RTH. FF snorkel rivnut fail - how do I fix this?

[kcjaz]

rivnuts did not go in very well but I thought they would still work. They don’t they both spin when I try to screw in the screw and are now a little mangled. I know I have to drill them out but they just spin with the drill. I have not tried pushing hard with the drill. I’m afraid of getting the bit through the rivnut and ending up with a ring of metal around the bit that just spins and won’t let me pull the bit out.

Maybe carefully try to push the rivnut into the holes and let them fall into the A pillar?

 

[eatSleepWoof]

Bad situation. I don't see a way of getting those rivnuts out without causing more damage to the pillar.

At this point I would try something like this:

1. Try to pry the exposed edge of the rivnut such that you can grab it with a vice grip. You will have to be careful so as to not damage the pillar when prying.
2. Grab the exposed edge with a vice grip as tight as you possibly can.
3. Drill out the rivnut while holding it with the vice grip.

Given that rivnuts attach by creating a surface area larger than the hole they're installed into, you will likely have to drill out a larger hole than the rivnut itself, unless you can manage to bend and push the rivnut into the pillar.

Realistically, your best bet may be to hand the truck over to a body shop and let them deal with it.

Rivnuts can work well, but it's critical to install them properly, and to not over-torque the bolts that you run into the rivnuts. For one-shot installations like this, it may even be worth to put some JB-weld on the rivnut right before installing it, so that in addition to the clamping force, at least some adhesive will also be in play to help the rivnut remain in place.

 

[CharlieS]

What I'd probably do:

• Remove interior A-pillar trim and find the backside of the rivnuts
• One at a time
  • Put some locking needle nose vicegrips on the portion of the rivnut that extends into the pillar
  • Have your assistant hold the vicegrips
  • From the outside of the vehicle, with a hammer and small punch/chisel, gently peen the outside rim of the rivnut inward from the outside around the perimeter until the rivnut can pass into the hole and into the vehicle
  • Have your assistant remove the remaining stub with the vice grips
• Install two new rivnuts and do it properly

Or do the same without an assistant and let the rivnut fall into the hole only to rattle and bug you later.

 

[eatSleepWoof]

• Remove interior A-pillar trim and find the backside of the rivnuts

!!

If it's possible to access the backside of the rivnuts from the interior of the pillar, then that's absolutely the way to go!

But at that point I probably wouldn't install new rivnuts at all, and would use normal bolts.

 

[tbisaacs]

I like @CharlieS ’s suggestion. If you can get to the back you can also take pliers and crunch them smaller and pull out the back.

Or- very carefully cut the heads off with a dremel and pull from back.

 

[radman]

I like @CharlieS ’s suggestion. If you can get to the back you can also take pliers and crunch them smaller and pull out the back.

Or- very carefully cut the heads off with a dremel and pull from back.

no way to get back there. I pulled the interior trim to make sure we'd be clear of the airbags.

It's a like a separate cavity...


Did you use a DIY tool to set the rivnuts? Maybe crank down with the tool to lock them better into place?

 

[kcjaz]

Got the rivnuts out with a dremel. There is no way to get to the back side. That’s why the install uses rivnuts to begin with. Had to push the rivnuts into the cavity. May indeed have a permanent rattle. At least I’ll be able to try again.

 

[grinchy]

Got the rivnuts out with a dremel. There is no way to get to the back side. That’s why the install uses rivnuts to begin with. Had to push the rivnuts into the cavity. May indeed have a permanent rattle. At least I’ll be able to try again.

some expanding foam will fix that. J/K. . . I think.

 

[kcjaz]

some expanding foam will fix that. J/K. . . I think.

I’ve already had that idea. I think it would work.

 

[kcjaz]

I'm trying to figure out what it is that went wrong with the rivnut install so I don't do it again.

One thing I know was a contributing factor on the lower hole is that the rivnut couldn't go in exactly perpendicular to the surface if the window sill I was drilling through. The issue is that rivnut insert hits what is the metal back of the A pillar where the airbag is. The insert has to go in a a slight angle. It should be able straighten up after it is compressed a little. I might be able to hammer a small dent in the metal to clear the insert but I don't want to get too crazy with that (don't really want to do that at all). I'll probably take the A pillar interior parts off just to see what I may be dealing with. Had I know this, I could have positioned the snorkel mounting plat a mm to the outside. Since I didn't know, I just positioned it tight against the window sill.

The other thing is that I think I over torqued the rivnuts. The ones supplied with the snorkel were aluminum, or at least really soft metal. I used a rivenut tool but the one I had was for larger rivnuts. I replaced the bolt with an M6 bolt so I don't see how that mattered other than it was easy to put a lot of torque on it. Still, when I've installed rivnuts before its pretty clear when to stop. It usually feels like steady pressure/movement then it suddenly gets much harder. When you feel that stop. I think though that I damaged the threads in the rivnut. I was able to remove the rivnut tool but the M6 screws went in hard and ultimately spun the rivnut.

I'm inclined to not use aluminum rivnuts on try II. I think I'll go with zinc coated CS. I could go SS but if the second set gets fouled up SS will be really hard to remove plus SS can gall easily. Would definitely need lubricant/ anti-seize.

 

[radman]

I'll probably take the A pillar interior parts off just to see what I may be dealing with. Had I know this, I could have positioned the snorkel mounting plat a mm to the outside.

Not sure if these are clear enough to help.

 

[RET2]

One install trick is after drilling correct sized hole take a triangular file and put at least 1 small notch in the sheetmetal there by creating what's commonly a "staked" situation. This can help prevent the insert from turning.

 

[kcjaz]

Not sure if these are clear enough to help.

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Thanks. hard to tell from pics. Doesn't seem like pulling the inside trim off will help me much.

 

[kcjaz]

One install trick is after drilling correct sized hole take a triangular file and put at lease 1 small notch in the sheetmetal there by creating what's commonly a "staked" situation. This can help prevent the insert from turning.

thanks. went to order new rivet nuts but having trouble finding the same size supplied with the snorkel. The only metric M6 rivet nuts I can find either require a 9mm or 10mm hole. The ones supplied with the snorkel said to drill a 9.5 mm hole which is 3/8". I guess I need to go 10mm now. Just odd I can't easily find the same rivet nuts supplied with the snorkel. I have emailed FF about this to see if they can point me.

 

[grinchy]

go up to 10mm for sure

 

[kcjaz]

go up to 10mm for sure

Agreed. Just can't find those on Amazon. Found some 10mm dia M6 ones on "Bolt Depot" but I think it will take more than a week to get them. $%#@! Still looking

 

[radman]

Thanks. hard to tell from pics. Doesn't seem like pulling the inside trim off will help me much.

It won’t. And I wasn’t able to get the trim all the way back on the way it’s supposed to be

The ones supplied with the snorkel said to drill a 9.5 mm hole which is 3/8".

Yea, I used a step bit up to 3/8”, and dint have any issues with the rivnut

 

[CharlieS]

I've had my a-pillar trim off and got it back on correctly. What is pictured in the post above is an installation issue. I'd remove that and try again.

I use aluminum rivnuts fairly regularly. They are fine in the right use case. You're just steadying a snorkel here, not putting a bunch of load on it, right?

I buy them in kits with assorted metric sizes on Amazon. Pretty sure industrial suppliers like McMaster Car have them too (I've purchased steel SAE threaded inserts from them).

You can also buy metric step bits on Amazon. I bought a set of three that was inexpensive and has served me well. Some things (like the LRA tank gauge/switch) need a snug fit (rather than close enough) that metrics bits can give you. Most of the time a standard bit size works well, but some things are better off with properly sized holes. Rivnuts can rotate if you drill the hole too far oversize and they don't grip.

My install tool has a depth adjuster that can be set to prevent over compressing the rivnut (and blowing out the threads). I am unable to physically squeeze past this stop (it is basically a threaded aluminum rod that limits how far the handles can close).

Test a spare out in some scrap material to ensure that you know when to stop.

To get around the issue of hitting the inside sheet metal when installing, you should be able to put the rivnut on the tool, insert the rivnut partially into the hole without putting it in full depth and begin to compress the rivnut, then push it inward until it is flush as you compress it to final fitting.

I like RET2s staking ideal. I'll have to do that going forward.

 

[kcjaz]

I've had my a-pillar trim off and got it back on correctly. What is pictured in the post above is an installation issue. I'd remove that and try again.

I use aluminum rivnuts fairly regularly. They are fine in the right use case. You're just steadying a snorkel here, not putting a bunch of load on it, right?

I buy them in kits with assorted metric sizes on Amazon. Pretty sure industrial suppliers like McMaster Car have them too (I've purchased steel SAE threaded inserts from them).

You can also buy metric step bits on Amazon. I bought a set of three that was inexpensive and has served me well. Some things (like the LRA tank gauge/switch) need a snug fit (rather than close enough) that metrics bits can give you. Most of the time a standard bit size works well, but some things are better off with properly sized holes. Rivnuts can rotate if you drill the hole too far oversize and they don't grip.

My install tool has a depth adjuster that can be set to prevent over compressing the rivnut (and blowing out the threads). I am unable to physically squeeze past this stop (it is basically a threaded aluminum rod that limits how far the handles can close).

Test a spare out in some scrap material to ensure that you know when to stop.

To get around the issue of hitting the inside sheet metal when installing, you should be able to put the rivnut on the tool, insert the rivnut partially into the hole without putting it in full depth and begin to compress the rivnut, then push it inward until it is flush as you compress it to final fitting.

I like RET2s staking ideal. I'll have to do that going forward.

Thanks Charlie, is the rivnut tool you have a pistol type or lever type (looks like a bolt cutter)?

 

[grinchy]

Here's an example of one with the compression scale (that yellow scale in between the arms. You look at the Rivnut specs, which will say the compression distance, set the tool to that much throw, and away you go.
Amazon product ASIN B00R1FYLWU