Shock Length Thread

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Griffin said:
I was thinking about going with the icon smooth body, spc uca's, 2.5 lift. Just assuming at this point they are compatible.
Click to expand...

I say go for it. Chances are it will be a great set up, probably among the best available. If it doesn't work out the spc's would be easy to resell after just a test fit and then you could go with Carl's UCA and we'd all be eternally grateful to you for the knowledge gained.
 
I sent a PM to 'DylanICON' so hopefully we can get the rest of their specs soon.

Sounds like we're going to need to test them against the other UCA offerings as they have only been test fit with the JT UCA's.
 
FWIW, you need to make sure all shock lengths are done the same. Secondly you need to know what bushing / washer stack is used since there is a huge difference between what different companies use and that can add a lot of the measurements.
 
sleeoffroad said:
FWIW, you need to make sure all shock lengths are done the same. Secondly you need to know what bushing / washer stack is used since there is a huge difference between what different companies use and that can add a lot of the measurements.
Click to expand...

Definitely all true, I'm just trying to get a mounting surface to mounting surface list for reference. I'm hoping that the mounting surface is measured at the center of the bushing stack to the center of the eye but I suppose there could be some variation. The durometer and geometry of the stack will greatly affect real world for sure.

Obviously there is still more difference to add to the mix depending on the internal stops, how compliant they are and how much travel occurs after hitting the stop and how the stop impacts travel and weather or not the measurements are absolute or just to stop contact...

I would like to just pick up a set of each and have some fun but I don't think that would go over well at my house... I'm leaning toward the brand with the best local support ;)

Do you recommend any change in rear bump stops for yours (Slee Shocks)? How about front compatibility with the various UCA's on the market?
 
Sorry for the delay, I haven’t been keeping up on forums the last couple of days.
Here are the lengths and options for the 100 series


Front:
We are only doing a 2.5” diameter for the front however there are a couple options for length and reservoir.


57607: Front smooth body internal reservoir (IFP), standard travel for use with stock upper arms.
EXT:17.8” COMP: 12.85” TRAV: 4.95”


57807: Front remote reservoir extended travel. MUST use aftermarket upper arm for shock clearance. This shock has the same valving but has a bump zone and reservoir for more heat capacity.
EXT:18.18” COMP: 12.85” TRAV: 5.33”


57807C: Front remote reservoir extended travel W/CDC compression valve. MUST use aftermarket upper arm for shock clearance. This shock has the same valving as above when on setting #4 but can be adjusted firmer or softer on compression (10 total settings) and also has the bump zone and reservoir for more heat capacity.
EXT:18.18” COMP: 12.85” TRAV: 5.33”






Rear:
We are doing 2.0” and 2.5” with a compression adjuster option on the 2.5”


56510: Rear. 2.0” internal reservoir (IFP),
EXT:25.67” COMP: 15.6” TRAV: 10.07”


57802: Rear 2.5” remote reservoir, W/ bump zone
EXT:26.3” COMP: 15.97” TRAV: 10.33”


57802C: Rear 2.5” remote reservoir, W/CDC compression valve and bump zone. This shock has the same valving as above when on setting #4 but can be adjusted firmer or softer on compression (10 total settings)
EXT:26.3” COMP: 15.97” TRAV: 10.33”
 
sleeoffroad said:
We measure the shocks from center of eyelet to lip where the first washer sit and not to the middle of the bushing stack. Not sure about other measurements.
Click to expand...


We also measure from the lip at the base of bushing stack as does Bilstien and I believe the rest do as well.


As you mentioned the bushing thickness and compliance is a factor. the rear isn't that critical but the front is very much so!


Our bushing to mounting surface is about .700" when clamped. For this IFS application we use a heavy duty washer and harder durometer bushing to minimize the extra deflection when the shock hits droop.
 
DylanICON said:
We also measure from the lip at the base of bushing stack as does Bilstien and I believe the rest do as well.


As you mentioned the bushing thickness and compliance is a factor. the rear isn't that critical but the front is very much so!


Our bushing to mounting surface is about .700" when clamped. For this IFS application we use a heavy duty washer and harder durometer bushing to minimize the extra deflection when the shock hits droop.
Click to expand...

Dylan,
Thanks a lot for the info and length specs! Much appreciated!
 
thanks a lot Dylan. and everyone else that has supplied info for this thread it has been a good one I think for the proportion that are interested in this stuff...I do agree with Carl's statement about the mixed messages in regards to techy figures and such but I do feel that with the nature of premium suspension lends itself to this in depth information because blokes who just want kits probably wont be running it..for the most part it is the people that are wanting to push the capabilities of their rigs and for that the more information gathered the better...especially as most would already have a lot of the suspension components and just want to know about the shocks...especially as no one has them on Mud yet...HURRYYY UUPPPP!!!I want reviews!!!


Anyway not looking to stir the pot I respect everyone's input and I am saving every spare penny I can get to get what I think will be the ultimate 100 series suspension lift...


Cheers, Josh.
 
Also, vendors kits have lead to problems in the last (see radflo). So double checking for yourself always seems like a good idea. It might give the vendors and manufacturers a headache up front. But that's better than having to deal with mistakes after the fact.

We should rename this "shock length thread"
 
Tried for you mate couldn't do it...might have to be an admin job. it's a bloody good thread though!
 
Cleaned up the list in my first post. Really appreciate all the vendor input here allowing us to get all of this in one place and good discussions to boot.
 
I would like to add:

An important consideration to keep in mind relative to shock lengths is how this correlates and is directly related/important to suspension travel and protection of the shock, the UCA and other ancillary components. Travel typically on our 100's IFS is limited at full droop by the shock; however this is related and can be dependent upon what UCA is utilized. So, for example, if said shock is designed for more droop stop but the joint (ball joint, spherical bearing) bottoms out before the shock 'stop' you'll accelerate wear on the balljoint/spherical bearing or worse; you don't want the ball joint or spherical ("Uni-Ball") to be the limit for droop and compression! This consideration also applies to the arm of the UCA and its relationship with the frame brackets...someone posted a photo of the SPC arm bottomed out on the frame bracket...this is another example of what not to do!

Likewise on the compression side its important to know the measurement between the shock mount locations at full compressed stop of the suspension. Determining this measurement can be a little tricky as the compression bump stops are made of rubber and have some over-travel that is related to the applied force.

Given how relatively limited the front suspension travel is on our IFS, especially the shock itself, if you're like me you want to take advantage of a majority of this travel and therefore don't want to sacrifice an inch or more of said travel added in for extra assurance from the various component manufacturers (shock, UCA and bump stops)...in essence covering their butts from a liability perspective.

For the individual component manufacturers it represents either lost travel and/or increased liability outside their control; Carl and Christo alluded to this very real world issue.

To sum this up: To maximize the travel of our front IFS suspension and to reduce the overall liability of swapping a given shock into an unknown system its important to think about the collection of components as a "system"...again per what Carl spoke about.

The other and arguably better/best method is to cycle the front (rear too for that matter) the suspension without the shock and spring in the equation and measure the full droop out dimension and the fully compressed dimension. This is the best and only way I know of to guarantee performance of the system as well as protection for the related components. The shock's droop out dimension (extended measurement) should be just shy of the suspensions full static droop out (approximately a minimum of 1/4" assuming full compression of any non-rigid droop stop). And the compression bump stop(s) should completely isolate the shock's compressed length and balljoint/spherical bearing top out to eliminate premature wear of these components (or worse).

If you take the time to cycle and measure the maximum and minimum dimensions for your suspension's travel you won't waste: Time, money and safety if left to chance...

Just my $.02...
 
^^^ That is all accurate and needs to be considered by anyone going a-la-cart on suspension. I too understand the kit offerings but want to put my own system together. All of the above and more is paramount to doing it right and is why we need the length and travel numbers available for reference and as a starting point.
 
For you guys ordering shocks: How do you know what length (compressed and extended) you need?
 
Done. Several times and run for 100k miles plus.... when cycling the front suspension without the torsion bar in place it is disapointing to find that only about 3.5" of shock travel is used from full extension to the lower arm on the factory bumpstop. The front suspension uses only a small portion of the and is only made smaller by raising the ride height since most aftermarket shocks do not increase in length over stock. Small increase in shock length equate to larger gains in travel at the wheel, and drastically reduces the amount of preload that forces the shock to full extension. This along with the added droop keeping the wheel on the ground more often gives a much better ride. Similar results can be achieved by simply keeping lift height to a minimum.


spressomon said:
I would like to add:

An important consideration to keep in mind relative to shock lengths is how this correlates and is directly related/important to suspension travel and protection of the shock, the UCA and other ancillary components. Travel typically on our 100's IFS is limited at full droop by the shock; however this is related and can be dependent upon what UCA is utilized. So, for example, if said shock is designed for more droop stop but the joint (ball joint, spherical bearing) bottoms out before the shock 'stop' you'll accelerate wear on the balljoint/spherical bearing or worse; you don't want the ball joint or spherical ("Uni-Ball") to be the limit for droop and compression! This consideration also applies to the arm of the UCA and its relationship with the frame brackets...someone posted a photo of the SPC arm bottomed out on the frame bracket...this is another example of what not to do!

Likewise on the compression side its important to know the measurement between the shock mount locations at full compressed stop of the suspension. Determining this measurement can be a little tricky as the compression bump stops are made of rubber and have some over-travel that is related to the applied force.

Given how relatively limited the front suspension travel is on our IFS, especially the shock itself, if you're like me you want to take advantage of a majority of this travel and therefore don't want to sacrifice an inch or more of said travel added in for extra assurance from the various component manufacturers (shock, UCA and bump stops)...in essence covering their butts from a liability perspective.

For the individual component manufacturers it represents either lost travel and/or increased liability outside their control; Carl and Christo alluded to this very real world issue.

To sum this up: To maximize the travel of our front IFS suspension and to reduce the overall liability of swapping a given shock into an unknown system its important to think about the collection of components as a "system"...again per what Carl spoke about.

The other and arguably better/best method is to cycle the front (rear too for that matter) the suspension without the shock and spring in the equation and measure the full droop out dimension and the fully compressed dimension. This is the best and only way I know of to guarantee performance of the system as well as protection for the related components. The shock's droop out dimension (extended measurement) should be just shy of the suspensions full static droop out (approximately a minimum of 1/4" assuming full compression of any non-rigid droop stop). And the compression bump stop(s) should completely isolate the shock's compressed length and balljoint/spherical bearing top out to eliminate premature wear of these components (or worse).

If you take the time to cycle and measure the maximum and minimum dimensions for your suspension's travel you won't waste: Time, money and safety if left to chance...

Just my $.02...
Click to expand...
 
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