SAS using 85 4Runner parts???

[thespruce]

Hey all,

I have a 1986 4Runner, in great condtion - good frame and body. And, just a couple of days ago, I scored an 85 for dirt cheap - blown V6 in it. The body is not great, although saveable if I really want to - the frame, I'm unsure of. I'm going to explore my options, but if I do decide to swap the 85 axle onto the 86, along with the various other bracketry, can anyone point out a thread where this was done? I know it would be easier to buy a kit, but, I'm low on money, and have some time, so if I can hack off stuff from the 85, and fabricate a few parts and avoid a kit, that would be awesome. Anyone out there done this? Have any advice? Threads anyone? I've searched, and there's a wealth of SAS info, but I haven't found this particular scenario yet...

Spruce

 

[Hilux]

1st off... No ya didn't... Unless it's a Chevy V6?

And, just a couple of days ago, I scored an 85 for dirt cheap - blown V6 in it.

2nd off... Although the body doesn't sound so appealing, it sounds like you'd be way better off either making the 85 run. Or since I think you got your years mixed up anyway, making the SA truck drivable...


Take another look at what ya got and let us know.

B/c the only way there's a V6 in an 85 is if somebody put it there...

And IF it's a Chebby, for the life of me I can't see how that'd be hard to get back to running...

 

[Hilux]

And 3rd...






















WELCOME! < Official newb welcome sign...

 

[KLF]

The only part of the '85 that you can use for a SAS is the axle, possibly the U-bolts and plates. None of the steering parts will work on the IFS steering box, you will need to get new steering arms, draglink, and tie rod. Well, *maybe* you could recycle the old tie rod, but I wouldn't, as the tube part will likely be very rusty inside and very weak.

Don't even think of swapping the older push-pull steering box onto the '86, this steering system is very poor.

The front springs will be too flat, but you may be able to use the old rears up front. You might be able to salvage the shackles & pins, the bushings will be all worn out.

The factory SA front hangers are very flimsy, I wouldn't bother trying to cut them off of the old frame.

 

[pappy]

I hate to be discouraging, but I agree with the boys above. The only thing worth harvesting off the 85 is the axle. I would get a cross-over steering kit from Marlin. You might be able to fab up the spring and shackle hangers. Like KLF said, those springs on the SA truck will be very flat by now if they are the originals.

A little trivia for you. Solid axle trucks were made 1979 -1985. SA 4Runners were only 1984 and 1985. In 1984 the engine was a carburated, 4 cyl, 22R. In 1985 the engine on the 4Runners was an EFI, 4 cyl, 22RE. Mini-trucks were either carb or efi until I think 1987. In 1988 the 3.slow V6 was offered in mini-trucks and 4Runners. I believe all 4cyl 1988 and up were efi (at least in the USA), but don't quote me on that.

So, if you have a vee-six in the 1985, it was installed by a previous owner. The Chebby 4.3L vee-6 was a popular swap and it could be what's in there.

 

[thespruce]

Hey all - thanks for the replies.

First off - don't know why I said V6 - probably something to do with sanding a beech mantle I've been working on for 12 hours straight - def just a regular 22r. And, it's definitely an 85 - front axle has the extra gussets and all. In any case, it's dead at the moment - PO says head gasket, which I'd believe.

Gotchya on the SAS - I was hoping I could salvage more of the parts, but guess I won't. The shackles are definitely a no-go - they look like they were swiped off a dumptruck. They're about double the length of stock, and are crazy thick, and too wide - he just bolted them up and tightened till they bent in. Ugly - I'm not sure if the springs are stock or not (the vehicle is still at his place, so I haven't been able to go check).

On the weekend or early next week I should be able to get it towed over, and start hammering around to assess whether it's worth getting the 85 running again, or SASing my 86. Probably I'll be SASing my 86, cause I have a 2ltII dropped in (little 2.4 mechanical diesel, which is awesome) - I'll definitely be using that engine in whatever configuration I end up with. The biggest advantage to getting the 85 going again, and then doing an engine swap, is that I can do so much of the work before hacking into my current rig, which is my DD. The SAS itself may not take that long (although since this is my first, I'm sure it'll take me about 4 times longer than it should), but while I've got everything apart, I may also hack out the trans tunnel and raise the drivetrain - I absolutely hate the look of everythign sticking down there.

Also, the 85 came with two trannies, two transfer cases (gear drive), 2 of a helluva lot of 22r parts, interior pieces etc. And BFGs - 33 I think, maybe 35 - 12.5 - didn't look that close cause I'm a moron and was busy crawling around looking at frame rust. The two transfer cases are a sweet bonus - I can take my time putting together a dual setup, without disabling my vehicle.

BTW how are the trail gear SAS kits/parts? Definitely cheaper...

Also, I should be able to reuse the driveshafts, correct? Although they may need to be trimmed/extended depending on where I install everything, and if I do the dual setup. Or will I need a longer slip...

Spruce

 

[me_tu05]

I think all these guys are smoking crack. If the 85 has a good solid frame, swap bodies and engine on to the 85. The frame is different between 85 and 86. The 85 has a larger hump where the front axle sits, which if you end up building it even more down the road, it will save you much frustration in fitting everything. Also, you won't need a spring hanger and all that other crap, just reinforce the ones on there, put the rears from the 86 up front and put the shackle in the frame like on a SAS. Thats just my $.02

 

[fjfodee]

I may also hack out the trans tunnel and raise the drivetrain - I absolutely hate the look of everythign sticking down there.

Get a Budbuilt or some other aftermarket skid plate. Would be a lot less work and I think you would be pleased with the look. Plus if you go with dual cases you'll need one anyway. Either way you go (85 or 86) you're going to spend more $ than you realize.

 

[KLF]

I think all these guys are smoking crack.

He asked about using parts from the '85 to do a SAS on the '86. Nothing about body swaps.

True, the front of the frame on the '85 is humped up a little more. BUT, you will need to convert the steering system to some sort of crossover style if you stick with this frame. The stock push-pull steering setup is awful. I would rather install new front hangers that try to beef up the flimsy factory ones, way less fab work required and the results will be better.

The shackle tubes are easy to install.

I have a 1" body lift, then I had Bud make me a crossmember with 1" of lift, and I made some plates to raise my engine an inch. Tons of clearance now. The biggest problem with stuff hanging down on the 4Runner is the damn gas tank.

 

[Dedtruk]

SAS the '86. It's got the wider rear axle already in it, and the frames on the IFS trucks are better than the SA trucks. I just picked up an '85 front axle for a buddy who builds race cars so he can do a SAS on his '89 4R. We'll be fabbing the parts rather than buying a kit. Got a fresh bottle of 02 too ... ; ) Let me know and we can PM or whatever to share tech.

 

[KLF]

I actually made my own hanger from scratch as well. It was a pretty fun project. Damn, that was waaay back in 2003.

 

[thespruce]

Thanks for the responses guys.

I had considered doing a body and engine swap onto the 85 frame - I could strip down to the frame, clean everything up, then swap body and engine over,,, but, I think this is getting to the point of being more work than SASing the 86, and leaves me with the weaker frame and poor steering (the higher hump is nice, but I can survive without it).

So, right now I'm leaning towards SASing the 86 - would just steal the axle and transfer cases from the 85, and part out everything else.

KLF - I would definitely be interested in fabbing the parts myself - I just haven't done this sort of fab work before, so I'm not super confident on getting everything shaped just right and positioned correctly. But, I can cut just fine with a torch, grinder or whatever, and welding is no problem - been building climbing walls and re-enforcing cell phone towers for several years now, as well as random shop work. I only have a 110 welder, but it does pretty good with flux core in it - the thicker stuff I could probably get access to a bigger welder for. Maybe I can fab stuff and get talked through install on here and save a few bucks - would take longer, but I can live with that, and it would be a sweet experience.

What thickness did you make your spring hanger from? 3/16" or 1/4"? I'm guessing 1/4", but can't tell from the photo.

If fabbing parts myself, what parts does it make sense to fab, and which parts to order? I think I would order the whole steering kit, and obviously springs, and wheel spacers. Could fab the spring hanger, shackles (although maybe not even worth it). Shock hoops are an issue - don't have a bender. Could order those I guess, or try to find somebody around here who can bend. Bump stops I can fab, as well as axle gussets, etc. What else?

Man, high steer kits aren't cheap... This project will for sure add up, but oh well...

Spruce

 

[KLF]

I'm heading out to job #2 right now, so I don't have a lot of time. I have TONS of pictures from when I did mine, I'll put them on a browsable folder on my web server so you can take a look.

Something to think about: when I did my SAS, I didn't have a welder at home, I was using the one at work, but there was no way I could do all the work in one session, I couldn't leave my truck in the shop that long. So I did it in reverse. I fabbed the front hanger, welded it on, then drilled and welded in the rear shackle tubes, got all the welding stuff done over a few weeks. I did a TON of measuring on an old solid axle frame before I scrapped it out (I actually still have the entire front crossmember for some stupid reason), so I was really careful about where stuff ended up. Once I got all the welding done, I drove it home with a borrowed set of torches, and took the plunge in my driveway: cut all the IFS crap off and bolted the new stuff on. Fortunately, all my planning worked, because after a couple of days I backed it out of the driveway for it's maiden voyage. I was stoked, to say the least.

I'll post more stuff and pics later, probably tonight. Wish you were closer (where are you anyway?), would love to come give you a hand, or you could come over and use my new welder that I just picked up yesterday.

 

[thespruce]

KLF - I'm in Pittsburgh, PA at the moment - howabout yourself? If I can find local help it would be sweet, but otherwise I think I'll take my time, ask a lot of questions, and muddle my way through it. Any access you have to pics would be sweet, especially since I'm doing the exact same thing you did - your method of welding everything on, and cutting at the last second is an awesome idea - will almost definitely do that.

dedtruk - will definitely have to keep in touch to share tec.

As for the drivetrain lift - I will definitely have some sort of crossmember/bashbuilt like the budbuilt - I may try to fab one up myself, we'll see. I'll use it to lift as much as I can - maybe with the one inch body lift as well - definitely will be raising the gas tank as much as I can also. But that crossmember just makes me sick looking at it, and I've certainly hit it on stuff, just with the little playing I've done so far - and it would really suck to smack the drop on the transfer case...

I got garage space today, so I will get the 85 towed over early in the week, and inspect and decide which route to go from there...

Spruce

 

[bkg]

If you're not a fabber and not confident, don't build the crossmember from scratch. They're too cheap to buy these days. Have someone weld on the crossmember and install the shackle hangers while IFS is still on the truck... You can drive it around that way until you're ready to start cutting things....

 

[thespruce]

Hey - not a fabber persay, but I'm confident in being able to make a crossmember. I've been welding for several years now - got unlimted thickness certs in several different rods, as well as flux core. Have MIGed a decent amount as well. No TIG unfortunately, mostly been structural stuff. But, on the job, you always end up fabbing things - boom extensions, jigs, complicated truss or anchor systems which have to be built on-site, etc. Might save time and order one, but I've got enough scrap laying around that I could build one right now and not spend a penny. And I can definitely weld it on with no problem.

Spruce

 

[Hilux]

The 85 has a larger hump where the front axle sits, which if you end up building it even more down the road, it will save you much frustration in fitting everything. Also, you won't need a spring hanger and all that other crap, just reinforce the ones on there, put the rears from the 86 up front and put the shackle in the frame like on a SAS. Thats just my $.02

Agree... Now see, that's why I like those frames. It already has high horns so you can get compression w/o having to have an absurdly lifted truck with a high static lift, b/c the frame doesn't give the axle room to compress...


But I guess I'm the odd man out. I like low lifts that flex a lot...


IMO a high steer and IFS box are cheap and easy enough...

Then spend the rest of your time and aggravation on traction and go wheel...

 

[thespruce]

Hilux - I'll definitely keep that option in mind. It has more advantages then just the high horns on the frame - it means I can do a lot of the work without disabling my current rig. But, it does depend on how bad the frame is... Which I'll find out some time this week hopefully.

And, I'd have to swap engines, and possibly bodies - a lot of work. Unless I decided to rebuild the 22r - but I really like my diesel. I guess I could do the body work, but again, that's a lot of work.

Gotta inspect that frame...

Spruce

 

[bkg]

Agree... Now see, that's why I like those frames. It already has high horns so you can get compression w/o having to have an absurdly lifted truck with a high static lift, b/c the frame doesn't give the axle room to compress...

Only partially agree here. You can do an SAS w/ as little as 2.5" of lift on an IFS frame. It just requires some very careful planning for the steering location, and possibly a small notch in the frame.

Given the choice, I'd still start w/ an SA or 2wd frame.

 

[thespruce]

Got the truck...

Alright, I got the truck towed over... I'll put in a link which I think will let ya'll view a bunch of photos I took, in completely random order. I would appreciate your opinion on several things:

1985 4Runner - Imgur

1) strip down to 85 frame, grind everything, plate where needed, and rebuild, or go with the clean 86 frame SAS

2) which transmissions are on the vehicle (or in the bed, as the case may be)? Can you tell from the photos, or do you know where I need to look to find out?

3) The transfer cases are gear drive, top shift, units, correct?

4) The master cylinder which is on the ground - I'm thinking this is a v6 MC, because it's larger than the one in there, is this correct?

5) The engine is a 22re, correct? I know almost nothing about these gasser engines - I currently have a 2lt-II, which is a little turbo diesel - I'm learning this engine pretty well, but don't know the 22r.

6) This engine supposedly has a blown head gasket, and high miles,,, not sure how many offhand. Is it worth rebuilding? I could use my 2lt-II, and probably will, but diesel is more expensive then gas where I'm at (howabout the rest of the country?), so I'm not sure...

7) Any other thoughts/things you notice etc.???

Hmm, that's about it for now... Your help is much appreciated!

Spruce