Slow roll transmission issue?

[greynolds]

I’ve got about 1600 miles on my 2020 LC and have been experiencing an issue when transitioning from a slow roll, such as approaching a red light, to accelerating again (light turns green before I came to a full stop). Same thing when slowing down to take a right turn and then accelerating again after I’ve made the turn. The engine revs up for a few seconds until the transmission figures out it needs to change gears. This isn’t something that has just started happening, but something I’ve been noticing since I took delivery back in June, though since I haven’t put many miles on it, I haven’t had a lot of opportunity to get a better feel for how the trano mission operates overall. I can obviously bring this up with the dealer, but I’d like some feedback from other members on if this is considered normal for this current engine and transmission combination or if this indicates a problem that needs to be addressed.

 

[rscoleman]

1st to 2nd and 2nd to 1st in my 2016 was jerky at best prior to TSB software update. It is now livable but still annoying till I get a few miles on cold vehicle. I did a test some time back where I engaged that 2nd button. Were it takes off in 2nd and does not drop down to first. Much smoother all around drive. I did it for while then just went back to normal as I can live with normal. I think that 8 speeds 1st is such a low gear it is the detriment but really nice to have if you are crawling. I would suggest you try the 2nd button for a couple of days and see if you still notice any issues. If you do then go to dealer. If you do not then it is likely just 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 1st. One of those things that you have to learn to live with for what the vehicle is capable of.

 

[gluaisrothai]

I’ve got about 1600 miles on my 2020 LC and have been experiencing an issue when transitioning from a slow roll, such as approaching a red light, to accelerating again (light turns green before I came to a full stop). Same thing when slowing down to take a right turn and then accelerating again once I’ve made the turn. The engine revs up for a few seconds until the transmission figures out it needs to change gears. This isn’t something that has just started happening, but something I’ve been noticing since I took delivery back in June, though since I haven’t put many miles on it, I haven’t had a lot of opportunity to get a better feel for how the trano mission operates overall. I can obviously bring this up with the dealer, but I’d like some feedback from other members on if this is considered normal for this current engine and transmission combination or if this indicates a problem that needs to be addressed.

2021 HE, 1400 miles, same behavior.

 

[greynolds]

1st to 2nd and 2nd to 1st in my 2016 was jerky at best prior to TSB software update. It is now livable but still annoying till I get a few miles on cold vehicle. I did a test some time back where I engaged that 2nd button. Were it takes off in 2nd and does not drop down to first. Much smoother all around drive. I did it for while then just went back to normal as I can live with normal. I think that 8 speeds 1st is such a low gear it is the detriment but really nice to have if you are crawling. I would suggest you try the 2nd button for a couple of days and see if you still notice any issues. If you do then go to dealer. If you do not then it is likely just 1st to 2nd and 2nd to 1st. One of those things that you have to learn to live with for what the vehicle is capable of.

Thanks for the response - I’ll give that a try. Many of the times I’ve noticed this have been within a few miles of heading out on a short trip. If it’s normal behavior, I’m sure I can learn to live with it, but if it’s an actual problem, I’ll obviously want to get it addressed.

 

[Woodland Realm]

2021 HE, 2000 miles, same here.

 

[04UZJ100]

Normal. The 8 speed insists on downshifting into first when coasting below 10mph. The low 1st gear ratio coupled with stacked driveline slack results in clunky behavior when throttle is reapplied.

 

[greynolds]

Normal. The 8 speed insists on downshifting into first when coasting below 10mph. The low 1st gear ratio coupled with stacked driveline slack results in clunky behavior when throttle is reapplied.

Thanks. This sounds like something they could address with a software update, but it’s good to know that it’s normal behavior for these.

 

[Madtiger]

2019. Same issue.

 

[TeCKis300]

Yup to the super low gearing. Not so much an issue, but the ultra low first gear feature can create a bit of jerkiness and perceived lash. You won't find this type of gearing in mainstream cars where smoothness is prioritized, but in a Cruiser, you know it's just a core part of its deep capability.

To put this in perspective, the 6-speed cruiser already has solid gearing. The 8-speed goes beyond with ultra low gearing almost on par with the 6-speed regeared from 3.9s to 4.88. That's dramatic. It also makes for wickedly more low range crawl ratios. I would trade a bit of jerkiness for that extra gearing, particularly to tow with.

Definitive 200-series Gearing Reference

EDIT: Expanding tables for 8-speed and 40s So I had a little time this morning to put together a chart combining transmission gearing of 6-speed vs 8-speed, diff ratios, and tire sizing into an overall gearing reference. Hoping this will be useful for those trying to understand how their...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[Madtiger]

Yup to the super low gearing. Not so much an issue, but the ultra low first gear feature can create a bit of jerkiness and perceived lash. You won't find this type of gearing in mainstream cars where smoothness is prioritized, but in a Cruiser, you know it's just a core part of its deep capability.

To put this in perspective, the 6-speed cruiser already has solid gearing. The 8-speed goes beyond with ultra low gearing almost on par with the 6-speed regeared from 3.9s to 4.88. That's dramatic. It also makes for wickedly more low range crawl ratios. I would trade a bit of jerkiness for that extra gearing, particularly to tow with.

Definitive 200-series Gearing Reference

EDIT: Expanding tables for 8-speed and 40s So I had a little time this morning to put together a chart combining transmission gearing of 6-speed vs 8-speed, diff ratios, and tire sizing into an overall gearing reference. Hoping this will be useful for those trying to understand how their...

forum.ih8mud.com

Mainstream cars don’t have a low 1st gear as ours in their 8-speed auto tranny? I am not too sure about your statement.

Lexus RX350 8-speed auto:

1st gear = 5.25
Axle ratio = 3.33

2017 Toyota Sienna 8-speed auto:

1st gear = 5.52
Axle ratio = 3.0

ZF 8HP transmission that can be found in Chrysler, BMW, Fiat, Audi, etc:

1st gear = 4.7 to 5.25 (varies with models)
Axle ratio = varies with models.

Honda’s 10 speed auto in their Accord:

1st gear = 5.25
Axle ratio = 3.55


In other words, there is nothing special (or as TeCKis300 falsely said, “deep capability”) about LC’s 8-speed auto 1st gear ratio that would explain this hesitation/jerky behavior. Our 8-speed auto 1st gear ratio is about average (definitely not “super low gearing”) when compared with other automatic transmission in “mainstream” passenger cars with similar or higher gear ratios.

My Sienna minivan has 8-speed auto (with super duper “deep capability” as TeCKis300 likes to claim) and it did display the hesitation/jerky sensation at rolling stop scenario but that was minimized with a software update. The LC definitely does it more often…and i have a 2019 model. Since Toyota did the update for LC’s 8-speed auto back in 2016/2017, i doubt that Toyota will update our transmission again…so, we gotta learn to love this behavior. For me, as long as the tranny is reliable, then i am OK to make do with this ”deep capability”.

 

[greynolds]

Yeah, for me it's somewhat more about knowing if the behavior is considered normal or if it's something that needs to go in to get looked at. I'm due for my free Toyota Care 10 month / 10K service (based on time as I'm not even remotely close on the miles), so this would be a good time to have it looked at, if that were necessary. But at the same time, given some of the horror stories we hear about dealers doing less than stellar work on LC's, I'd prefer to not have it poked at more than needed.

It seems kind of silly to go in for the 10 month / 10K service with only about 1600 miles on the odometer, but it's free and my understanding is that if I don't stick with the prescribed intervals, I'll lose out on the rest of the free maintenance. Plus it's an opportunity to get out of the house and take the LC for a drive... But unless my math is wrong, it hasn't been 10 months since I took delivery in June (by my calculations, it has been 8 months), though maybe they're going by date of manufacture or when it arrived at the dealership for the intervals. Given how things are going, I'll probably put another ~2000 miles on over the next year as it looks like the WFH gig is going to turn into a permanent thing for me (perhaps going into the office once every few weeks). I wonder if anyone will be interested in buying a "super high mileage" 2020 LC HE in a few years LOL.

That all said, I'm not sure I buy the "deep capability" line as it relates to this either. This is more about the transmission simply picking the wrong gear for the situation than anything else (it should probably be picking 2nd gear for this particular situation, rather than 1st).

 

[04UZJ100]

Yeah, for me it's somewhat more about knowing if the behavior is considered normal or if it's something that needs to go in to get looked at. I'm due for my free Toyota Care 10 month / 10K service (based on time as I'm not even remotely close on the miles), so this would be a good time to have it looked at, if that were necessary. But at the same time, given some of the horror stories we hear about dealers doing less than stellar work on LC's, I'd prefer to not have it poked at more than needed.

It seems kind of silly to go in for the 10 month / 10K service with only about 1600 miles on the odometer, but it's free and my understanding is that if I don't stick with the prescribed intervals, I'll lose out on the rest of the free maintenance. Plus it's an opportunity to get out of the house and take the LC for a drive... But unless my math is wrong, it hasn't been 10 months since I took delivery in June (by my calculations, it has been 8 months), though maybe they're going by date of manufacture or when it arrived at the dealership for the intervals. Given how things are going, I'll probably put another ~2000 miles on over the next year as it looks like the WFH gig is going to turn into a permanent thing for me (perhaps going into the office once every few weeks). I wonder if anyone will be interested in buying a "super high mileage" 2020 LC HE in a few years LOL.

That all said, I'm not sure I buy the "deep capability" line as it relates to this either. This is more about the transmission simply picking the wrong gear for the situation than anything else (it should probably be picking 2nd gear for this particular situation, rather than 1st).

It’s normal....highly suggest keeping your LC away from the dealer. Even for included “Toyota care” items.

 

[TeCKis300]

Mainstream cars don’t have a low 1st gear as ours in their 8-speed auto tranny? I am not too sure about your statement.

Lexus RX350 8-speed auto:

1st gear = 5.25
Axle ratio = 3.33

2017 Toyota Sienna 8-speed auto:

1st gear = 5.52
Axle ratio = 3.0

ZF 8HP transmission that can be found in Chrysler, BMW, Fiat, Audi, etc:

1st gear = 4.7 to 5.25 (varies with models)
Axle ratio = varies with models.

Honda’s 10 speed auto in their Accord:

1st gear = 5.25
Axle ratio = 3.55


In other words, there is nothing special (or as TeCKis300 falsely said, “deep capability”) about LC’s 8-speed auto 1st gear ratio that would explain this hesitation/jerky behavior. Our 8-speed auto 1st gear ratio is about average (definitely not “super low gearing”) when compared with other automatic transmission in “mainstream” passenger cars with similar or higher gear ratios.

My Sienna minivan has 8-speed auto (with super duper “deep capability” as TeCKis300 likes to claim) and it did display the hesitation/jerky sensation at rolling stop scenario but that was minimized with a software update. The LC definitely does it more often…and i have a 2019 model. Since Toyota did the update for LC’s 8-speed auto back in 2016/2017, i doubt that Toyota will update our transmission again…so, we gotta learn to love this behavior. For me, as long as the tranny is reliable, then i am OK to make do with this ”deep capability”.

So you've spent time to dig up and share information, and that's great. That's what this forum is about and I'm ears for more information and a conversation. If your childish MO makes you feel better, that's great too. I agree with you on the overall gearing. The 5.7L is in a different class of motor with higher torque outputs and larger/heavier reciprocating assembly and we know it doesn't exactly need the type of gearing the 8-speed has which does give it deeper capability than the 6-speed offers.

 

[Madtiger]

So you've spent time to dig up and share information, and that's great. That's what this forum is about and I'm ears for more information and a conversation. If your childish MO makes you feel better, that's great too. I agree with you on the overall gearing. The 5.7L is in a different class of motor with higher torque outputs and larger/heavier reciprocating assembly and we know it doesn't exactly need the type of gearing the 8-speed has which does give it deeper capability than the 6-speed offers.

Childish? LOL…look in the mirror bud. It's impossible to have a normal conversation with you. Just because I don't reply in the other thread you linked does not mean anything.

But yes, your post is wrong…no matter how hard you try to spin it.

But if you are going to insult me, then please do it via conversation/messaging like an adult. Thanks.

 

[TeCKis300]

I have no problem being wrong and have been corrected many times. I'm here to have a dialogue and learn. If you take corrections as insults, so be it.

 

[jefo13]

Absolutely “common” not sure if “normal” but I notice it navigating around speed bumps...

 

[vegasfj40]

My 2021 Heritage does the same thing. At 1500 miles currently. Stopped by the dealership last week to talk to an advisor about it and see if there were any TSBs yet. Nothing yet in Toyotas service system. I've learned how to deal with it by lightly feathering the throttle or coming to complete stop even if it isnt completely necessary.

 

[greynolds]

My 2021 Heritage does the same thing. At 1500 miles currently. Stopped by the dealership last week to talk to an advisor about it and see if there were any TSBs yet. Nothing yet in Toyotas service system. I've learned how to deal with it by lightly feathering the throttle or coming to complete stop even if it isnt completely necessary.

Yeah, coming to a complete stop prevents it from happening, but really isn't a practical solution in most of the situations where I've noticed it happening. I'll probably give the 2nd button trick a try, but otherwise I'm mostly good just knowing that it isn't something that needs to get fixed (as in a unique issue with my LC).

 

[KLF]

I had a 2005 ES330 that drove like this. People complained about it all the time on ClubLexus, it really did kinda suck. I learned how to use the skinny pedal to keep it from happening.

 

[greynolds]

I had a 2005 ES330 that drove like this. People complained about it all the time on ClubLexus, it really did kinda suck. I learned how to use the skinny pedal to keep it from happening.

I wonder if installing something like the Pedal Commander would potentially improve the situation? I've been considering getting one of those anyway as everyone seems to rave about them.