Rough running, then this morning, hard to start, then...

[markthemenace]

If your old one is like this one then I doubt you'll find any replacement seals available for it Mark: (The seal is far more sophisticated than just an O-ring, and I had to cut mine open with a hacksaw to even look inside.)

OEM fuel primer for 1979 BJ40:

The EPC now suggests to me (after studying it more closely than I did the first time) that you don't have a return line back to the tank at all.

I think the second line you see on your tank will be the one leading to your rusty SQUID. (I like that descriptive name too. )

Sounds to me like you may have nailed it then Mark (with your initial instincts being right on the ball)!

Vacuum in the tank is good IMO because it inhibits condensation from forming inside which in turn inhibits internal rust formation. I usually still have some vacuum left in my tank even after my vehicle has sat undriven for days on end.

However there must obviously be some mechanism for fresh air to enter and for all I know my cap plays its part with a vacuum-limiting feature too.

Exactly how are you testing your caps? (Maybe I can try testing mine?)

Ah heck, that sure looks like more than an o-ring indeed. There is still some vacuum in the tank for sure. But with the new cap, much much less.

Testing the new cap was easy, just suck on it!! There will be an initial resistance and then a air will start to flow. To test the old one, I would just get a large diameter pipe and fit it around the rubber gasket and suck on it. If there's no give, then ostensibly, there will be no way for air to get into the tank and you'll be starving your IP needlessly.

I know that in a Merc, there's a check valve that opens at a couple of millibars vacuum. This means that there's always some measure of vacuum in the tank.

Well I'll see what happens over the next couple of days once I install the new Bosch pump and napa gold fuel filter! Got quite a good deal at napa for that, about $10 only, with BCAA discount/

 

[kim]

Btw, I had a good look at my IP, and can't seem to find a return to the tank either. Can't figure it out, as I clearly seem to remember seeing two lines coming out parallel to each other, from the tank. It's too bloody wet to crawl under the Cruiser, but I'm going to have to maybe tomorrow, to put this one to rest once and for all!

Btw Norway, the 'squid' is a perfect description! Sadly though, on mine it's just a rusted tangle of metal tubes. I'm thinking of cutting it all out and cleaning it up. Damn...just so much rust :-(

Your return fuel line comes off the injector rail on #1 and feeds down beside the block, behind the injection pump to the feed or primer pump. There is a section of 4 1/2 inches of 3/16 rubber fuel line. This joins the hardline off the injection rail to a hardline that goes to the feed pump. There should be clamps on either end of this line. If your truck is a Cdn truck, you do not have a return to the tank, AFAIK.

And, I too love the squid descriptor!

 

[TLC Norway]

As i stated earlier, the squid had several purposes.
One of them is to let air into the tank.
If yours is rotted out, start there! It's probably just a clean up, maybe some hoses are dead, but i guess it's only clogged, since its holding vacuum.

I dont think having a release valve on the cap is good. When you drive in water, the tank cools down, pressure drops in the tank, air needs to enter tank.
When in water or moist conditions, i would not want that to be sucked in at the cap, then it could suck water in.
Thats another benefit of the squid. It sucks air from the quarter panel.
We all know the old toy engineers had smart solutions.

i'm not really sure why SOME of the caps had release valves in them, mine does not.
It's only when i drain the tank, that i wanna let air in thru the filler neck, because the squid cant keep up.

And i am 99%sure there is no return line to the tank from the ip.
But there is two or more going out of the tank, look at this:
ToyoDIY.com

 

[roscoFJ73]

Rosco, mine have had a vacuum so tight that I need two hands to open it. The new cap does also have a whoosh to it, but it's far and away a much smaller whoosh!! I feel l may have licked my vacuum problem. Need to drive the Cruiser more to be sure!

Faulty or incorrect cap for the system I would say.

I'd like to fix the actual tank vent though, so if anyone has pictures it would be much appreciated.

Apart from the hose that runs up alongside the filler neck,there is only the octopus like gadget they call the "evaporative fuel separator assembly".
I dont know if anyone has fully come to terms with that one yet.

Im not sure about the HJ60,but some HJ75 of similar vintage had a small in line white plastic one way valve that you can see by looking up from under the rear RH quarter,between the tank and the body.
Its round and about 2.5cm in diameter and has a directional arrow stamped on it.

 

[lostmarbles]

Great discussion here. (I love being educated about my cruiser .. so thankyou Mark, Rosco, TLC, Kim & anyone else who's been contributing.)

Just now I had a good close look at the filler cap on my 1979 BJ40 for the first time.

I know it is "the factory-original cap" and right there in the centre of the bit that sits inside the filler neck is clearly a valve that is quite obviously for "vacuum release purposes"!

Damn! Why have I never noticed that before?

I guess I assumed my cap may not have held a vacuum-release valve (and that the octapus/squid/twisted-eel performed the vacuum-release job instead) because the vent-hole is completely hidden (and thus very well protected from sucking in stray water droplets).

And filler neck on my 1979 is certainly higher than I'm ever prepared to go when wading through deep water. (When people wade THAT DEEP, getting water in their fuel is just one of a great multitude of things they should be concerned about IMO .... even though I know it's fun. ---- That's why I prefer to simply be a spectator when such fun is being had! )

 

[markthemenace]

Yes indeed great info and a wealth of experience here! Now can anyone tell me how on earth to remove that primer pump assembly? I've been at it for awhile now with vice grips and it's stuck solidly on!!

I'm thinking the only thing with sufficient leverage is going to be a crows foot with extension bar. I can't see how to reach it from underneath (or maybe cos it's just to cold and wet for me to crawl under) but from the top and the distance my hands have to reach into the compartment (I'm already standing on the front bumper) I don't have much leverage!! How have you guys done it before?

As soon as its warmer and drier, I'm going to take what's left of my squid and see if I can recreate it with regular hose.

Come to think of it, Rosco, when you replaced all your fuel lines did you use hard lines or regular viton hose?

 

[TLC Norway]

Obout removing the primer pump, i also had a problem removing the probably original one, seized in there real good. I wrecked the spanner grips, so i ended up drilling a 10mm hole right thru it, leaving the drillbit there, heating it up with air gun, extended pipe going over the prinerwith nothces in both ends to get it on the drillbit and a big wrench up high. All for that little s***. I think the heat was the key, and momentum. now i just attached the new one with "normal" tourqe on the 17mm spanner.

Later when i had my injection pump out, i figured it was no big deal to actually take the whole feed pump assembly off the IP.

 

[kim]

I used vice grips to remove the primer, and possibly a 2lb hammer on the vice grips. Penetrating fluid like Move IT is your friend too.

Also, a six inch step or concrete block is a most excellent 'tool' to stand on beside your cruiser to reach such things as the primer and bleeding everything.

 

[markthemenace]

Yikes!! So it sounds like no easy way to do it then!! Since its not urgent, I'm going to think about it for awhile and see what I can come up with that doesn't involve hammering away bent over the engine bay!

 

[roscoFJ73]

Come to think of it, Rosco, when you replaced all your fuel lines did you use hard lines or regular viton hose?

Ive only replaced the hoses in the engine bay a few years back when I had an airleak.The brand of fuel line I used was Goss,Goss has a acrylonitrile inner coating making it resitant to all types of hydrocarbons.
Viton is registerd trademark of Dupont and has been around since 1958,but I think by now anyone making fuel hose,gaskets and seals would have to be making something that would come up to that standard.
Viton claim their products meets OHS and emmision standards,so all of them probably do by now.

Someone told me that the leading manufacturers of seals/gaskets all switched over to materials that were resistant to low sulpher diesel long before it was introduced.
But its not just the low sulpher diesel Viton(fluoroelastomers) are resistant to,its resists heat as well.
Which it means it doesnt crumble or lose its strength in the engine bay.

 

[lostmarbles]

Back on the subject of fuel caps .... I took a couple of pics this morning for my ih8mud photo-library... so I figured I should throw them in here (for the benefit of people who stumble on this thread during searches in the future).

Factory-original fuel cap for 1979 BJ40:







Ooops. Dirty fingernails!

 

[kim]

I feel like crying every time you post a picture of your Cruiser, Tom.

It is beautiful! Mine is covered in salt and sand right now.

 

[markthemenace]

Yes, nothing like a clean Cruiser eh. Ours are all covered in salt and rust (or at least mine is).

In keeping with the fuel cap theme, here's mine, which I think is a typical HJ60 one.

Here's what it looks like inside, the new cap is in the background.

Here's what the new cap looks like inside:

Now I fear there's still something going on with my venting system, perhaps the cap isn't enough of a vent! I say this because the NEW cap was HARD to open just now to take the pix! Still could do it one-handed, but there was lots of gurgling and burping going on when I opened it, so I really don't know what's going on. I couldn't take photos of my Squid as the camera ran out of juice, but I would really like to get that out of the way!!

 

[lostmarbles]

... there was lots of gurgling and burping going on when I opened it, so I really don't know what's going on. ....!!

Sounds weird Mark.

Alternative medicine is becoming more and more prevalent these days so perhaps it's time people began accepting the alternative approach to vehicle repairs too.

But just like traditional automotive repair work, you really need to invest time and money in education/training and in obtaining quality tools and safety equipment. Anyway here's how I think I'd tackle it:



Your tank has become possessed by one or more demons IMHO.

Be careful out there. There are invariably risks associated with using "alternative mechanics".

PS. Fortuitously, I offer distance-education courses in "alternative-mechanics". (Cash in advance. Guaranteed results. All credit cards accepted.)






.... Seriously though ... This is weird. I never get burps and gurgles when I remove my cap. ("Fuel" I mean ... I may indeed fart when I remove remove head-gear.)

 

[TLC Norway]

holy crap, that just made my day!
-and i'll effeminately sign up for the alternative-mechanics full swift three-course!

good night!

 

[markthemenace]

Sounds weird Mark.

Alternative medicine is becoming more and more prevalent these days so perhaps it's time people began accepting the alternative approach to vehicle repairs too.

But just like traditional automotive repair work, you really need to invest time and money in education/training and in obtaining quality tools and safety equipment. Anyway here's how I think I'd tackle it:

View attachment 593622

Your tank has become possessed by one or more demons IMHO.

Be careful out there. There are invariably risks associated with using "alternative mechanics".

PS. Fortuitously, I offer distance-education courses in "alternative-mechanics". (Cash in advance. Guaranteed results. All credit cards accepted.)






.... Seriously though ... This is weird. I never get burps and gurgles when I remove my cap. ("Fuel" I mean ... I may indeed fart when I remove remove head-gear.)

HAHAHAH1!! I just about busted my gut there Tom! Great picture, complete with the red-eye effect and all. Yes, sometimes I do really believe its possessed for sure!

But yes, seriously, the gurgles have come twice now, and well, I don't really care, as the cruiser runs just fine, but the only thing I can think of, is that there's fuel held in suspension by my non-operative, rusted-out, taken-a-life-of-its-own squid. Then when the cap is opened, its allowed to "breathe out" as it were.

Alternative mechanics...now that's an idea worth exploring eh!

 

[kim]

One of the better laughs I have had for a while!

Thank you, Tom, above and beyond.