Slow Motion LS Swap - (aka Heater/Cooling System Issue) (1 Viewer)

[EricG]

Yet another crisis
Called around to some exhaust shops today - not going to mention which one's right now - and was reminded that Colorado has adopted California emissions controls, effective 1 January.

What this means is you have to use CARB approved catalytic converters which are twice as expensive - and because several states just did this and manufacturing hasn't caught up - hard to find.

It also means that I need that downstream pair of O2 sensors after all - one of the shops said they won't work on it without them. And I will need them to pass inspection when that comes back in a year or so anyway, so may as well do it now while they're building the exhaust. Luckily, I still have the Silverado harness, so I think I can pull the downstream O2 sensor wires and connectors from that.

One shop wasn't even sure they wanted to take this on right now, until they understand the new regs completely. Apparently the penalties for a shop can be pretty significant.

But back to the inspection ... if I'm reading it right, all emissions systems from the donor vehicle need to be in place, and operating - including all that evap stuff I described above as not being present. Not sure how to do that. This would have been valves, sensors, solenoids in the fuel tank & lines of the donor vehicle that I didn't grab, connected via chunks of body harness I don't have.

 

[DangerNoodle]

I don't know who you called, but John at Front Range Muffler is really good. He has a pretty good grasp of the new CARB shyt too. Might be worth a call to him if you haven't already.

 

[EricG]

I don't know who you called, but John at Front Range Muffler is really good. He has a pretty good grasp of the new CARB shyt too. Might be worth a call to him if you haven't already.

That's one of the call backs I'm expecting tomorrow.

 

[EricG]

Truck is at the exhaust shop (Muffler Masters North) Drove it down there this morning with about 18" of pipe below the headers - passed a cop in the turn lane at Austin Bluffs & Dublin - held my breath, but he didn't come after me to have a chat

I pulled the harness for the downstream O2 sensors from the donor harness and was up way to late last night adding it to the aftermarket PSI harness. Hope it works.

I've got some ideas on how to handle the rest of the evap system. It seems I should be able to add some kind of small container between the charcoal canister and the fuel tank and put a stand-alone fuel tank pressure sensor in it:

The pressure sensor on the donor vehicle was integrated with the fuel pump & sending unit, so that's not really feasible. Then a solenoid valve between that container and the charcoal canister - haven't found one I like yet. Leaves just the fuel level sensor. I found a unit on Summit that translates fuel level sender outputs to the inputs required for different gauges & displays (Classic Instruments SN34 Classic Instruments Fuel Link Interface Modules | Summit Racing - https://www.summitracing.com/parts/CIN-SN34). I'm wondering if I can use this to translate the Toyota sender output to the range expected by the GM ECU. At $135 it's kind of pricey to be experimenting with though.

But I don't have to resolve the evap stuff just yet - I've done alot of looking and talking to people and can't find anything about timelines, implemntation plans, etc. for a statewide return to testing. Just people saying it's coming. The downstream O2 sensors did have to be in place though - most shops I talked to wouldn't work on it without those.

 

[DangerNoodle]

Any information on the new CARB crap that you can share? I'm needing to get an exhaust done soon. Is it just having to install CARB compliant cats?

 

[EricG]

Any information on the new CARB crap that you can share? I'm needing to get an exhaust done soon. Is it just having to install CARB compliant cats?

Yes, CARB compliant cats, and the shop may require you to source it through them because their butt is on the line if they don't follow the rules and get caught. Don't go in there asking if they'll do something shady for you, especially over the phone. They'll probably stop talking to you immedietely - apparently there are stings run against them. The cats have to be the proper distance from he exhaust ports as well +- a few inches I think. Overall, it has to conform to the emissions from the donor vehicle. So if your donor had the downstream O2 sensors, you'll need to get those set up as well.

If you can, I'd hold off a few months and hopefully the cat prices come down to something not quite as insane.

While I'm typing this, I just got the call that it's done and ready to pick up!

 

[EricG]

Oh, and I got a reply back from tech support at Classic Instruments about that fuel sender converter. They say their unit won't work for that purpose:

"Unfortunately, the SN34 Fuel Link will only work on a basic fuel gauge. (one that doesn’t use a microprocessor) It doesn’t output a resistance and therefore your computer wouldn’t know what to do with the signal from the SN34.

Sorry we couldn’t help you with this."

Which I'm not sure I understand. AFAIK the sender just produces a resistance value, which goes directly to the PCM or gauge. If this thing translates the resistance from one sender to the resistance expected by a different gauge, I'm not sure why the PCM wouldn't see that same resistance. But I'm not inclined to spend $135 against their advice to find out. If we have any electronics wizards here, sound off!

 

[DangerNoodle]

Yes, CARB compliant cats, and the shop may require you to source it through them because their butt is on the line if they don't follow the rules and get caught. Don't go in there asking if they'll do something shady for you, especially over the phone. They'll probably stop talking to you immedietely - apparently there are stings run against them. The cats have to be the proper distance from he exhaust ports as well +- a few inches I think. Overall, it has to conform to the emissions from the donor vehicle. So if your donor had the downstream O2 sensors, you'll need to get those set up as well.

If you can, I'd hold off a few months and hopefully the cat prices come down to something not quite as insane.

While I'm typing this, I just got the call that it's done and ready to pick up!

Good to know. Technically, I don't need to run cats (76 40's never came with them) but I planning on it anyways. Thanks for the info!

 

[EricG]

Good to know. Technically, I don't need to run cats (76 40's never came with them) but I planning on it anyways. Thanks for the info!

On a swap it's based what was present on the engine donor vehicle (which has to be newer then or the same age as the recipient vehicle). So if the engine came from something that had cats, then you need them.

 

[DangerNoodle]

On a swap it's based what was present on the engine donor vehicle (which has to be newer then or the same age as the recipient vehicle). So if the engine came from something that had cats, then you need them.

This could get interesting. I have a crate engine...

 

[EricG]

This could get interesting. I have a crate engine...

Yea, I don't know how that's handled. There are some crate engine programs that are specifically emissions certified - GM E-ROD and the Cummins RePower stuff. But for everything else ... no idea.

 

[EricG]

Brought it home tonight - haven't gotten a good look under it yet, but it sounds good and drives good. Was fun merging onto I25 like a normal vehicle!

But the P0300 is back, and at one point the idle was very rough, So not sure what that's about. And it stalled twice when stopping at a light - I panicked a bit the first time when it wouldn't start again ... it's been so long since I've driven an auto that I forgot to shift back to park

 

[EricG]

So they recommended that I build a heat shield around the DS cat before driving it much because things were kind of tight. They weren't kidding. That's less then half an inch between the cat and the fuel line.

Considering whether I should take it back and ask them to make me some more clearance. Thoughts?

Edit - it's 1/4" clearance. I can just slide a piece of quarter inch steel between the cat & fuel line, touching both.

Can't see how I'd wrap a heat shield up around there without it rattling against one or the other and still being to hot. Gonna talk to them on Monday and see what they can do.

 

[DangerNoodle]

So they recommended that I build a heat shield around the DS cat before driving it much because things were kind of tight. They weren't kidding. That's less then half an inch between the cat and the brake line.
View attachment 2577439
Considering whether I should take it back and ask them to make me some more clearance. Thoughts?

Can they rotate the cat at all?

 

[EricG]

Can they rotate the cat at all?

Not really - downstream O2 sensor port is built into the cat, and that doesn't allow much rotation. Looking closer, that's not the brake line, it's the fuel lines.

 

[DangerNoodle]

Not really - downstream O2 sensor port is built into the cat, and that doesn't allow much rotation. Looking closer, that's not the brake line, it's the fuel lines.

I'd definitely see if you could get some more space then. I'd be pretty concerned that that would cause a lot of vapor lock if you are constantly heating your fuel.

 

[CO_Hunter]

That’s a bummer, too close for my comfort.

 

[EricG]

That’s a bummer, too close for my comfort.

Yea, definitely. Hope they don't give me a hard time to make it right. Kind of surprised they were ok with that.

In other news, I got the tach working, and almost certainly fixed the speedometer problem - but haven't tested that yet. Have to retape a bunch of harness once I check it out.

Did some reading on P0300 & cam swaps - sounds like once Todd can help me out with the tune, that should go away.

edit - Talked to Doug @ Muffler Masters today. Going to take it back on Thursday and they'll try to get me some more space around that cat.

 

[EricG]

Muffler Masters rebuilt the DS side of of the exhaust and got me alot more clearance! Got a heat shield built - it's still tight between the cat and the shifter linkage, but I haven't heard it rattle yet.

got that bolted up last night and took it for a ride - hoping to maybe make the club run today.but found that my electric fans weren't coming on, at it was getting hot when stopped and idling. Poked at it a little last night, but didn't have a good enough light to see that the nominally 25A fans are blowing 30A fuses. Looking online, that's not uncommon - glad I was generous with the wire gauge. Put some 40A fuses in and temp stays where it should!

Those same posts indicate that people are also failing the 30/40 relays on the regular as well, so I'm going to find some heavier ones.

I really am enjoying driving it - should definitely make the next run!

 

[EricG]

Got my new winch mounted yesterday - 12K Harbor Freight Badland. Yea, yea I know. We'll see how it goes. The old smittybilt was sounding like it was grinding rocks, and the rope was showing its age. Was going to remount the light bar on the bumper, but took a look at how rusty everything was and decided it will wait until I get some stainless steel hardware.

Created a new problem for myself - came across the aluminum heat shield that bolts up on the PS of transmission. What would have been a two minute job before the exhaust turned into a 20 minute job and a pair of busted knuckles now But I have to take it off again and give it a trim - it hits the front driveshaft when you flex it a bit.