Hello I am currently replacing my pinion seals and bearings. Here are a picture of my ring and pinion gears. Are these still good or look worn? Thanks! 1995 cruiser 287,000miles
Ring and Pinion Quality Question (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Lovlyemmz
- Start date
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TurboDennis
SILVER Star
Unless there is obvious visible damage on the teeth (which these dont have), nobody will be able to tell you if those are still usable or not by looking at those pictures.
You need to check the tooth contact pattern between ring and pinion, and that will tell you what shape they're in.
You need to check the tooth contact pattern between ring and pinion, and that will tell you what shape they're in.
They certainly haven't been abused, but you need to toss a dial indicator on the assembly and check back lash and pinion side play.
If the indicator readings check out you'll need to check the contact patch with a special grease called ring gear marking compound.
If the indicator readings check out you'll need to check the contact patch with a special grease called ring gear marking compound.
Ring and Pinion Backlash Measurements
Backlash between the ring and pinion gear is set after the pinion gear is installed and adjusted. Side bearing preload is adjusted while performing the backlash check. What is ring and pinion gear backlash? Measurements explained - Ring and pinion gear backlash is set with a dial gauge.
www.freeasestudyguides.com
- Thread starter
- #4
According to the dial indicator the backlash is .008
If this is the rear, According to my '96 FSM page SA-80 you are at the upper limit .0079" max. (I'm not going to argue over .0001" most peeps can't reliably find .0001 with a 50 millionths indicator)
If you are working on the front you are .001 over the upper limit of .0071". page SA-29
If you are working on the front you are .001 over the upper limit of .0071". page SA-29
- Thread starter
- #6
It’s the front. Ah I can live with that
Malleus
Far west of Siegen
You do need to print the pattern to be sure that the teeth are wearing properly.
You don't need any special sauce to check a contact pattern; it's just helpful. The problem with checking the pattern is that you have to have clean teeth or the marking compound will smear, and that's no bueno.
If the gears weren't noisy (noisier than everyone else's), they're probably OK. However, since you have the carrier out, you might as well print them. Any colored greasy (not grease) compound will do; the white and yellow stuff is used only because it gives a good contrast (just like Brill Cream, a little dab'll do you). You want to mark at least five teeth, in three places, 120° apart, approximately.
If you can find the real marking compound, use it, it's not expensive, however you'll never use it for anything else. In a pinch, you can use a Sharpie. I'd try something bright. Like yellow or white.
What you're looking for is a wear pattern on the drive side that is a little more towards the toe (the outer end of the tooth) than the root ( to bottom of the tooth) and centered from side to side. The coast side should be centered both ways. What is acceptable is a matter of great debate and you'll get as many opinions as answers, if you ask. The gears will not be set up the way they were when they were new, because both they, and the bearings, are worn. To what degree is they are worn, and which one(s) are worn, is what you're printing and measuring backlash to find.
When the gears are set on the assembly line, the only check is backlash and that is not measured directly - the shim thickness is measured and compared to a chart; it's assumed that the machining is correct on all parts and if everything goes together according to plan, you'll never know what the original pattern was. When you have a specialty shop setup a new carrier assembly (what, for some reason I still can't divine, is referred to here as a third member), they both check the backlash and print the gears. The reason they do this is that they have the time. They're not building 500 of these a day, like the assembly lines do. The only time a gearset ever gets printed on the assembly line is a) if it's selected for a random quality audit, or b) if the backlash shims don't work when it's set up on the assembly fixture.
You'll need to run the pinion input about 5 or 6 times, in both directions, to properly print the teeth, but speed is not important, or even required. Connect a bar to the pinion input flange and turn away. It doesn't have to be bolted on, but that might help. In a pinch, a piece of pipe between the bolts in the flange will work, just be careful with the threads.
Remember, if the gear oil hasn't been cleaned out of the case, you'll just have a mess for your time.
NAPA gear marking compound
AC Delco gear marking compound
Summit Racing gear marking compound
etc., etc. (I like the stuff in the tube best)
I would not recommend Prussian blue, the contrast is not there (the gears have a black oxide finish on them and blue on black, well, you know the song), however you can use it for many other projects
You don't need any special sauce to check a contact pattern; it's just helpful. The problem with checking the pattern is that you have to have clean teeth or the marking compound will smear, and that's no bueno.
If the gears weren't noisy (noisier than everyone else's), they're probably OK. However, since you have the carrier out, you might as well print them. Any colored greasy (not grease) compound will do; the white and yellow stuff is used only because it gives a good contrast (just like Brill Cream, a little dab'll do you). You want to mark at least five teeth, in three places, 120° apart, approximately.
If you can find the real marking compound, use it, it's not expensive, however you'll never use it for anything else. In a pinch, you can use a Sharpie. I'd try something bright. Like yellow or white.
What you're looking for is a wear pattern on the drive side that is a little more towards the toe (the outer end of the tooth) than the root ( to bottom of the tooth) and centered from side to side. The coast side should be centered both ways. What is acceptable is a matter of great debate and you'll get as many opinions as answers, if you ask. The gears will not be set up the way they were when they were new, because both they, and the bearings, are worn. To what degree is they are worn, and which one(s) are worn, is what you're printing and measuring backlash to find.
When the gears are set on the assembly line, the only check is backlash and that is not measured directly - the shim thickness is measured and compared to a chart; it's assumed that the machining is correct on all parts and if everything goes together according to plan, you'll never know what the original pattern was. When you have a specialty shop setup a new carrier assembly (what, for some reason I still can't divine, is referred to here as a third member), they both check the backlash and print the gears. The reason they do this is that they have the time. They're not building 500 of these a day, like the assembly lines do. The only time a gearset ever gets printed on the assembly line is a) if it's selected for a random quality audit, or b) if the backlash shims don't work when it's set up on the assembly fixture.
You'll need to run the pinion input about 5 or 6 times, in both directions, to properly print the teeth, but speed is not important, or even required. Connect a bar to the pinion input flange and turn away. It doesn't have to be bolted on, but that might help. In a pinch, a piece of pipe between the bolts in the flange will work, just be careful with the threads.
Remember, if the gear oil hasn't been cleaned out of the case, you'll just have a mess for your time.
NAPA gear marking compound
AC Delco gear marking compound
Summit Racing gear marking compound
etc., etc. (I like the stuff in the tube best)
I would not recommend Prussian blue, the contrast is not there (the gears have a black oxide finish on them and blue on black, well, you know the song), however you can use it for many other projects
Last edited:
- Thread starter
- #8
Wow! Thank you for this write up. Very very helpful.You do need to print the pattern to be sure that the teeth are wearing properly.
You don't need any special sauce to check a contact pattern; it's just helpful. The problem with checking the pattern is that you have to have clean teeth or the marking compound will smear, and that's no bueno.
If the gears weren't noisy (noisier than everyone else's), they're probably OK. However, since you have the carrier out, you might as well print them. Any colored greasy (not grease) compound will do; the white and yellow stuff is used only because it gives a good contrast (just like Brill Cream, a little dab'll do you). You want to mark at least five teeth, in three places, 120° apart, approximately.
If you can find the real marking compound, use it, it's not expensive, however you'll never use it for anything else. In a pinch, you can use a Sharpie. I'd try something bright. Like yellow or white.
What you're looking for is a wear pattern on the drive side that is a little more towards the toe (the outer end of the tooth) than the root ( to bottom of the tooth) and centered from side to side. The coast side should be centered both ways. What is acceptable is a matter of great debate and you'll get as many opinions as answers, if you ask. The gears will not be set up the way they were when they were new, because both they, and the bearings, are worn. To what degree is they are worn, and which one(s) are worn, is what you're printing and measuring backlash to find.
When the gears are set on the assembly line, the only check is backlash and that is not measured directly - the shim thickness is measured and compared to a chart; it's assumed that the machining is correct on all parts and if everything goes together according to plan, you'll never know what the original pattern was. When you have a specialty shop setup a new carrier assembly (what, for some reason I still can't divine, is referred to here as a third member), they both check the backlash and print the gears. The reason they do this is that they have the time. They're not building 500 of these a day, like the assembly lines do. The only time a gearset ever gets printed on the assembly line is a) if it's selected for a random quality audit, or b) if the backlash shims don't work when it's set up on the assembly fixture.
You'll need to run the pinion input about 5 or 6 times, in both directions, to properly print the teeth, but speed is not important, or even required. Connect a bar to the pinion input flange and turn away. It doesn't have to be bolted on, but that might help. In a pinch, a piece of pipe between the bolts in the flange will work, just be careful with the threads.
Remember, if the gear oil hasn't been cleaned out of the case, you'll just have a mess for your time.
NAPA gear marking compound
AC Delco gear marking compound
Summit Racing gear marking compound
etc., etc. (I like the stuff in the tube best)
I would not recommend Prussian blue, the contrast is not there (the gears have a black oxide finish on them and blue on black, well, you know the song), however you can use it for many other projects
At 300k they are broken in just now.
