Rough running, then this morning, hard to start, then...

[markthemenace]

I should've driven it, but i was late for my First Aid Course (exams tomorrow!!!) and so she took the cruiser to church.

They couldn't start it of course. I suspected tank vents (mine are completely rotted away) might be blocked. So first thing I did when I arrived on scene was to open the fill cap, and sure enough, BIG whoosh of air.

Tried starting a few times, and stil no start. So got up on the bumper to get at the pump primer. Tried again, some coughs, a hiccup and she starts right up.

Yesterday, when I was out driving, the car started to feel like it was running out of fuel. Drop a gear, boot it, and it would hesitate but then, the revs would pick up and I thought the Cruiser just needed an Italian tuneup cos of the last few days of my wife's slow driving.

Anyway, the car is at my buddy's shop and I'll be popping over after exams tomorrow to see what I can do. So...what can I do? Is my scene assessment correct in that the IP is starved for fuel due to a blockage of the vents? How do I fix the vents? There's an overflow pipe that should lead right to the road right? How come that is not venting the tank?

Finally, is there anything else that would cause this condition? Thanks guys!! I'm off to study (more) now, but will check this thread from time to time to answer an questions.

 

[kim]

I would wager air in your system, likely from a leaking manual primer pump. Common symptoms would be leaking fuel when operating the manual primer.

I would prime it, bleed the fuel filter till no air, then crack the nut on each injector to bleed air until they stop bubbling.

 

[markthemenace]

I would wager air in your system, likely from a leaking manual primer pump. Common symptoms would be leaking fuel when operating the manual primer.

I would prime it, bleed the fuel filter till no air, then crack the nut on each injector to bleed air until they stop bubbling.

The manual pump?? Hmmm never thought of that. Yes, it squirted like the devil himself when I was pumping it, but I thought that was quite common with these older ones. The one on my Merc is exactly the same squirts all over the place when priming.

Prior to that, it's always been dry and clean, without a trace of oil or diesel on it at all. Would introduction of air cause the car to not be able to start at all? What about the suction of air when the cap is opened? Is this normal?

What about the fuel filter (which I have not changed)? Could it be blocked? If so how could I have started it? Lots of questions and I'm pretty much dazed now...thanks guys.

 

[aroscow]

Take one step at a time

Air in fuel lines is bad and will stop her starting or running, should have none.

There is a diaphragm in the hand primer that leaks air in. One thing that helps stop fuel draining back when she is off is to fit a non return valve in the fuel line before the fuel filter.

Also clean the vent in the fuel cap - easy to do but DONT lose the spring so be careful

also you have a pressure release valve on the tank - then outlet will be above the rear axle, most likely pushed into a hollow in the frame (likely blocked up)

if your seals in the fuel pump are leaking that needs sorting.

 

[markthemenace]

Take one step at a time

Air in fuel lines is bad and will stop her starting or running, should have none.

There is a diaphragm in the hand primer that leaks air in. One thing that helps stop fuel draining back when she is off is to fit a non return valve in the fuel line before the fuel filter.

Also clean the vent in the fuel cap - easy to do but DONT lose the spring so be careful

also you have a pressure release valve on the tank - then outlet will be above the rear axle, most likely pushed into a hollow in the frame (likely blocked up)

if your seals in the fuel pump are leaking that needs sorting.

Thanks for the tips. If the car has started already and ran without issue for about 15 minutes (to my buddy's place) would that rule out air?

If the primer pump is letting air in, would it show by being oily? The pressure relief valves...is that the bunch of metal line under the fuel inlet hose? Mine are all completely corroded.

 

[markthemenace]

I might add that the whoosh I hear upon opening the cap is not the sound of air coming out, but air rushing in, which seems to indicate that the tank is under severe vacuum and could well be starving the IP. My cap is metal, and ive not noticed any kind of hole in it to vent.

 

[bcsteel]

I had a similar issue with a bj45 turned I had a small crack in my water separator. Might be worth a look

 

[kim]

Thanks for the tips. If the car has started already and ran without issue for about 15 minutes (to my buddy's place) would that rule out air?

If the primer pump is letting air in, would it show by being oily? The pressure relief valves...is that the bunch of metal line under the fuel inlet hose? Mine are all completely corroded.

Your vehicle may or may not start with air in the lines and the fact that it ran for 15 minutes does not rule out air in the lines in my experience. The hand primer will let in air if it is leaking diesel. I would start by replacing this part with the Bosch one, bleed your system and go from there.

 

[markthemenace]

Your vehicle may or may not start with air in the lines and the fact that it ran for 15 minutes does not rule out air in the lines in my experience. The hand primer will let in air if it is leaking diesel. I would start by replacing this part with the Bosch one, bleed your system and go from there.

Thanks Kim, do you happen to have a part number please?

 

[kim]

Toyota: 22501-77021
Denso: 09219-50
Bosch: 2 447 222 125 or 2 447 222 126
NAPA lists this part as "Part Number: ATM 0000908850" at cost of $18.99.

 

[brewmasterii]

Can anyone answer his question about the vacuum in the tank? Is that OK? I would fix that before chasing other ghosts. I don't think that I've EVER had a vacuum in my tank.

Kelvin

 

[kim]

My tank creates vacuum if I use the FJ62 gas cap which I don't think is vented because I get a large amount of air going in the tank when I go to fill. I have not encountered any problems because of this although I have read that there are issues.
.
My truck is a 2H swapped into a 62 series using the 62 tank and pick up.

The reason I point immediately to the manual primer to be replaced is that it is a common issue of his symtoms AND it needs to be replaced because it isn't functioning correctly anyway. (not to mention dumps fuel on the ground when in operation)

 

[brewmasterii]

My apologies. I missed the part about the leaky primer. Definitely get that fixed.

But that could also be a symptom of a stopped up vent in the tank. If the IP is sucking really hard to get fuel it will start to suck air from any leaks as well. Nature abhors a vacuum.

Kelvin

 

[kim]

The only vent is the cap itself, no?

 

[brewmasterii]

I think there's one that vents into your rear axle. I'd go take a look but it's -29 Celsius out there right now.

Kelvin

 

[brewmasterii]

The more I think about it, that may have a check valve on it and only vent out. I.E. release pressure built up within the tank, not vice versa. Or not. Either way I believe it does have a check valve. The question is - does it release pressure or vacuum?

 

[kim]

I think you are referring to the rear diff breather which isn't connected to the tank.

 

[brewmasterii]

This is what I'm talking about. Is it a rear diff breather?

https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/424622-what-part-what-does-do-hdj81.html


Kelvin

Sorry I had the wrong URL in there. Had to change it.

The other URL has an exploded view of the tank - in Russian but the vent is there too.
http://toyota.epcdata.ru/land_cruiser/hzj81v/126565/body/7751/?full&picture=2

 

[markthemenace]

Toyota: 22501-77021
Denso: 09219-50
Bosch: 2 447 222 125 or 2 447 222 126
NAPA lists this part as "Part Number: ATM 0000908850" at cost of $18.99.

Amazing! That's the exact same part that my old Mercedes uses! The Bosch one that is.

 

[markthemenace]

Your vehicle may or may not start with air in the lines and the fact that it ran for 15 minutes does not rule out air in the lines in my experience. The hand primer will let in air if it is leaking diesel. I would start by replacing this part with the Bosch one, bleed your system and go from there.

OK, since I now know what the part is, I will probably just replace it. If its anything like the Merc one, a simple crows-foot wrench would do the trick right? My Merc one has leaked every time I opened it up to prime the fuel pump, some people say i shouldn't, but I have it on good advice that it states in the Merc dealer training that it will leak when open and pumping, but not after screwing it in tight. When its screwed down tight, it does not leak diesel at all.

My Merc's been running like that for about 250k without issue. But...if its a known Cruiser issue, I might as well change it eh.