consuming power, even when the truck is off. -This is also true for most bluetooth-based obd2 dongles, that must communicate with a phone, etc.

My extension cable has an on/off switch that, when off, means the power circuit available via the plug wires is disconnected, resulting in zero power draw…while I still have everything plugged in 24/7 with the easy flip of a switch.

-When I need to quickly clear a code…I flip the in-line extension cable switch to ON…which powers the code reader.
-I then check/clear evap codes…
-Then I simply flip the extension cable’s switch off again, which cuts power to the reader.
-I can perform this even while driving if I fail to notice the dash indicator upon entry.

In this way, I never have to crawl under the dash, and a real annoyance is reduced to a 10-15 second remedy.

Make sense now?