Service tech needed on Island

[Island Moose]

Well I took the BJ70 to Duncan Toyota, and they "worked on it" for an hour. The service manager says that they have "absolutely no documentation" on this vehicle, and that they accomplished nothing. They actually want me to take it away as they don't think they can go any further with it...(sigh).

I don't exactly know where to turn at this point, it might be as simple as an air bubble in the pump, or bad timing, or an air leak...but these guys have never even seen this pump style before. It's a Denso/Bosch VE style pump, they're in thousands of different trucks and utility equipment.

In any case, can you guys on the Island and the mainland ask around...I have to tow it wherever, so I need something on the Island. I'm going to call the local Dodge guys now.

 

[Stone]

Shooting in the dark here, but would Hino technicians be of any help? Maybe that pump was used in some Hino trucks and they know something about it? I don't know, but it might be worth a phone call to your local Hino dealer? Sorry I can't be of any more help...good luck.

 

[Island Moose]

So far I've got a call into P&R Western Star in Duncan (diesel specialtists). Dodge won't touch it. Everyone says the same thing though "it's your timing".

P&R sell and service Hinos as well.

 

[Greg_B]

Moose...do you have another vehicle for the next while? Why not wait till a manual shows up, then take it to the shop you most trust, have their techs read and learn, then work the engine.

gb

 

[crushers]

strange, did you adjust your timing at all? if not then why would it be out? i would suggest a elec pump at the tank and then bleed it for a while to make sure there is no air...
also did you triple check all conections?
other than this, till i get mine in the end of this coming week i am shooting a blank...
sorry

 

[Island Moose]

I didn't adjust the timing, but the leading theory is the previous owner did to compensate for the fading injectors. If the P&R guys can't assure me that they know the system, then I will indeed sit on it until I get a copy of the manual.

BTW, does anyone out there have the procedure/specs for adjusting the rotary pump that they can scan and e-mail to me? It would be in a BJ74 manual I believe, something after 1987 with the rotary pump as seen in the thread I started about differences.


jcmorrison@shaw.ca

 

[crushers]

the BJ74 manual is only chassis, i will check my manuals and see what they have... i have the 1HZ manual which is rotory pump...

 

[seapotato]

I haven't been to duncan toyota in 5 years even tho it's the closest dealer to me. after the prick at the desk wanted me to come in and prepay for a 3 dollar shifter bushing because " we don't see many of those weird old trucks" ( dripping with implied criticisms and vague doubts on the honesty of anyone who drove one)

I have the max ellery book, I'll have a look tomorrow if that has rotory pump specs in it. if so, I'm back and forth from duncan to nanaimo several times a week ( in a butt ugly green bj40 with a 45 half cab on it)

cheers,
ryan

 

[Radd Cruisers]

I haven't been to duncan toyota in 5 years even tho it's the closest dealer to me. after the prick at the desk wanted me to come in and prepay for a 3 dollar shifter bushing because " we don't see many of those weird old trucks" ( dripping with implied criticisms and vague doubts on the honesty of anyone who drove one)

I have the max ellery book, I'll have a look tomorrow if that has rotory pump specs in it. if so, I'm back and forth from duncan to nanaimo several times a week ( in a butt ugly green bj40 with a 45 half cab on it)

cheers,
ryan

Hey Ryan, comming on over to the darks side I see.............

Not to steal the thread, but we wheeled Mt Sicker two weeks ago and what a hoot.

Looking forward to seeing the Moose rig, never seen a soft to 7 series.

 

[Greg_B]

BTW, does anyone out there have the procedure/specs for adjusting the rotary pump that they can scan and e-mail to me? It would be in a BJ74 manual I believe, something after 1987 with the rotary pump as seen in the thread I started about differences.jcmorrison@shaw.ca

The BJ74 uses the 13BT, which is not rotory. It is inline, till the end of it's run afaik....At least my spring 1989 BJ74 is inline.

gb

 

[cruiser_guy]

Why is timing of the rotary going to be different from the inline pump? The timing of the inline pump has NOTHING to do with the pump internals. It's a factor of how the pump is inclined on the engine and is adjusted to compensate for when the fuel first surfaces at a cut down injection tube.
Personally though, I doubt it's timing unless the pump is loose on the engine or you've loosened it to remove/install injection lines.

 

[Greg_B]

Hi Charles.

I'm no pump guru, however reading the Max Ellery's manual which incudes the procedure for timing the inline "B".s "H"'s and "L"s it appears two different methods and tools are used with inline and rotory pumps.

The inline appears fairly simple, with the test injection pipe put in the # 1 delivery valve holder of the injection pipe after lining up the timing groove on the main crank pulley matched with cylinder #1 rockers loose etc...

The rotory 2L/2LT procedure uses a plunger stroke measuring tool and dial indicator, and a different procedure (you can set to #1 or #4 to 45* BTDC, and then measure plunger stroke etc...

I don't know if the 3BII uses the same method as the 2L-2LT, however seeing as both are rotory pump chances are it is closer to the 2L methods (using the same tools) then the 3B/13BT/2H/12HT method.

gb

 

[crushers]

there should a mark on the injection pump where it bolts to the housing. a flat line that goes across both almost like a pencil line. is this still lined up? if not which way is it pointing, before or after the mark on the housing, this is a good indicator the timing has been adjusted.
the is a warning not to move the pump more than 45 degrees fromt the horizontal.
acording to the 1HZ HDJ 1PZ manual and i quote:
compared with the previous 4 cylinder engines, the 0mm position is reduced so perform the operation carefully.
what i gather from this is that the 2LT and the 3B rotory pump share the same proceedures, so the 2LT manual will be of great benefit to you.
also what i gather is that the 3B nozzles till 88/08 are the same.
i am not sure if this helps at all.
cheers

 

[cruiser_guy]

Hi Charles.

I'm no pump guru, however reading the Max Ellery's manual which incudes the procedure for timing the inline "B".s "H"'s and "L"s it appears two different methods and tools are used with inline and rotory pumps.

The inline appears fairly simple, with the test injection pipe put in the # 1 delivery valve holder of the injection pipe after lining up the timing groove on the main crank pulley matched with cylinder #1 rockers loose etc...

The rotory 2L/2LT procedure uses a plunger stroke measuring tool and dial indicator, and a different procedure (you can set to #1 or #4 to 45* BTDC, and then measure plunger stroke etc...

I don't know if the 3BII uses the same method as the 2L-2LT, however seeing as both are rotory pump chances are it is closer to the 2L methods (using the same tools) then the 3B/13BT/2H/12HT method.

gb

The method in the manual might be different but wouldn't it make logical sense that the 3B needs the fuel from the rotary pump at the same time as the inline pump? I'm no pump guru either and I KNOW you've seen more than me. Does the rotary pump model use a different timing pulley setup or does the rotary pump advance or retard the timing differently from an inline? I was of the impression all the timing advance was done through the timing pulley in the timing cover on the front of the engine (the one driving the pump).

Just my musings. I'd still try a different fuel scavenging line for the injectors 'cause that's where I'd put my money. I've seen them break and I've inadvertently torqued mine when removing/replacing injectors and I know they are not real strong.

btw. I have a spare inline pump that needs a rebuild if you want to give up on the rotary.

 

[Greg_B]

Hi Charles. With your travels and help to other cultures, I'm sure have seen way more then me

It looks to me the method and tools for measuring/adjusting the timing of the injection pump on the engine, in the truck is different between both...

You could well be correct with the scavenging line.

gb

 

[Island Moose]

They do indeed require different approaches. The rotary needs a $250USD kit with dial caliper to do it. I think this must be for minute adjustment though, as it does have pump housing-block alignment marks as well.

 

[Greg_B]

Morning Moose. Are the marks on the housing/block lined up or not? You are correct; minor adjustments are done using those marks as a datum, the timing mark on the main crank pulley, and procedures/tools as listed in the engine manual.

gb

 

[Island Moose]

They are slightly off...