Searching for 2B Head Gasket

[RedHeadedStepChild]

You're familiar with the first site Jim ... That's cruiserparts.net (which if I'm not mistaken is where your BJ44 came from)..

The second one is: cylinderheads.co.nz.

Here's the link to the NZ supplier where they have good pics for making a thorough visual comparison:
http://www.cylinderheads.co.nz/100-Toyota-Cylinder-Head

Interesting that the pics show the precups, freeze plugs, valve guides and valve seats already fitted for the $720 price tag too.

I think I'd want to verify that.

And I'd also want to clarify/verify whether it's really new or whether it is "refurbished second-hand".

(I know the advertising says "old" but that word used in that context is ambiguous...)

If it is new then it probably comes from Taiwan but that isn't necessarily bad because that's where most of the parts supplied by Engine Australia come from AFAIK and I haven't heard anything negative about them.

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From reading the advertising it appears that some heads are made for different valve covers (apart from the problems we've heard about with different valve sizes etc) so I think that's something to beware of.

Yes Cruiserparts.net is where the truck came from.

I reached out to Cylinderheads.co.nz via email and they responded that the head pictured there (if bare) $425.00 NZD (approx $352.00USD)
FedEx Shipping to North Carolina would be $590.00NZD (approx $489.00USD)
I can't really complain about that, I knew I'd run into that when I bought a JDM vehicle.

So I'm guessing the $720 in the picture is complete...I need to follow up with that question and the other about new vs reconditioned

I'm checking out some other sources and I'll post back up when I hear more...

 

[Dieseler]

Im not sure if I would give up on the head just yet without having it tested.....the precups for sure need replacing but what appears to be cracks between the valves may never cause you a problem.
My experience is 2B and 3B heads all develop this type of cracking with the cracks between the valves , if they do eventually open up to expose combustion gases to the cooling system which is usually the result will not cause catastrophic damage if caught and can be detected by the bubbling effect it has in the rad when the cap is removed also can be tested with a gas detecter..
I would have the head magnifluxed and maybe machine the suspect cracks just enough to reveal the extent of the cracks from my computer those areas do not look as bad as I have seen and can be drilled and plugged it all depends what way you want to go with this repair.
The prices on the heads are not as bad as I thought they would be I would search Aus apparently there is a company there that has a stronger head it has a higher ( Nickel or Chromium ) content not sure which metal it was but it is claimed to be a stronger head and does not crack.

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

If you guys can find the company that makes the high nickel heads, if be up for a group buy. My 2B has a bad head gasket and the likelihood that the head is in not-so-good shape is high. It might be nice to have a high quality has on the shelf.

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Correspondance with cylinderheads.nz.co

Me:
"Thanks Wayne,

I have a few follow up questions:
I'd like to confirm that this is new and not reconditioned.
Is this officially a Toyota head or some after market? What is the Toyota part number on it?
How much to add Pre-combustion chambers? (These I will need)
Valve guides and seats? (optional)
Freeze plugs? (optional)
When shipping, is this crated or boxed in some way to protect it or just wrapped in bubble wrap?

Thanks for your prompt responses,"

Them:
"Hello Jim

Yes … this is a NEW BARE head.
No… this is an after market cylinder head. You wouldn't buy a genuine head for this price
Sorry.. do not know the genuine part number
Pre-coms, valve seats , freeze plugs and valve guides are all installed. There is no additional machining required
It will be boxed, lined with polystyrene.


Hope this helps


Wayne"

SO... We have a New after market head with all the goodies for about $352 USD ($841 if we include the trip across half the globe.)

I had thought I wanted a Gen-U-Wine Toyota head to put back on, but at this price I'm not so sure anymore. The combo of this truck's condition and my wallet basically guarantees that this isn't going to be some pristine show rig, so maybe aftermarket isn't so bad...
Does anyone out there have experience with heads from these guys?

I do have a few other inquiries out there and I'll post up as I hear back...

As far as the High-Nickel heads go, aside from this thread :
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/456274-high-nickel-3b-heads.html
which I think many of you are already familiar with, I haven't found much.

 

[lostmarbles]

NZ is a very small country and I suspect there are far too few kiwis active on ih8mud for you to find anyone replying to say they've dealt with this company Jim.

However we have strong consumer-protection laws here so I believe it would be hard for a company like this to remain in business if it were ripping people off (by taking their money without providing the goods or by selling goods that aren't "fit for the purpose").

I dare even to say that I think our consumer protection laws are likely to be stronger than any within the USA!

But having said that, entering a dispute as an OVERSEAS purchaser always places you at a severe handicap.. (But I'd certainly step in on your behalf and alert our authorities if you were to show me good evidence that you had been screwed.)

It's obviously your decision, but I see no reason why a good kiwi supplier shouldn't be able to offer you the best deal.

By the way, it might be interesting to get them to quote you a shipping price of their own (assuming you worked out your FEDEX price yourself).

 

[Greg_B]

Allhead in Oz used to be the one people went to iirc. http://www.allhead.com.au/

There was some discussion a number of years ago as well that the new Toyota heads bought as replacements were of a higher nickle alloy.

Good luck with the repairs.

hth's

gb

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

...

By the way, it might be interesting to get them to quote you a shipping price of their own (assuming you worked out your FEDEX price yourself).

That was the ship cost they provided and its far less than I was able to determine on my own.

So, I've found a few options, but none near as inexpensive. What I've seen is that most are about the same or more than this head WITH shipping for just the head which will then have to be shipped.

Wayne at cylinderheads.co.nz sent me some stock photos of the head and it certainly looks to be a match. So right now, I can't think of a reason to not order from this vendor.I've never met a kiwi I didn't like so what the hey, right?


interestingly, as I was looking the head over I saw this cast in.
If you can't read that its 11111-05030 (I don't know why I can't get my pics mid thread as opposed to all stacked at the end...)
I ran this PN through The Google and only got one hit from some site in Paraguay selling a Dyna head...
Also, this may be old news to those of you on the other side of the world, btu it looks liek the 2B stayed in production for some time, but there are some changes that appear to make different generation incompatible. This is noted sometimes as "old" or "new" as noted in one of Tom's posts, or occasionally as Red block or Blue block

And now a naive question: Did Toyota match engine/frame/serial numbers on their JDMs?
My truck is BJ44-001666, but this is the engine stamping...no big deal, just curious...


Also got to thinking about the rest of the engine...There is some of the corrosion pitting on the #1 Piston (nothing like in the head)... I don't really want to pull it but...
Any recommendations or methods to verify bearings etc. without wrestling the engine out?

 

[lostmarbles]

Hi there Jim.

I've been having modem/ISP problems lately which are driving me crazy. A techie is coming here today with a new modem and new router to install but I suspect the problem is really elsewhere in THEIR system.

I keep intermittently losing my broadband connection ever since they made network changes that have disabled my old modem's "disconnect button" (no doubt to make it easier for intruders to snoop into my computer files etc). Each time I have an outage their recorded messages tell me "we have no known outages" yet their call centre simultaneously advises "Sorry we can't answer your call. We're experiencing a period of high demand". Grrrrrrrrrrr.

Anyway ... I compiled a reply for your thread yesterday but couldn't post it then so I'll try and retrieve that and post it now.. Here we go

That was the ship cost they provided and its far less than I was able to determine on my own....

Ah... I had a feeling it'd be considerably cheaper when done from this end but wasn't aware it would still end up quite that high.

My experience is that FEDEX is unmatched for speed and reliabity but often considerably more expensive than other shippers. However if there are cheaper options that remain reliable, then I'd expect Kiwicylinderheads to know of them and be able to advise you accordingly.

..... cylinderheads.co.nz sent me some stock photos of the head and it certainly looks to be a match. So right now, I can't think of a reason to not order from this vendor.I've never met a kiwi I didn't like so what the hey, right?..

Of course we're really the same as any other country .... with our share of bad eggs... So one can never afford to drop one's guard.

If you've read their blurb, kiwicylinderheads supply the engine overhaul industry in this country and say they believe their heads to be "the best available". This sure sounds good!

And times are hard here so I think their prices have to be keen for them to stay in business. (With second-hand engines being so widely available here, if new parts are priced too high, people will simply revert to an engine swap instead of doing a repair.).

And while I've heard talk of "high-nickel", I never seen anything documented and have my suspicions that this is/was an imaginery "point of difference" designed to direct sales their way. I doubt there'd be a wide choice of 2B head manufacturers, metallurgy is improving all the time, and I can't see any manufacturer distributing products worldwide while using outdated/inferior metallurgy compared to their competitors.

.. interestingly, as I was looking the head over I saw this cast in.
If you can't read that its 11111-05030 (I don't know why I can't get my pics mid thread as opposed to all stacked at the end...)
I ran this PN through The Google and only got one hit from some site in Paraguay selling a Dyna head.....

Toyota part numbers still confuse me. The epc doesn't recognise this number. The correct preface (which is the wrong word .. but hey... I'm senile anyway) is 11101 for a head yet I still don't get any hits using 11101-05030 instead of 11111-05030.

..Also, this may be old news to those of you on the other side of the world, btu it looks liek the 2B stayed in production for some time, but there are some changes that appear to make different generation incompatible. This is noted sometimes as "old" or "new" as noted in one of Tom's posts, or occasionally as Red block or Blue block

So long as you're wary of the traps and do your best to ensure a match by asking questions and performing your own comparisons, that's all you can do. Someone owning a 4x4 business repairing customers' trucks would be in the same boat (or even worse off if they weren't accessing all the good information here on ih8mud).

..And now a naive question: Did Toyota match engine/frame/serial numbers on their JDMs?
My truck is BJ44-001666, but this is the engine stamping...no big deal, just curious...

No. To my knowledge the numbers in the engine serial number have never matched the numbers in the frame serial number (VIN) for any Land Cruisers.

..Also got to thinking about the rest of the engine...There is some of the corrosion pitting on the #1 Piston (nothing like in the head)... I don't really want to pull it but...
Any recommendations or methods to verify bearings etc. without wrestling the engine out?

I know it overheated .. but what did it sound like when it was running?

Can you see any damage on any of the liners when you rotate the crankshaft to expose as much of them as you can see from the top?

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

I know it overheated .. but what did it sound like when it was running?

Once it was running, it sounded ok. It liked the hand throttle out a click or two. Without that it shook like an old Triumph vertical twin.
The starts were a bit hard. Always felt like it would catch on a few cylinders and then buck and snort while the other woke up. Typically this required a fair bit of throttle and even some secondary glowing regardless of outside temperature. I always figured this was due to a loss of compression from a bad gasket or now, a cracked head. I never did a leak-down test to see where any pressure might be escaping.
BTW I do not have an EDIC on this at all so IDK if this would perhaps be rectified if the pump could over-inject.

Can you see any damage on any of the liners when you rotate the crankshaft to expose as much of them as you can see from the top?

I'll need to get back out to the garage and turn it over to look.

 

[Dieseler]

What year was yours I presume you have the pre 82 with manual system.
You may have a cold plug or two this is usually the cause of the rough start ups IIR you use the 20.5v plugs which Cruiserparts is the source for these plugs theirs are fairly cheap price wise....the first set I got from them worked good the second set are questionable since I still get one cold cylinder on start up.
you said you second glow how are you doing this have you converted to the Wilson switch system so that you can glow after a start up.
On my 41 I just let the glow go for about 20 seconds not sure how good that is for those plugs since they are 20.5 V and probably get over heated after a long glow duration.

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Cold plug could certainly be the case.

What is in there is mismatched so...
I don't have a Wilson switch, but I don't have an EDIC either. After glowing for about 20 seconds, I crank it over. After its caught, I just turn the key back to glow. Since there's no EDIC to kill the pump it'll keep running and it'll smooth out a bit faster with the secondary glowing.

 

[lostmarbles]

I think the rough starts and rough idle could probably all be attributed to the fact that No.1 cylinder is in so much worse condition than all the others.

The loss of metal from the severe corrosion there alone may create enough imbalance when you consider how high the compression ratio is on a diesel.

And I'd like to see the state the valve seats beneath those valves..

 

[Dieseler]

If the cylinder damage was the culprit you would think it would not smooth out after awhile...usually when a cold plug is the reason it smooths itself out when the cylinders heat up from the combustion.
If the damage is causing lower compression in that cylinder then it will be detectable with a compression test on a cold engine to see if all cylinders are equal.

To keep it on the cheap run a compression test to see where you are at , also when you pull the plugs to do the compression test field test your glow plugs off the battery and time how long it takes for them to glow orange be careful because they get dam hot.

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

I never did run a compression test, and now the head is off and sitting on my workbench so I probably won't be running one any too soon.

I think I will try to pop out to the garage this weekend to bench test the plugs. They are mismatched so I expect some variance in performance. I know a mismatch is not a favorable situation. This will mainly be to satisfy my own curiosity.

I was looking back at some of the pictures I snapped just after pulling the head, and now with the 20/20 vision of hindsight, I noticed:

The combustion chamber of #1 was wet all over
The combustion chamber of #2 had dampness like dew droplets
The chambers for 3 and 4 were bone dry

I'm wondering if, as it sat, it would slowly leak coolant into the chambers and this would retard combustion at initial start-up.
It did always cough up a nice big old white cloud at cold start. I never smelled coolant burning, but it may have just been overpowered by the smell of un/partially burnt diesel

I'm also figuring this is the culprit for the corrosion. When I got the truck there was only water in there. I'm back to thinking the corrosion might be the result of rust-run-rust cycle. Not really knowing the history of the vehicle before it came stateside I can only speculate, but I can't really figure what else might have caused it.

As an update, I have had some email conversations with Cruiserparts.net, and we've worked out an agreement on a new head, so that's the ultimate decision on where I'll be sourcing it. James is predicting 6-8 weeks. I know what my project will be over the holiday break.

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Head is due in Tuesday
Hoping I can find some time in and around all the holiday prep and madness to get it on there.

More to come...

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Ok, after the family all came down from the Frozen North to warm and in the Carolinas and have a bit of Holiday craziness, I've finally been able to put in some time on the Cruiser (though now its between bouts of flu).
The aftermarket head I got from cruiserparts.net looks pretty damn good. aside from the makers mark being something Chinese intead of the "TEQ", I couldn't really find anything different. Here it is with the valves moved in and waiting to be mounted.

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

I got it mounted up and all the valves adjusted last night.
I'm trying to find someone in the area that can blast the exhaust manifold to clean up the rust before remounting it.
The water pump gaskets I got in the kit are for the wrong vintage so there will be a little delay there.
I cleaned up and boiled the thermostat just to be sure and everything there checks out OK.
I had been suspect of the crankcase vent tube on this truck, so while I'm in here I decided to pop it off and see what's what.
It's just a hunch, but I don't think the good folks at Toyota shipped it like this from the factory....

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Nearly forgot to mention: When I pulled the rocker shaft off, I left the assembly whole with the intent of just bolting it back in when the time came. Just before popping it in, I decided I might as well give everything a nice coat of Molybdenum assembly lube before putting it back in. I am very glad I did.
Unfortunately, I didn't take any pictures of this, but one of the mounts for the rocker shaft has an oil hole drilled to line up with a passage in the head and to another in the shaft so that oil can be pumped through the shaft to the rocker arms. I noticed some light scoring on the shaft and on further inspection, saw the shaft had been installed backwards thereby eliminating this oil circuit. That means the only lubrication the rockers were getting was whatever little bit of oil could seep in from the sides as it sprayed about in the head.
I gave everything a good smear with the Bel-Ray, put it back together (correctly this time) and nothing seems to have excessive play, so I'm going to see how it goes...

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

With parts removed and good light on the situation, I can see more than I might like to see.
This is the oil cooler cover.
Notice the nice boogery weld across the top and the thick smearing of black RTV to seal it up.
I don't know what happened to this poor engine, but somebody jammed up the right hand side...
I'm now looking to pick up a side cover and an oil cooler cover.

 

[lostmarbles]

Damn!

Finding the rocker shaft back-to-front confirms the engine was thrown together with very little running before you got it?

Welded oil-cooler cover suggests to me that maybe the coolant inside froze up at some stage. (I think the weld is most likely to repair a crack caused by ice-expansion.)



PS. Those hoses to/from your vacuum pump look highly suspect to me. Remember that if they burst you can rapidly lose all your engine oil...