Sean's 80 build discussion.

[Sean K.]

Sorry to bring up the dead again, but just curious.....

What do you think about me building an 80 now Spike (after wheeling with me and knowing what I'm gonna do to an 80)?

This thread ended with everyone saying that the 80 was probably not going to be as good as a crawler as building a Runner.....

Just curious if that's still the consensus.

Sean

 

[-Spike-]

I dunno- I've run back through this thread and didn't see anyone suggest you build a 4Runner over the 80. Might have been another thread, or wishful thinking .

Like I said in the PM, if you're gonna swap axles on either build, the only points of comparison are the engine, tranny, t-case, and body size. I think the 80 has an edge in the first 3, and whether the extra room inside is a good thing or if the extra size on the outside is a bad thing is up to you. From what you said at the end of the trail Saturday, the '99 4Runner may not be all that much lighter or smaller anyway. That part I don't know.

As far as 'what you're gonna do with an 80', you seem to want it to keep up with your buggy. That ain't gonna happen, with any SUV. Going over 6 foot high boulders with 4 feet between them on your driver's side, and 7 foot high ramp rock on your passenger's- let's just say watching that was a whole new experience for me. You try that in any SUV and your recovery vehicle is gonna be a Chinook. Maybe, maybe you might get an 80 on huge tires and wide axles through the right-side line on that obstacle. I could see that, possibly. Never on the line you took.

-Spike (Never say 'never', right?)

 

[Sean K.]

So I guess if you evaluate what you are left with when doing a 80 with new axles and suspension, you have a heavy motor that is really not that powerfull, a good tranny and transfercase, limited crawler gear setups and a big body. A low frame and a heavy overall setup. So I just don't see what you gain.

In that case a 4Runner with a 3.4 might be a better setup, easier to make into a rock crawler / family mobile. (Emphasis added)

This is where I got the thing about building the Runner over the 80. It's not wishful thinking....I just figured this guy would probably know.

Sean

 

[Sean K.]

As far as 'what you're gonna do with an 80', you seem to want it to keep up with your buggy. That ain't gonna happen, with any SUV. Going over 6 foot high boulders with 4 feet between them on your driver's side, and 7 foot high ramp rock on your passenger's- let's just say watching that was a whole new experience for me. You try that in any SUV and your recovery vehicle is gonna be a Chinook. Maybe, maybe you might get an 80 on huge tires and wide axles through the right-side line on that obstacle. I could see that, possibly. Never on the line you took.

-Spike (Never say 'never', right?)

See though....if you look at that Martinez thread....you'll see my old Toyota truck doing that same obstacle. Hell, that was when it was much more modded than the first time I ran it in my 91 Toyota with full doors, a bed and 35s. It CAN be done....it's not even what I'd call extreme (granted it is washed out more at the base, but I guarantee my old truck could've done it if I was over to the right about 1-2 ft).

I broke my first birfeild right after climbing that obstacle (literally in the gravel just above it).

Granted, I was WAAAAY off line b/c normally you don't climb to the top of the 6' rock...you come just inside the top....but that was b/c of my s*** tires and my changing the line midway through the obstacle on a whim (shoulda thought that out better ). I don't expect anything but another buggy/truggy to drive off the top of that rock and make it and I'm not looking for something to be able to follow my buggy, but on that kind of obstacle, I want something that can do it without too much problem.

I guess I need to run the numbers on what it'll cost to build both. The crawler tcase for the 80 is almost twice what it is for a all gear driven one for the 4Runner and that one replaces the weak chain drive in the Runner. I've got some feelers out too for the weight on a 3rd Gen. Runner and a PM in to Tools to find out what his 80 weighs.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. Please don't think I'm trying to talk myself out of the 80....actually, it's the other way around. I'm trying to talk myself into one b/c my wife and I really like the 80 better. It's going to cost at least $8K to buy....which is $8K I could spend on the Runner and would take care of both f/r 60's with lockers, my steering and at least part of my suspension.


Sean

 

[Sean K.]

Weight:

4Runner: 3895 lbs with auto...so probably a little lighter with our manual.

Sean

 

[clarkrw3]

I think most built 80's are over 6k, but it would be really cool to have a rig like action jacksons here in the valley!!

 

[Symon623]

Sean,
You might also want to consider what you want to carry in it? The 80 is quite a bit bigger than the Runner, hence the extra weight. If you can get all you want into teh runner it still might not be suitable;

The runner will need a SAS, possible rear lower link relocation (If you want to run 37's without trimming) pus the afore mentioned gearing adaptations, you will also need to lift it higher to get the 37's under it.

The 80 will need a diet! This will help the main drwback of the 80. Lack of power. AA makes or used to make a sweet low-range case for cruisers? Yet IMHO, xtremely low gears are only really needed for gearboxes and/or rockcrawlin. JMO. I wheeled my junk with an auto and a stock geared Dana 300 with 4.10's on 37's for 2 years then switched to 5.38's mostly for a more usable hi-range. Helped in lo-range too of course but never been a fan of teh gap between a 1:1 hi to a 4:1 low. Would love a splitter box, don't think there's room for that much drivetrain in an 80 cos of the gas tank locale?

BTW, my 60's with the 5.38's and Dana 300 are goin in the new rig in my avy.

 

[ShottsUZJ100]

My 2 cents....though hardly an expert:

After trial running the LX with the 6" lift.....I ruled out 37's ASAP. The 35's still rub some and stuff all the way in the rear touching the mud flap, etc. Slee said I'd need to bump-stop 37's more and there's no way I'll do it. I want a stable rig and not a wheel-lifter.

I'd guess with cutting 37's would work (articulate) as well as 35's. I'll not give up on the articulation.

Oh....and if you get an 80 and run 37's or up, make sure you buy an unlocked one and add ARB's. Slee will not even build an 80 with factory lockers and very large tires any longer. He's seen too many axle failures and the factory locker doesn't allow for axle removal without cutting and a lot of labor. He says the way the ARB connects to the axle prevents this.

 

[-Spike-]

This is where I got the thing about building the Runner over the 80. It's not wishful thinking....I just figured this guy would probably know.

Sean

I got it. Not exactly 'everyone' or a 'concensus', but I get it.

My last bit of advise- build what you want to drive. If you prefer the 80, build it. You would sell the 4Runner I assume, so the money should be somewhat even although I haven't looked to see what a Runner books at.

-Spike

 

[Sean K.]

Actually, we weren't planning on selling the Runner at all....it just isn't worth much to anyone but me (who's owned it since new, knows it's really reliable and gets great mileage). I think KBB puts it around $5-6K at most. Might as well keep it for that amount.


I prefer the 80....but I don't think I can afford it (you'll see what I mean when you read the PM).
Sean

 

[Sean K.]

I think most built 80's are over 6k, but it would be really cool to have a rig like action jacksons here in the valley!!

Check out "ProjectFj80"....who posted a few pages back. Sounds like his 80 is going to be every bit as nice as action jackson's.

Sean

 

[Sean K.]

Sy and John.....

I'm planning f/r 60s b/c honestly, I don't think the 80 axles will handle what I'm planning on doing with the rig. B/c of that, I won't be buying a "bolt on" lift....and will likely be cutting lots of sheetmetal, running heavy air shocks or coilovers, and pushing the axles for and aft for clearance as well as approach/departure. I figure I may have to tub the floorboards/kickplates in front to clear the 37s, but I did it on my other Toy and kept it to 4" of lift with 38s. With an 80 steering box having forward swing....it puts me ahead of the game in that regard.

Roomwise, I think the 4Runner would be plenty of space. Besides, there's only 6" more wheelbase out of an 80 vs. a 3rd gen. Runner.

Sy, I think the box you are thinking of for cruisers is only for FJ40s and 60s. The 80s have a crawl box from Marks4wd, but they're over $3K and the gas tank has to be modded to work (I believe). BTW, the new rig sounds like it's gonna be awesome with that setup.


Sean

 

[Symon623]

Thanks Sean......I woud prefer the runner to an 80 myself. But thats me, I like little, light rigs. I'm usin the links ac GC Coils out of the Willys too. Will be addin swaybars for streetability. Wanna try and bring it in under 4K pounds with trail gear, but not campin gear. Want to be self sufficient for 3 days.

I didn't realize how much you plan on modifying the runner. Sounds as if your gonna have a buggy with a cab? Are you gonna keep the buggy and the Runner? Or will the buggy eventually go away?

 

[Sean K.]

No....I'm DEFINITELY keeping the buggy. I absolutely LOVE it, but I also realize it's not practical if we have kids.

Also, I'd like something Stacey can drive....after all, this is a driver's sport.

I don't really want a "buggy with a cab"....but I would like something like my old Toyota was before it rolled; decent (or even "nice") sheetmetal, very capable but sealed and really reliable for more moderate trails. About the hardest thing I'd probably do in the Runner would be AT THE VERY MOST like H2H or Annihilator.

4k for what you've got will be pretty obtainable. I was at 4K with my old Toyota with full width D44s, 38s, dual cases and the flatbed and armor. The 60's are where you might go over (well, that and the 300 is fairly heavy). But, the 85 was several hundred pounds lighter than my 91 anyway so it may offset the axle weight.

Sean

 

[Symon623]

Sounds like the runner will be a sweet rig like the buggy...... You want teh runner to be streetable so you can drive to trail and back too? or be able to do the Sadona AZ/Silverton CO type trails and not worry about the authorities?

 

[Sean K.]

Sounds like the runner will be a sweet rig like the buggy...... You want teh runner to be streetable so you can drive to trail and back too? or be able to do the Sadona AZ/Silverton CO type trails and not worry about the authorities?

Both actually.

I was supposed to go to MVD today to get the buggy registered as an "RV", but I think I'm going to work on the steering issue instead.

Sean

 

[Symon623]

Both actually.

I was supposed to go to MVD today to get the buggy registered as an "RV", but I think I'm going to work on the steering issue instead.

Sean

That's what I want from my new......dual purpose. All the capablilty and still streetable, a buggy just isn't in the budget for me. I understand your position, all that work and the rig is frickin beautiful.....you just can't let it go.

BTW....Love the color of the buggy. What do they call it? hard to apply? Jury's still out on what color I'm goin with on the new rig.

 

[Sean K.]

Mine's a 2 stage powdercoat....it's beautiful, but not practical at all if you plan to beat on your junk.

The powdercoat is called Lollipop Red over Sparkle Silver. The chassis was powdercoated by AZ Powdercoat for $700.

The paint on the hood/grill/panels is a Candy Red Metallic. I had it done by Miguel's Custom Psychels. He charged $600 to do it.

HTH,
Sean

 

[Symon623]

Wow.....It looks awesome though.

Maybe I'll stick with white?