Saginaw Power Steering conversion Using stock Smog on a FJ60 (1 Viewer)

[rickyrockrat]

Since we got way off topic on a power steering box rebuild, discussing my Saginaw conversion, I thought I would post some numbers here related to the conversion.

Hose (Got from RockAuto):
power steering hose from a 1985-1986 Chevy C10 Pickup 4.3L engine, with the following part numbers:
EDELMANN Part # 71270
GATES Part # 356240
ACDELCO Part # 36356240
This hose is a 16mmx1.5 male O-ring hose, both ends.

Auto zone numbers are 71270 for the hose and 7064 for the pump. You need to get a cap for the pump, too.
Use ATSCO 7064 pump which has a M16 x 1.5 pressure port.
Uses Reservoir cap DORMAN Part # 82581

The pulley is Pulley $15)
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=powerTrans&item=1-BKH60,
but I think a better one is
https://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?catname=powerTrans&item=1-BKH57, since it will make the pump spin a little faster.

Pulley Hub for ATSCO pump: ($5)
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?item=1-2913-75

I can supply the patterns for building the bracket, and I might even be convinced to build a 16Mx1.5 Female inverted flare to 16Mx1.5 Female O-ring adapter out of 6061-T6 AL. Not sure I want to anodize it again, though.

 

[Slow Left]

That's pretty slick.

I'll have to dig around and see if I can find that Saginaw pump that I installed a while back. I believe I found a high pressure hose that went from the pump to the stock '60 steering box directly. I'll see if I can find a part number for that, but it's been a while.

The show stopper for me was the bracket...and why I ended up removing the Saginaw in return to the OEM PS Pump. The bracket I used was held in place using the two front DS headbolts. It didn't seem right to use headbolts in such a manner and expect them to still do their original job. So I'd be interested in learning how you approached your bracket.

 

[rickyrockrat]

Bracket was a PITA to initially build. I used thin cardboard (like cereal box) to make patterns of the bolt hole patterns. The first one was welded/cut/welded a few times. The second one I built from the patterns (mostly). If I build a third, it should be pretty easy. It uses the stock smog pump adjuster bracket. The threads are just tapped into the steel. The Saginaw pump has a strange profile, which is why I had to use 1/2" pipe spacers at the back where the pump mounts.

I used 5/16 scrap steel (I bought a scrap I-beam with 1/4 flanges/5/16 web), which went on my bumper, and the web I use for bits and pieces like this.

I would love to know the part number on the high pressure hose. I just built an adapter, since no one on the planet seems to make that inverted flare to O-ring in 16MM.

 

[rickyrockrat]

I should start a thread on my adventures putting a front FJ60 axle on the back...

 

[lcwizard]

I can supply the patterns for building the bracket, and I might even be convinced to build a 16Mx1.5 Female inverted flare to 16Mx1.5 Female O-ring adapter out of 6061-T6 AL. Not sure I want to anodize it again, though.

I found it easier to use the power steering fitting adapters that go from either the flare or o-ring box/pump to a -6 AN male.
It's very easy to have a a hose made with female AN fittings on each side. Everytime I go to Autozone or Oreilly They never have the hose I want

You can find them at speed shops like Jegs and Summit. EBAY, Amazon and any power steering builder specialist such as PSC also carry them

 

[Slow Left]

Alright, I found my Saginaw PS pump, bracket and high pressure hose.

It appears I got the bracket and high pressure hose from JT Outfitters:

http://www.jtoutfitters.com/power-s...p-4774.html?osCsid=1690800rt5226a6gojse29q6c1

http://www.jtoutfitters.com/saginaw...p-3944.html?osCsid=6sesk5t1udkk81ka7tk4ce7cf5

The JT Outfitter's high pressure hose is custom made with a 16mm fitting for OEM steering box on one end and fitting for the Saginaw reservoir on the other.

Here are the numbers from the two fittings and the hose:

Hose: 3/8" SAE 100 R1AT 2250 PSI max 3Q0834A
Fitting: K9012 MIX-90-06-16MM
Fitting: K8219 MIX-90-06-06

Here is what the fitting looks like (see attached .pdf for a potential supplier):

 

[rickyrockrat]

I found it easier to use the power steering fitting adapters that go from either the flare or o-ring box/pump to a -6 AN male.
It's very easy to have a a hose made with female AN fittings on each side. Everytime I go to Autozone or Oreilly They never have the hose I want

Well, my objective was to be able to buy stock parts from the parts store, so if I am in the middle of nowhere and I blow a hose, I can go to any parts store and get parts, and not have to wait for a weekday to get the hose made (or even be in a town that HAD a hydraulic place). I also wanted to go cheap, and those GM/Chevy parts were cheap and are still plentiful. I already have tubs of radiator, belts and spare parts. I guess adding a high pressure hose wouldn't be awful - but they aren't cheap. They can be more than the P/S pump.

 

[rickyrockrat]

Alright, I found my Saginaw PS pump, bracket and high pressure hose.
Hose: 3/8" SAE 100 R1AT 2250 PSI max 3Q0834A
Fitting: K9012 MIX-90-06-16MM
Fitting: K8219 MIX-90-06-06
View attachment 922523

Thanks for that - Went to http://www.discounthydraulichose.com, and they don't have a MIX-90-06-16MM end that I can find. It would be nice to find an adapter that isn't a daisy chained beastie.

 

[rickyrockrat]

Since we are posting PDFs here, This is my drawing for the adapter I built. This converts from the M16x1.5 inverted flare to the M16x1.5 O-ring style hose. I never bothered making a low pressure adapter, because it is a M17x??, some really odd size.

 

[Slow Left]

Thanks for that - Went to http://www.discounthydraulichose.com, and they don't have a MIX-90-06-16MM end that I can find. It would be nice to find an adapter that isn't a daisy chained beastie.

Yeah, that's what's nice about that JTO hose.

I just did another Google search to see if I could find a supplier for the MIX-90-06-16MM fitting and nothing conclusive came up. I'll keep poking around (maybe even run the other number stamped on it - the K 9012) and maybe search more generally for 'metric hydraulic inverted flare'...

Seems to be an elusive part...maybe that's why JTO charges so much for that hose...

So the threads on this MIX-90-06-16MM part must be metric? Is that read directly from the part number?
EDIT: It must be 16x1.5 right? I double checked the part number stamped on the fitting and still read it as MIX-90-06-16MM.
I'll see if I can confirm the thread size on the fitting sometime this week and post what I find. This might simplify the search.

 

[Slow Left]

Since we are posting PDFs here, This is my drawing for the adapter I built. This converts from the M16x1.5 inverted flare to the M16x1.5 O-ring style hose. I never bothered making a low pressure adapter, because it is a M17x??, some really odd size.

OK. So you screw the M16x1.5 inverted flare side of your custom adaptor into the OEM steering box so that it can now receive a M16x1.5 O-ring style fitting attached to your custom hose. And the M16x1.5 O-ring style fitting is easier to source?

Hmmm. So lcwizard goes a similar route, but uses a commercially available adpator that goes to a 6-AN male, then builds the hose with 6-AN female on either end (...lucky hose...).

I see lots of trade-offs either way.

 

[Slow Left]

Since we are posting PDFs here, This is my drawing for the adapter I built. This converts from the M16x1.5 inverted flare to the M16x1.5 O-ring style hose. I never bothered making a low pressure adapter, because it is a M17x??, some really odd size.

Have you got a .pdf for the bracket? I'm assuming that your bracket mounts to the side of the engine block using the holes that the OEM bracket used. How did you get the face of the pulley to align with the with the face of the crank pulley that the belt runs off of. Looking at the crank pulley with the engine installed, the face of the crank pulley doesn't look to be exactly perpendicular to the ground, but I'm thinking that is just the because the engine itself tilts back slightly.

I'm wondering if I might be able to use an old OEM bracket and repurpose my JTO bracket...marry the two. The JTO bracket does a good job holding onto the Saginaw PS pump and the OEM bracket does a good job holding onto the engine block.

 

[Slow Left]

Here's the MIX90-06-06 (to Saginaw PS Pump) fitting at Discount Hydraulic Hose:

http://www.discounthydraulichose.com/Inverted_Flare_Male_Swivel_p/mix90.htm

I'm wondering if you give them a call, then they might be able to set you up with a small order of these 90* male flare fittings with the 3/8" hose attachment, but with the metric 16x1.5 threads??? That's worth a shot, at least.

I'll double check this week to make sure that the threads on this MIX90-06-16MM side is indeed M16x1.5.

 

[Elbert]

regular 37degree inverted flare fittings mate up with the AN type I believe..? Not unique to this thread but I have a GM pump with remote reservoir and -8 an fitting......normal GM type hydraulic type ps hose mates right to it. I think I said that correctly....anyway the old school hydraulic hose mate to the an fitting without issue.

 

[rickyrockrat]

OK. So you screw the M16x1.5 inverted flare side of your custom adaptor into the OEM steering box so that it can now receive a M16x1.5 O-ring style fitting attached to your custom hose. And the M16x1.5 O-ring style fitting is easier to source?

Correct, and there are lots of stock OEM hoses with M16 O-ring ends, cost about $20, available at any auto parts place, which if you are like me and go to some really out of the way places, you may not can get custom hose.

 

[rickyrockrat]

Have you got a .pdf for the bracket? I'm assuming that your bracket mounts to the side of the engine block using the holes that the OEM bracket used. How did you get the face of the pulley to align with the with the face of the crank pulley that the belt runs off of. Looking at the crank pulley with the engine installed, the face of the crank pulley doesn't look to be exactly perpendicular to the ground, but I'm thinking that is just the because the engine itself tilts back slightly.

I'm wondering if I might be able to use an old OEM bracket and repurpose my JTO bracket...marry the two. The JTO bracket does a good job holding onto the Saginaw PS pump and the OEM bracket does a good job holding onto the engine block.

I have cardboard templates, and yes the bracket mounts just like the OEM one does. There are two ways to align the pulleys. 1) make your bracket adjustable. 2) the Saginaw pump I used has an adjustment on the pulley sheave, so you align the pulley, tighten the sheave bolts, and you are good.

My first bracket had a bit that mounted to the engine block that had slots cut, so I could slide it in and out. Once I had that, I made the second set of templates from the adjusted mount, and the second one is just welded.

I should scan my cardboard templates at 1000 DPI, then translate that to a PDF so I would have 1:1 sizes. The bracket is pretty wacky to build.

 

[rickyrockrat]

Saginaw pumps have different fittings based on the application. I just chose a pump from a vehicle they made zillions of that had a M16 o-ring fitting. There were quite a few vehicles that had a M16 o-ring on the pump and a M16 o-ring on the steering box.

 

[Slow Left]

An update on the MIX-90-06-16MM fitting on the JTO hose that screws directly into the FJ60 OEM PS box:

The MIX-90-06-16MM stamp mark on the fitting indicates that it has metric threads.
I confirmed that it correctly fits a female M16x1.5 thread (and the adaptor you made also used M16x1.5 threads, so the steering box female threads must be M16x1.5).
Also, from visual inspection, the fitting is indeed of the flare type (see image below of the SAE J512 Inverted Flare fitting), but I didn't measure the angle of the flare to confirm that it is 45*. But, because it is a flare type fitting, the inside surface of the fitting must have the appropriate angle to match the flare of the tube.
The 90* elbow tube over which the fitting rides is 3/8" OD (confirming, also, the -06 number in the part number).
Also, just for those who might be on the hunt for a replacement fitting, the height 'H' (see image below) from the tip of the fitting where the threads begin to the base of the head it 1/2".

In the catalog on their site (see attached .pdf), I could not find an inverted flare (45*) fitting with M16x1.5 threads.

So either the male fitting on the part# MIX-90-06-16MM (inverted flare male swivel 90* tube elbow) is a part with M16x1.5 threads (whatever the inside angle of the fitting) that had to be specially slid onto the tube before the flare in the tube was made (and then the flare angle was made to match the angle of the fitting), or it is some standard part that coincidentally fits correctly into female M16x1.5 threads.

Is there a standard thread that will thread correctly into an M16x1.5 mate??

 

[Slow Left]

Correct, and there are lots of stock OEM hoses with M16 O-ring ends, cost about $20, available at any auto parts place, which if you are like me and go to some really out of the way places, you may not can get custom hose.

I'm thinking that the o-ring style fitting might be 'better' than the flare type. An o-ring can be easily replaced, allowing you to reuse the fitting/hose (assuming it is the o-ring that blows out first, before the hose does or another section of the fitting). But the trade-off might come in psi tolerance ratings??

And in your situation, since you have the tools available, that custom adaptor might be a good option, since you can churn them out at will. Kind of ironic that that is more convenient over a commercial supplier, but being out West, that just might be how it goes.

 

[rickyrockrat]

Oh, and you are correct on how that fitting is made. The thread is M16x1.5, which is a standard thread. The tricky part is the ending.

So here's an interesting observation. In the bottom of the pressure port, there is a brass cone that looks suspiciously like the O-Ring to flare adapter I've seen, and I wonder if you took that brass fitting out (I've done it, get a rod close to the hole size and start wiggling it), if a standard M16x1.5 O-ring would fit.

According to published technical data, flare is good, and o-ring is 'excellent'. O-rings are used in heavy equipment where you see up to 8,000 PSI, so the pressure rating of the o-ring is not an issue.