Seeking solution for new tire & wheel rub *Pictures included*

[HGB]

Had these wheels since last year, but had them mounted on 265/65/17 KO2’s and hated how small they looked (inch smaller than stock diameter).

I purchased a new to me 2013 LX, and was able to trade the KO2’s towards a set of Michelin Defenders for my 20” factory wheels.

I like to be able to change wheel setups, so now I am putting on 275/70/17 KO2’s on the Method wheels.

My friend has this exact setup on his 2011 LX and said once he removed the mud flaps, he has no rubbing.

I am rubbing on the mud flap (and it looks like fender liner closest to the frame of the car, as opposed to the front bumper) so I am not sure if simply the mudflaps being removed would remedy the rub.

I would like to think the 2013 and 2011 are the same (outside of front bumper) so I should be fine once I remove the mudflaps.

As an aside, I know I’m rubbing due to the aggressive offset of the wheel, but I enjoy the look and I already own it. Rock warriors etc don’t do it for me, so ideally answers in this thread are given under the assumption that we will not change the wheel.

Now my concerns:

1) Will fender lining trimming (if needed)cause issues in a state that has snow/road salt spread semi-often during the winter? If so, would a heat gun likely give enough space while also preventing salt from entering and touching the body or frame where it's vulnerable?

2) Does the heavier tire and larger size (32.2”) stress the drivetrain or motor on a vehicle with 155,000 miles to the point where you’d be concerned? Or is this a negligible difference?

I know these are not particularly nuanced questions, but I have searched and haven't found the answers. Thanks for your diplomacy in addressing my concerns.

I had them mounted for a test fit, but plan to pull the trigger on tires during Black Friday sales.

wheel and tire specs:
17 x 8.5 5x150 0 offset

49770 part number is MR30578558500

Black rig is mine, White is my friends. He lives in another state so I can’t go get hands on it anytime soon.

 

[Markuson]

Edit:
The following doesn't answer your two questions...
------
Your problem is the ZERO offset of those wheels.

No question.

Stick to around 20mm or more (stock is 60mm...rock warriors are 50). At zero offset? That is creating a massively extended sweep when your wheels turn.

Basically, you have pushed your tires outward 6 centimeters on each side. So...when you turn...the edge is sticking out 60mm farther toward your wheel well...flaps, etc.

 

[HGB]

Your problem is the zero offset of those wheels.

No question.

Stick to around 20mm (stock is 60mm...rock warriors are 50). At zero offset? That is creating a massively extended sweep when your wheels turn.

markuson, you are always so helpful and informative in your posts, but in this instance I would kindly request you re-read my post and understand that I am not willing to change these method wheels. If these wheels are not going to work without causing damage to my truck, then I will simply use the stock 20 inch wheels.

I posted two questions that I would like answered and I had requested that we operate under the assumption that I will not consider a different wheel. Without insulting anyone’s taste, rock warriors, icons, etc are not of my taste or style at all.

 

[Markuson]

markuson, you are always so helpful and informative in your posts, but in this instance I would kindly request you re-read my post and understand that I am not willing to change these method wheels. If these wheels are not going to work without causing damage to my truck, then I will simply use the stock 20 inch wheels.

I posted two questions that I would like answered and I had requested that we operate under the assumption that I will not consider a different wheel. Without insulting anyone’s taste, rock warriors are not of my taste or style at all.

Ah.
OK.
You are right.

Reading is actually difficult for me due to triple vision problem. Have to zoom in and out constantly to decipher stuff when eyes are particularly bad (vision center of my brain is screwed up...no joke).

So I assumed wrongly that you were just trying a wheel.

Sorry.

About road salt and fender liners...
Treated roads are at their worst when wet...and when wet...that crud flies EVERYWHERE as a mist not only from your tires, but from vehicles throwing mist at you as you follow....including coating your entire engine bay. So in my humble opinion, I don’t think the skirting is protecting us from road treatments anyway. I came back from Silverton wetness (post snow) with NASTY road treatment throughout EVERYTHING.

As to chopping stuff out... Even on 50mm offset and 285/70/17, mud flaps usually have to come out, so I wouldn’t hesitate to remove flaps. Re Heat gun question...if you are willing to cut anyway, then there is no real downside to attempting to reshape with heat gun first. I’ve done both with various setups...

By the way... You can’t offend me over not being a fan of Rock Warriors. Wheel looks are a totally subjective thing. Personally, the only reason wheel looks are lower on my priority list is because I’m so rough on my wheels...so having super nice ones would only emphasize the scrapes I inevitably put on them.

I’m sure others will give you the input you seek.

 

[Mogwai]

@drftsub is running some zero offset wheels (and 35s), maybe he has some advice.

 

[Markuson]

@drftsub is running some zero offset wheels (and 35s), maybe he has some advice.

Ya, there was at least one other who posted success of same...but I don't recall ever hearing any follow-up regarding actual use or wheeling.

Plenty of ways to stuff massive things under there...but not my cup of tea at this point.

 

[empty80]

I’m running 33” with 0mm offset. I’ve removed my mud flaps, and have cut a fair amount of fender liner out from the front of the wheel wells. The front fascia is a little less stable, but I can live with it. I don’t have any issues with mud and such being flung into the engine compartment. I do get a fair bit of rooster tail down the side of the vehicle, but the BudBuilt sliders eat most of the nasty stuff. On road the offset feels fine, off-road I feel very stable and the extra track width helps. I can’t say I have noticed any real impact to parking lot maneuverability.

You may or may not notice the additional weight of a heavier AT, but that depends on your driving style. I have noticed a more aggressive wear on the outer shoulders of the tires. You have to consider positive scrub radius with the active drive axle in the front.

While I don’t hate my setup, I do have a set of the Method 701 with +25mm offset on the way. Let me know if I can explain anything better.

 

[Markuson]

I’m running 33” with 0mm offset. I’ve removed my mud flaps, and have cut a fair amount of fender liner out from the front of the wheel wells. The front fascia is a little less stable, but I can live with it. I don’t have any issues with mud and such being flung into the engine compartment. I do get a fair bit of rooster tail down the side of the vehicle, but the BudBuilt sliders eat most of the nasty stuff. On road the offset feels fine, off-road I feel very stable and the extra track width helps. I can’t say I have noticed any real impact to parking lot maneuverability.

You may or may not notice the additional weight of a heavier AT, but that depends on your driving style. I have noticed a more aggressive wear on the outer shoulders of the tires. You have to consider positive scrub radius with the active drive axle in the front.

While I don’t hate my setup, I do have a set of the Method 701 with +25mm offset on the way. Let me know if I can explain anything better.

I think your move to +25 is smart. Keeps a wider stance without too much poke.
Plus...the people behind you while driving in gravel will appreciate it.

 

[timjax]

I'm running 17x8.5 +0 Method's on 285/70R17 without a suspension lift or adjustable UCA's.

I heat gunned the fender liner around where it made contact, then re-drilled the front of the liner forward closer to the bumper ("4Runner Fender Liner Mod"). This handled the rub at the front of the wheel well.

I kept my mudflaps, but trimmed a lot of it away, mainly the entire center section, but keeping the "visible" section that deflects the spray up on the sides of the vehicle, as well as on the underside near the running boards. There's a line that you can follow to trim the mudflaps down if you just want to keep the part of the mudflap you see when looking down the side of the vehicle from the rear. This however would unfortunately make you lose the section of the mudflap that deflects spray towards the center of the truck, so I'm not sure if this introduces the salt issues you were worried about. But at least you can have protection for the sides of the vehicle and the edges of the bottom.

I was rubbing on the corner of the rocker panel underneath the mudflap actually, so I trimmed the plastic of that at a 45 degree angle or so, and then took a sawzall to the bracket that was holding that rocker panel corner in place. I also did the OEM front coil spacer lift, I'm not sure if that helped with the rub specifically or not. I go a little bit more in-depth of what I did on my build thread.

Hope this helps.

 

[TeCKis300]

1) Will fender lining trimming (if needed)cause issues in a state that has snow/road salt spread semi-often during the winter? If so, would a heat gun likely give enough space while also preventing salt from entering and touching the body or frame where it's vulnerable?

2) Does the heavier tire and larger size (32.2”) stress the drivetrain or motor on a vehicle with 155,000 miles to the point where you’d be concerned? Or is this a negligible difference?

1) My fitment is different than yours. But I went through the effort to re-contour both the front of the wheel well and mudflap explicitly because of your concern. If you remove the mudflap, you will readily see where there are exposed pockets in the chassis and frame where they can and will catch and hold spray, and unfortunately along with it, corrosive salts. It's something significant enough that IMHO, would say deserves consideration.

2) Not at that size, you're not going to test the durability of the cruiser. It's smaller than the OEM approved RW fitment with a 285/70/17 (32.7") tire.

Not a question you asked, but a more significant consideration that I'd suggest you consider is maintaining good suspension geometry with proper offset wheels. 0 offset wheels don't just impact clearance, but have a significant negative impact on handling. Lookup scrub radius. I'd go so far to say that I wouldn't touch anything less than ~30mm offset.

@timjax shows a great example. Would point out that the LX has different side steps and mudflap that requires slightly different alterations. Try here

Modifying Splash Gaurds for 33's

Many of us with 33s (and larger) have had to remove the front splash guards. While it's a quick and easy solution, my intention has always been to modify the guards to maintain underbody protection and aesthetics. Without the guards, the tire kicks debris into the underbody, and more...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[HGB]

1) My fitment is different than yours. But I went through the effort to re-contour both the front of the wheel well and mudflap explicitly because of your concern. If you remove the mudflap, you will readily see where there are exposed pockets in the chassis and frame where they can and will catch and hold spray, and unfortunately along with it, corrosive salts. It's something significant enough that IMHO, would say deserves consideration.

2) Not at that size, you're not going to test the durability of the cruiser. It's smaller than the OEM approved RW fitment with a 285/70/17 (32.7") tire.

Not a question you asked, but a more significant consideration that I'd suggest you consider is maintaining good suspension geometry with proper offset wheels. 0 offset wheels don't just impact clearance, but have a significant negative impact on handling. Lookup scrub radius. I'd go so far to say that I wouldn't touch anything less than ~30mm offset.

@timjax shows a great example. Would point out that the LX has different side steps and mudflap that requires slightly different alterations. Try here

Modifying Splash Gaurds for 33's

Many of us with 33s (and larger) have had to remove the front splash guards. While it's a quick and easy solution, my intention has always been to modify the guards to maintain underbody protection and aesthetics. Without the guards, the tire kicks debris into the underbody, and more...

forum.ih8mud.com

@TeCKis300 thank you for the informative post and link to fender / mud guard mod. You have confirmed my concern is valid.

Your second point about scrub radius- is this a safety issue, or merely an issue that lowers performance a bit? I can compromise performance, but not if it increases risk of rollover, etc.

i looked into scrub radius (something I had never heard of) and found there are some preferences for road vs racing... but would these 0 offset wheels give me positive scrub radius or negative?

 

[HGB]

I'm running 17x8.5 +0 Method's on 285/70R17 without a suspension lift or adjustable UCA's.

I heat gunned the fender liner around where it made contact, then re-drilled the front of the liner forward closer to the bumper ("4Runner Fender Liner Mod"). This handled the rub at the front of the wheel well.

I kept my mudflaps, but trimmed a lot of it away, mainly the entire center section, but keeping the "visible" section that deflects the spray up on the sides of the vehicle, as well as on the underside near the running boards. There's a line that you can follow to trim the mudflaps down if you just want to keep the part of the mudflap you see when looking down the side of the vehicle from the rear. This however would unfortunately make you lose the section of the mudflap that deflects spray towards the center of the truck, so I'm not sure if this introduces the salt issues you were worried about. But at least you can have protection for the sides of the vehicle and the edges of the bottom.

I was rubbing on the corner of the rocker panel underneath the mudflap actually, so I trimmed the plastic of that at a 45 degree angle or so, and then took a sawzall to the bracket that was holding that rocker panel corner in place. I also did the OEM front coil spacer lift, I'm not sure if that helped with the rub specifically or not. I go a little bit more in-depth of what I did on my build thread.

Hope this helps.

View attachment 2119560

helped a ton, thank you Tim. Do you see any issues with teckis ’ point about handling with zero offset wheels?

 

[timjax]

helped a ton, thank you Tim. Do you see any issues with teckis ’ point about handling with zero offset wheels?

Glad to help!

Yes, scrub radius is a thing to consider, but I would say +0 is not extremely unfit to run. The guys who run crazy with it are the domestic bro trucks/mall crawlers you see around with the absurd 20x14 -20 wheels with rubber band tires.

The main effects are toe-out during acceleration, and toe-in during braking. Steering feel could change as well, and it affects tire wear and what components receive more/less strain or impact.

I would say +0 offset is definitely a limit I would not go past, +18mm or so is a safer limit, and around +25-35mm or greater is safest. If I had custom wheels made for myself, I would most likely go with around a 17x8.5 +30 fitment for still being flush to the fenders without negative performance factors/rubbing. Also, increasing tire diameter can slightly alleviate some effects against scrub radius since it changes the angle of contact.

If someone was asking me the highest performance and most balanced Land Cruiser 200 setup possible, I would most likely recommend EvoCorse DakarZero's (17x8 +40) on 285/70R17 Falken Wildpeak AT3W or General Grabber ATX for stellar on and off road performance.

I personally have not noticed detriments to handling, and anything I can think of seems to be imagined/placebo. It should supposedly be a bit more planted with the lower offset since the track is wider, and I have not seen any noticeable differences with acceleration, deceleration, or turning. My personal reasoning was that I estimated low-speed off roading and normal city/highway driving would not hinge on 0 offset specifically causing issues. Simple imagination leads me to think a lower offset would lead to less risk of rollover, but I bet there's a lot more physics at play than just wheel offset.

I went with the 0 offset primarily for looks, the wheel I liked most came in that fitment only for 17". I also do like the look 0 offset gives, with the aggressive and planted stance it takes.

 

[empty80]

I think your move to +25 is smart. Keeps a wider stance without too much poke.
Plus...the people behind you while driving in gravel will appreciate it.

I was really worried about that during LCDC, especially when we were scooting from one place to the next. No one said anything, so I assume nothing bad happened. Funny enough though, on our way home, I did catch a flyer from a car headed the opposite direction in between Durango and Pagosa Springs. Now that the temps are coming down, it's starting to spread.

 

[TeCKis300]

@timjax answered it well!

Whether one notices it or not really depends on expectations and how hard one drives the vehicle. Handling impacts are such that the handling gets worse and more sloppy in corning, acceleration, braking, etc., on account of geometry not being correct. There are more subtle things too. It's called scrub radius because when the front wheels turn, there is now a deviation between left and right tire paths, because they no longer point towards the exact same virtual path, and scrub to fight each other. Resulting in things like
turning radius increases, or in low traction environments such as snow/ice the tendency to slip while cornering easier, among others. The further out the offset, the more pronounced these effects.

Here's some more discussion on scrub radius

Spacers, scrub radius, etc?

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[drftsub]

@HGB I responded to your posts on my build thread, however I now notice that you are in an LX, so your clearancing requirements may be a little different that what I did.

As to the handling changes from moving to a +0 offset with 35's, I will say since I added the 35's that the handling is different, but not bad. I went from a fairly short sidewall to a much taller one, and on top of that my tires are 10.5" wide which adds a different dynamic and actually helps the scrub radius factor compared to a wide tire.

I do know what a properly setup vehilce should feel like in the curves, and commute mountain roads daily so there is plenty of time for handling problems to be noticed. I think the scrub radius concerns, while absolutley valid considering moving away from a geometrically ideal setup, do not really represent much as far as real world feel goes considering we are driving big heavy pigs around, IMHO.

 

[HGB]

Glad to help!

Yes, scrub radius is a thing to consider, but I would say +0 is not extremely unfit to run. The guys who run crazy with it are the domestic bro trucks/mall crawlers you see around with the absurd 20x14 -20 wheels with rubber band tires.

The main effects are toe-out during acceleration, and toe-in during braking. Steering feel could change as well, and it affects tire wear and what components receive more/less strain or impact.

I would say +0 offset is definitely a limit I would not go past, +18mm or so is a safer limit, and around +25-35mm or greater is safest. If I had custom wheels made for myself, I would most likely go with around a 17x8.5 +30 fitment for still being flush to the fenders without negative performance factors/rubbing. Also, increasing tire diameter can slightly alleviate some effects against scrub radius since it changes the angle of contact.

If someone was asking me the highest performance and most balanced Land Cruiser 200 setup possible, I would most likely recommend EvoCorse DakarZero's (17x8 +40) on 285/70R17 Falken Wildpeak AT3W or General Grabber ATX for stellar on and off road performance.

I personally have not noticed detriments to handling, and anything I can think of seems to be imagined/placebo. It should supposedly be a bit more planted with the lower offset since the track is wider, and I have not seen any noticeable differences with acceleration, deceleration, or turning. My personal reasoning was that I estimated low-speed off roading and normal city/highway driving would not hinge on 0 offset specifically causing issues. Simple imagination leads me to think a lower offset would lead to less risk of rollover, but I bet there's a lot more physics at play than just wheel offset.

I went with the 0 offset primarily for looks, the wheel I liked most came in that fitment only for 17". I also do like the look 0 offset gives, with the aggressive and planted stance it takes.
View attachment 2119630
View attachment 2119629

Tim, you’ve been a wealth of help. I’ll just be daily driving and visiting the horse stables with this rig. Sounds like I’ll be fine with 0 offset.
Here’s a photo of a friend of a friends truck with 0 offset and 275/70/17 tires. I think he just had to remove mudflaps. In this photo, he has the truck in Hi mode. Thoughts on getting this to work without cutting away my fender liner? Seems possible right?!

Another question- at my mileage, does this seem likely to accelerate wheel bearing wear?

I was really worried about that during LCDC, especially when we were scooting from one place to the next. No one said anything, so I assume nothing bad happened. Funny enough though, on our way home, I did catch a flyer from a car headed the opposite direction in between Durango and Pagosa Springs. Now that the temps are coming down, it's starting to spread.

glad it worked well for ya!

@timjax answered it well!

Whether one notices it or not really depends on expectations and how hard one drives the vehicle. Handling impacts are such that the handling gets worse and more sloppy in corning, acceleration, braking, etc., on account of geometry not being correct. There are more subtle things too. It's called scrub radius because when the front wheels turn, there is now a deviation between left and right tire paths, because they no longer point towards the exact same virtual path, and scrub to fight each other. Resulting in things like
turning radius increases, or in low traction environments such as snow/ice the tendency to slip while cornering easier, among others. The further out the offset, the more pronounced these effects.

Here's some more discussion on scrub radius

Spacers, scrub radius, etc?

forum.ih8mud.com

thanks teck! Good read.

@HGB I responded to your posts on my build thread, however I now notice that you are in an LX, so your clearancing requirements may be a little different that what I did.

As to the handling changes from moving to a +0 offset with 35's, I will say since I added the 35's that the handling is different, but not bad. I went from a fairly short sidewall to a much taller one, and on top of that my tires are 10.5" wide which adds a different dynamic and actually helps the scrub radius factor compared to a wide tire.

I do know what a properly setup vehilce should feel like in the curves, and commute mountain roads daily so there is plenty of time for handling problems to be noticed. I think the scrub radius concerns, while absolutley valid considering moving away from a geometrically ideal setup, do not really represent much as far as real world feel goes considering we are driving big heavy pigs around, IMHO.

agree- as long as these are not safety issues, I’m OK with any slight performance compromise.

Another question- at my mileage, does this seem likely to accelerate wheel bearing

 

[Kurosawa]

I run the same 0 offset wheel and 34" Toyo Open Country II's. I have just the slightest touch of rubbing, really so slight it's hardly worth mentioning and only then in reverse turning situations. I have a number of other suspension upgrades that may or may not be helping alleviate a more distinct rub that could occur on a stock suspension setup but you may be interested in the photos I have in the build thread linked in my signature.

 

[HGB]

Edit:
The following doesn't answer your two questions...
------
Your problem is the ZERO offset of those wheels.

No question.

Stick to around 20mm or more (stock is 60mm...rock warriors are 50). At zero offset? That is creating a massively extended sweep when your wheels turn.

Basically, you have pushed your tires outward 6 centimeters on each side. So...when you turn...the edge is sticking out 60mm farther toward your wheel well...flaps, etc.

well... smarter heads have prevailed. Thank you @Markuson

I’m selling my methods because I want to run 285/70/17 Michelin defenders.

what offset range should work to fit these wheels on a non lifted LX570?