Searching for 2B Head Gasket

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Thanks Tom.
Yes they certainly are suspect. I'm getting some new ones fabbed up next week.

QUESTION: Below I've attached a photo of the right side with the oil cooler cover plate removed. Circled in red there is a hole. This hole does not correspond to one on the cover. In other words, when the cover is on, it acts as a cap instead of as the other half of the passage.
When I pulled the cover, this hole was packed full of Black RTV Silicone. i grabbed the trusty pick set to try and extricate said silicone plug, and unfortunately popped it back into the block.
So, the questions are; can anyone tell me what this passage is? Is is it part of some critical lubrication circuit that will cause damage if blocked with a stupid little silicone plug, or is it just some vestigial hole from the manufacture of the block? Can anyone recommend a method of extraction? Tomorrow I am going to experiment with some straws and a shop-vac, but I see frustration in my future...

Next, Just because I'm curious, what belongs in the two holes shown in the next picture? These are down low, on the right hand side toward the rear of the engine block.

Last; I was expecting to find an actual oil cooler behind the cover plate instead of just a chamber. Is the cooler just a 3B thing? If the cover with no cooler is characteristic of the B/2B, will a 3B cover fit, and can one introduce an oil cooler to the equation?

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

****!

Finding the rocker shaft back-to-front confirms the engine was thrown together with very little running before you got it?

Welded oil-cooler cover suggests to me that maybe the coolant inside froze up at some stage. (I think the weld is most likely to repair a crack caused by ice-expansion.)

I think that's likely. When I got it, I had what appeared to be muddy water in the cooling system. That was back up North in New England where that sort of thing could certainly lead to freezing.

 

[lostmarbles]

Last; I was expecting to find an actual oil cooler behind the cover plate instead of just a chamber. Is the cooler just a 3B thing? If the cover with no cooler is characteristic of the B/2B, will a 3B cover fit, and can one introduce an oil cooler to the equation?

Hi Jim

My older 1979 B engine has an oil cooler designed like those found on 2F petrol engines .... so not as sophisticated as the 3B version admittedly. But I wonder why your engine should be without one if an older engine like mine has one?

Anyway ...Your alloy casing (that's been welded) is apparently part number 15701-56020 (subs 15701-56021) and I see it's used on post Aug80 B and 2B engined 40-series Land Cruisers that are listed as being "W/O OIL COOLER".

Where a heat exchanger is included (to form a proper oil cooler) the casing part number changes.

This doesn't necessarily mean that a 3B casing won't bolt up to your block. But I'd expect at the very least that you'd end up with oil holes that you would need to plug.

Here's a pic of the 3B oil flow:


And here's a pic of the 3B cover arrangement:


I'd expect your cover not to have those oil ports I've arrowed in red. Is that correct?

And I'm finding that "B-series engines without oil coolers" aren't just a JDM thing.

If I'm reading the EPC correctly, BJ40 and BJ43 models produced for export from Aug 1980 till the end of production were similarly without oil coolers (even though most owners would think they have them when looking at their engines)!

(Well at least this information gives you a wider choice of donor engines/vehicles to get a new casing from.. )

.. Below I've attached a photo of the right side with the oil cooler cover plate removed. Circled in red there is a hole. This hole does not correspond to one on the cover. In other words, when the cover is on, it acts as a cap instead of as the other half of the passage.
When I pulled the cover, this hole was packed full of Black RTV Silicone. i grabbed the trusty pick set to try and extricate said silicone plug, and unfortunately popped it back into the block.
So, the questions are; can anyone tell me what this passage is? Is is it part of some critical lubrication circuit that will cause damage if blocked with a stupid little silicone plug, or is it just some vestigial hole from the manufacture of the block? Can anyone recommend a method of extraction? Tomorrow I am going to experiment with some straws and a shop-vac, but I see frustration in my future...

As you can see from my pics, it doesn't look like that hole is used even when you have the heat exchanger there. So I have no idea what it's for.

As for getting out your "silicone slug". Your shop-vac idea sounds good to me. (My wife's Miele vacuum cleaner has tremendous suction so if I was in your shoes, and not having a shop-vac, I'd probably opt for that LOL. But it wasn't that long ago that I wrecked her last one by doing similar things that it wasn't designed for.)

...Next, Just because I'm curious, what belongs in the two holes shown in the next picture? These are down low, on the right hand side toward the rear of the engine block.

Pass on this one too.

 

[lostmarbles]

Ooops. Sorry Jim. I often seem to go off down a single track with my thinking.

I've been concentrating on getting your engine back to how it was ex-factory .... in other words ...... "sans oil cooler".

I think perhaps if you did get a combined "casing and heat exchanger and oil filter mount" off a 3B from a similar production period it may indeed fit perfectly and give you a working oil cooler for the first time.

Perhaps the way to find out is to take a decent photograph of your 2B oil cooler casing (giving an internal view) and overlay as many dimensions on it as possible. Then, in a new thread, ask anyone with a similar-year 3B casing to either do the same thing or just compare their measurements with yours.

If the dimensions and everything else seem OK, I'd get the 3B oil filter mount with everything associated with that too (as well as the hidden internal heat exchanger) just to be sure you've got a working bypass setup (that'll send the oil through the heat exchanger when it needs cooling and bypasses the heat exchanger when it doesn't).



PS... Edit: I've had an idea about those two bolt holes lower down too. I think they may be for a reinforcing bracket that's perhaps used when this engine is mated to an alloy bellhousing.

Here's that stiffening bracket Jim:


Now.....About t h a t d e a d - e n d o i l g a l l e r y hole i n y o u r b l o c k

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

SUCCESS!!!

The Silicone plug is out!
A Bic pen, a shop-vac, some duct tape and 5 minutes, and it was out.

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Oil Cooler

Once again Tom, Thank you.

After getting the plug out, I poked around in the dead-end gallery a bit with the pick, and it definitely opens up to both the left and right. Either way, its clear now....

I have contacted someone here on Mud whose parting out a 3B. I had asked for the side cover plate discussed earlier and the oil cooler cover plate, I guess now I'll see about picking up the whole shooting match and adding an oil cooler. I wonder what was the rationale for not just making it standard. For what the cooler would cost to manufacture vs having to have multiple part numbers for the cover plate, I can't see why Toyota would add the complexity to their assembly operation. Anyway, I can't think of a downside to having an oil cooler.

Looking at my side cover, I think its really the same part with a few holes left un-machined. I haven't bothered to clean up the cover, because I'll not be reusing it, but I pointed to six places just waiting for a drill to open then up.

 

[Dieseler]

if the rains stop I have a 82 3B I juat pulled from a BJ60 if I can get the cover off I could snap some pics and get some numbers for you.
I know you want to sort this out quickly so I will see what I can do in between the rains I just don't want to get the motor wet it is tarped sitting in my driveway.

 

[lostmarbles]

The Silicone plug is out!
A Bic pen, a shop-vac, some duct tape and 5 minutes, and it was out.

Well done!

If that hole opens out both ways then that plug could have indeed been causing your engine to have oil flow problems (on top of those caused by having the rocker shaft installed backwards).

It's always amazed me how rough some people are when using that stuff (ie. silicine sealant designed primarily for building use) for gaskets!

Our old engines were assembled with proper gaskets almost everywhere so that's what I use when reassembling anything on my cruiser. But if I see an advantage to using a liquid sealer, then I always use a purpose-designed one that doesn't set outside of the joint. (And I can only recall using that stuff on the 's car right now.)

...I have contacted someone here on Mud whose parting out a 3B. I had asked for the side cover plate discussed earlier and the oil cooler cover plate, I guess now I'll see about picking up the whole shooting match and adding an oil cooler. I wonder what was the rationale for not just making it standard. For what the cooler would cost to manufacture vs having to have multiple part numbers for the cover plate, I can't see why Toyota would add the complexity to their assembly operation. Anyway, I can't think of a downside to having an oil cooler.

Looking at my side cover, I think its really the same part with a few holes left un-machined. I haven't bothered to clean up the cover, because I'll not be reusing it, but I pointed to six places just waiting for a drill to open then up.

I can't understand it either.

I think we're breaking new ground here. There must be many owners who think they have an oil cooler when they actually don't and it does seem silly to me as to why Toyota would go down this route (of building engines with empty oil cooler chambers).

if the rains stop I have a 82 3B I juat pulled from a BJ60 if I can get the cover off I could snap some pics and get some numbers for you.
I know you want to sort this out quickly so I will see what I can do in between the rains I just don't want to get the motor wet it is tarped sitting in my driveway.

Cool beans....

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Dieseler,
Thanks for the offer. I just went ahead with getting a cover with a cooler. After looking at mine, it has all the passages cast in, just not machined, so I'm reasonably confident it should fit.
I'll post with results when it comes in.

Sent from my iPhone using IH8MUD

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Oil Cooler Cover Plate

After a time spent hanging out at the US-CAD border, and then getting hung up last week while North Carolina was closed due to ice, my new-to-me oil cooler, oil cooler cover plate and side cover plate have arrived. I've cleaned them up and the new paint is curing, but in the meantime, to conclude a previous discussion, I thought I'd post up pics of the new and the old oil cooler cover plate side-by-side

Near as I can tell, they really are the same base part with one drilled to accept the cooler.

In other news, I'm waiting on a local diesel supply company to rebuild the injectors. Two pressure tested below spec and had a crappy spray pattern. The other two were to the low end so I figured I might as well start fresh and get all 4 done. They are also making up some new oil lines for the vacuum pump.
While I'm waiting on those items, I've decided to rebuild the master cylinder. It looks like it was leaking back toward the booster. I'll need to clean up the firewall and get some kind of paint on it to give it some interim protection since the Dot 3 has stripped much of it bare.

I do have a question regarding the booster. My searches indicate that rebuild kits are not readily available anymore. I fear some fluid may have been sucked in there...wondering about cracking into it..
concerned

I don't (or didn't) have any indications of a problem with it so a large part of me feels I should leave well enough alone, but there's a little voice naggign at me...

opinions?

advice?

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Item of note:

Along with not having the Oil Cooler, I do not have an oil cooler bypass valve either. This probably should have been obvious and expected once I saw there was no cooler, but it didn't register until I was cleaning up the oil filter bracket. The passage is machined in, but there is no valve present. Anyway, I've revived an old thread here:

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tec...-pressure-indicator-function.html#post9061180

to see what opinions are out there.

Aside from that, I think I've migrated this thread a bit far from its original intended purpose, so with this post I would Like to thank you all for the help you've provided and conclude with a picture of the new head along with the refurbished oil cooler cover and side cover plates.
Note the nice vent tube with a mounting bracket and the studs coming through the oil-cooler cover plate signifying the presence of an oil cooler.

I just got a call from the local diesel supply house that my oil lines and injectors are done. So I may need to take an early lunch and head on over.

I'll see you all around here on Mud
Onward and Upward
Thanks Again
-Jim

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

OK, I know I said that last thread was the last, but I am so bummed right now.

After a fair bit of mission creep, and working on issues having nothing to do with the original issue, I finally got the old girl ready to fire yesterday.
Cranked easily, caught easily, ran WAY smoother, lots less smoke filling the neighborhood...
The two rugrats in my avitar photo leapt in and we took a cruise around the neighborhood.
We went on a loop of about 5km, backed it into the driveway where the missus was waiting.

As we hopped out, she says, "What's that dripping underneath?"
There's a steady green stream running onto my driveway. After getting a bucket to catch the mess and avoid poisoning any neighborhood dogs, I pop the hood to see what I can see.
The whole top of the H20 pump is wet. I couldn't tell for certain if its the water pump gasket or the d*mn head gaskett.
I had to walk away...

Tonight I'll clean it up, fire it up, and see what I can see.
To be continued (unfortunately)...

 

[lostmarbles]

Damn.. I feel your pain....

Fingers crossed that's it's an easy fix...

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

5kms should have just gotten it to temp. Good luck!

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

I wipped everything down the best I could. Fired it up (still sooo mcuh smoother and almost nothing for smoke) and topped up the coolant. I grabbed a flashlight. Then for the next 5-10 minutes, just stared at it. I watched where the head meets the block. I watched the top of the pump....nothing.

Then, my boy Seamus yells, "It's leaking Dad!" and sure enough, it's dripping in the driveway. I can't see exactly where from, but all the hoses are good. Now I have a theory.

Once again I load the boys up, and we run our loop around the neighborhood. I back it in, pop the bucket underneath, and open the hood. Sure enough, there's coolant all over the top of the pump.

Since everything was such a mess, when I had everything apart I wanted to get a good look at the pump. I pulled the backing plate before sourcing a gasket for it. When I went ot source one, I couldn't find one (not the Water pump gasket for where it bolts up to the engine, but the one between the cast body and the metal plate that make up the pump). I bought some gasket paper from the parts store and got to cutting. Apparently my gasket fabrication skills leave a bit to be desired, I used the wrong material, I should have used some sealant, or perhaps some combo of the three.

In the end, I don't think there's ever been anyone so happy to have a leaky water pump.

I'll cut a new one, and smear some permatex on there. Unless one of you has a known better option...

 

[Dieseler]

16271-56020 water pump gasket Toyota same as 3B this is the gasket for the plate behind the pump

 

[RedHeadedStepChild]

Thanks Dieseler. Now I'll have a new one in hand in 3-5 days.
That was way easier than the way I did it...not sure why I didn't just ask the question to begin with.

 

[BreckenridgeCruiser]

Congrats! I'm glad it was something easy.

 

[lostmarbles]

Congrats! I'm glad it was something easy.

x 2

 

[emoto]

Always happy to learn form this site. Even years later.