Request for a HOWTO thread - how to weld

[norsk]

Ok, I do many things myself. I build my own computers, my own firearms (from parts), most of the repairs on my house, my own solar generator on my house and a portable unit. BUT....

I don't know how to weld. The local university will have a class this fall, but I would like to learn some jargon and names of things, etc before then.

Would some wiser and more knowledgeable types post some beginner steps on welding? Something like Welding 101 for smart yet ignorant students.

I do know that there are arc welders and there are torches. But have no idea of the best times to use either.. Additionally, recommendations on what and which
to buy first. What parts there are, things to watch out for. (Some bait: What about Harbor Freight stuff? -- that might generate some input)

Mentors welcome

doug t

 

[DC88FJ62]

Doug,
I am with you buddy, I would really like advice in this area as well.

Brian

 

[pjfairchild]

Take the class.
For beginners, I would recommend a wire feed (MIG) welder. 110 volt machines and small wire will do basic body panel repairs, anything over 1/8 thick you need 220 volt machine. Practice makes perfect, so invest in plenty of scrap metal before your blow dime sized holes in your body panels. It's really not that hard, but there is quite an investment for an occasional hobby. There is probably a reasonably priced and very underemployed welder in a full time shop near you.

 

[inkpot]

Howdy! 2X on the class. It is the best way to learn the whole story. You can DIY learn it, but it's not easy. You can pickup manuals from the major welding equipment makers, like Hobart at your local welding supply shop. You can also get them next to the auo repair manuals at your local car parts store. John

 

[lowtops]

Where to start?

I am in my third semester of welding classes. So all of this is still fresh. I am by no means an expert so those that are please correct me if I'm wrong.

If you are planning on taking a class and just want to learn to weld and don't have aspirations of being a professional welder look into what my school calls "Audit". You can audit a class which means you pay for the class but don't have to take the tests or do the book work and you don't get a grade. What you get is shop time to work on what you want to (within reason). This way you could follow the curriculum until you feel comfortable and then work on your own projects. This gives you access to a full welding shop at a fraction of the cost to buy the equipment used and plenty of experience to keep an eye on you. There is a guy in my class this semester who is working on an old Harley. He has TIG welded the transmission case and engine block and re-welded the factory frame in several spots. He takes one class every semester and just works on personal projects.

Part 1

Welding Processes: Just like everything else welding is full of compromise.

MIG-Metal Inert Gas=GMAW-Gas Metal Arc Welding- Is probably the quickest and easiest to use for the hobbyist. The weld is performed by pressing a trigger on a "gun" that feeds the consumable wire at a pre-determined speed and amperage and allows an inert gas to flow around the wire and over the weld pool effectively blocking oxygen, nitrogen, and other atmospheric gases from contaminating the weld. This process is great but it does have limitations. It does not penetrate as much as stick, unless you are using flux-core. Flux-core in my opinion is a way to get stick performance with the ease of MIG. Also you don't have to use a shielding gas with flux core. Another drawback is the process to MIG weld aluminum is not optimum. A separate and expensive gun is needed because the aluminum wire is so soft it has to be pulled and pushed instead of just pushed.

TIG-Tungsten Inert Gas=GTAW-Gas Tungsten Arc Welding- Is very precise, clean, and versatile in the types of metal you can weld. It's slower than MIG and not the best for production. The weld is performed by the use of a t-shaped tungsten holder that allows and inert gas to flow over the weld pool. The arc is either struck by touching the base metal (not preferred) or a foot pedal is used to gradually increase the amperage. The tungsten has to be kept very clean and I have heard that in some cases if you have to sharpen (clean) your tungsten more than twice in a day your fired. In this process the tungsten is not consumed in the weld and a filler metal has to be added with the free hand manually.

Stick=SMAW-Sheilded Metal Arc Welding- This type of welding is the oldest and most versatile in terms of being able to change electrodes quickly, no shielding gas is needed, and a lot of stick welders are also generators so no external power source is needed. It's also the hardest to master because there are so many variables to maintain as the weld progresses. Used mainly in bulding applications and pipefitting.
The weld is accomplished by inserting a properly selected electrode into the electrode holder, setting the amperage needed to keep the electrode from sticking to the base metal (adjust as needed from there),and striking an arc on the base metal until a sufficient weld pool has been established and continuing from there.

There are other processes, but the above three are the most common and most of the others are automated and don't pertain to the hobbyist.


Part 2

Welding Positions

There are four main welding positions for plate welding and add a couple more for pipe welding.

F=Fillet Weld
G=Groove Weld

Positions are numbered and increase in difficulty as the numbers go up. You are mainly fighting gravity. Gravity wants to pull the molten metal down as you go to position 2, 3, & 4.

For plate:
1F or G= Flat position
2F or G= Horizontal position
3F or G= Vertical position
4F or G= Overhead Position

For pipe: # will always be followed by a G
In addition to the above;
5G= Horizontal fixed position
6G= 45 degree angle fixed position

6G is considered the hardest because it incorporates all of the position in one weld. You have to adjust you weld depending upon which part of the pipe you are welding. Add to this the fact that you will have to weld one side that is opposite your good hand. For example, I'm left-handed and welding a pipe from the bottom (most always start at the bottom) and going up the left side is hard for me, whereas the right side is easy.


Is this the type of information you were looking for? Is this too much information? I can go on, just let me know.

 

[liljlandon]

Lowtop,

You have either retained more than I did or used a book!

The welding class is your best bet, IMO. You can learn with their equipment at a fraction of what it would cost to supply your own. Then, when you figure out EXACTLY what you want, you can go and get yourself the right welder.

On a side note, If you want to jump in... MIG is basically point and shoot, fast and easy. But DO NOT waste your money on a 110V unit. Biggest mistake purchase wise I made with my welding stuff. Sometimes you just dont want to take the time to arc weld it.

BTW- I went ahead and did the pipe welding class at my local CC and certified for SMAW, then went to college to become a teacher. Good skill to have, I have been questioned about it at all my interviews.

 

[johns94cruiser]

My kind of thread. Hope I am not hijacking.

When I was in HS 25 years ago I did a lot of stick welding. It has been awhile but I am planning on making some armor for my truck and am getting ready to buy a used welder. Obviously 220, but what specific machines would you guys recommend? I would obviously like to get the most welder for the smallest $$$.

I don't plan on doing any aluminum, just steel.

 

[yycranger4x4]

Also, there are already many resources on the web in regards to welding. Check out YouTube, as there are many how-to videos on there already.

Another great resource is WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts - Powered by vBulletin. There is tons of explanations, and lots of great welding ideas/projects.

 

[fj40charles]

Also, there are already many resources on the web in regards to welding. Check out YouTube, as there are many how-to videos on there already.

Another great resource is WeldingWeb™ - Welding forum for pros and enthusiasts - Powered by vBulletin. There is tons of explanations, and lots of great welding ideas/projects.

I'd be leery of weldingweb. Too many cheap chinese welding equipment vendors that censor your posting.

If you want better info, go to Miller's web site.
Welding Discussions - Miller Welding Discussion Forums

 

[PAToyota]

Another vote for finding a local community college course. I went the "self taught" route for a number of years - mainly reading books (online wasn't as much of an option back then). Sort of felt that I was hitting a wall with TIG work so signed up for a class through the community college.

I was surprised at how much I didn't know about MIG and stick and how quickly I improved when someone was standing there saying things like "ok, adjust the settings so it sounds like this" and "try moving the torch like this" and so forth.

You can read about "frying bacon" and weaving the torch and all that, but seeing it done right and having someone provide those little adjustments to make it perfect just doesn't come from words alone.

 

[Lee777]

Experience from a rookie

This is a great thread

There are so many rust patches on my pig I figured there was no way I could afford to pay a professional to do it. However at the same time I want good looking results... A bit of a conundrum.

I second the idea of auditing a welding class, that genious. I would love to do that. I have no prior experience and any theory i have gained, i acquired from the web.

I jumped into it by first buying a Lincoln Mig welder with gas shielding. I first practiced on some 20 gauge sheet metal. Practiced but welds mostly since my goal was to patch panel the rust on my piggy. I blew through the practice metal several times until I had the settings right. Having clean metal is very important, having your ground contact is very important. I also noticed how easily thin sheetmetal warps when it gets too much heat. So I learned spot weld my joins every inch or so, let it cool, then go back over again, slowly filling in the join with spot welds until the patch was welded in. I also learned to avoid patching in large panels since they are more subject to warpage.. you'll lose your original dimensions. So its better to do smaller panels and/or clamp/brace the heck out of your section.

Fitting your new piece of metal takes a lot effort.. but its worth it to get those joints touching. I try to cut out my rust panels as square as possible so I can measure up my new piece as best as possible.

Once you think you've practiced enough, start working on a part of the pig that you wont see. For example i started on the rust that forms on the engine bay where it meets the front fender apron. Im glad i did because its all screwed up right now. I cut out a 2.5 foot by 4 inch section and patched in new metal, but instead of doing a bunch of spot welds, i ran a bead (BTW this was before i had practiced and learned what I now know, perhaps I was a little too ambitious and prolly had too many beer on board)

So now my dimensions are all off at the firewall end, the original metal is warped, and I have to go back and cut it out and fix it somehow. At least you wont be able to see it in the end, so i dont feel too bad. So please learn from my mistake (lol)

Also, there are cool things out there to help you fix your workpiece. Clecos are used in the aviation world to temporarily hold two pieces of overlapping metal together. It involves drilling a small hole through the 2 overlapping pieces of metal and inserting a cleco using a special tool to fix the metal together. THis can really help to prevent warping and shrinkage when you go to weld your piece. For but welds, intergrip welding clamps work well to hold your but joints. THey are currenly on ebay Intergrip Welding Panel Clamps Set of 4 on eBay.ca (item 370361252840 end time 13-Apr-10 12:54:32 EDT)
Automotive_Tools?hash=item563b403be8

I havent used them yet but the one thing im concerned about is that a 1/16-1/8 space is left between your join. How easy will that be to weld?

This is a great thread and I look forward to hearing other peoples experiences and advice on welding pigs. How fulfilling it would be to look back at your finished pig and say that you did all the bodywork on it?

Lee

 

[bustanutley]

Get a 220V blue machine with gas, follow the charts in the door, read about proper joints and stick metal together with your new hot glue gun. Its not rocket science, just takes practice.

 

[Austin40]

I started with oxy-acetylene torch welding. It's the most basic method for sticking one piece of steel to another. If you can learn to control a puddle with a torch, any other welding process ought to come pretty easy. When I upgraded to a MIG setup, it was a breeze to make the transition.

Something else to keep in mind, which I'm sure you've thought of but I'll say it anyway ... you'll need more than just the welder to fabricate steel. What I spent on my Lincoln MIG welder is nothing compared to what I have sunk in tools and equipment like angle grinders, chop saws, band saws, gas bottles, regulators, torches, clamps, magnets, gloves, helmets, etc, etc, etc... the list goes on and on. It's a fun hobby, but it's not a cheap one. I've got $1,000's invested in fabrication equipment and tools, and I'm only an amateur fabricator at best. I personally enjoy welding so it's worth it to me, but I'd be lying if I told you I saved any money doing it myself instead of hiring someone who already had the tools and equipment when I need something fabricated!

and good luck!

 

[Lake Rat]

I started with oxy-acetylene torch welding. It's the most basic method for sticking one piece of steel to another. If you can learn to control a puddle with a torch, any other welding process ought to come pretty easy. When I upgraded to a MIG setup, it was a breeze to make the transition.

Something else to keep in mind, which I'm sure you've thought of but I'll say it anyway ... you'll need more than just the welder to fabricate steel. What I spent on my Lincoln MIG welder is nothing compared to what I have sunk in tools and equipment like angle grinders, chop saws, band saws, gas bottles, regulators, torches, clamps, magnets, gloves, helmets, etc, etc, etc... the list goes on and on. It's a fun hobby, but it's not a cheap one. I've got $1,000's invested in fabrication equipment and tools, and I'm only an amateur fabricator at best. I personally enjoy welding so it's worth it to me, but I'd be lying if I told you I saved any money doing it myself instead of hiring someone who already had the tools and equipment when I need something fabricated!

and good luck!

x2 That's no joke, I've got that at least tied up in my equipment.

 

[madinal]

I took a community college course for wire welding but I also refer to this:

Handbook-Welding Ferrous Metals

 

[wadeclinton]

I'll chime in on the community college courses as well. Most are fairly cheap and offered at night too. If your in Coos Bay Oregon you could takes courses from my dad he can teach most anyone to weld.
Also save the cash and buy quality, Miller or Lincoln. I'd shy away from 110 models and anything you might get at harbor freight or similar stores. My 2 cents

 

[zags]

I started with oxy-acetylene torch welding. It's the most basic method for sticking one piece of steel to another. If you can learn to control a puddle with a torch, any other welding process ought to come pretty easy. When I upgraded to a MIG setup, it was a breeze to make the transition.

Something else to keep in mind, which I'm sure you've thought of but I'll say it anyway ... you'll need more than just the welder to fabricate steel. What I spent on my Lincoln MIG welder is nothing compared to what I have sunk in tools and equipment like angle grinders, chop saws, band saws, gas bottles, regulators, torches, clamps, magnets, gloves, helmets, etc, etc, etc... the list goes on and on. It's a fun hobby, but it's not a cheap one. I've got $1,000's invested in fabrication equipment and tools, and I'm only an amateur fabricator at best. I personally enjoy welding so it's worth it to me, but I'd be lying if I told you I saved any money doing it myself instead of hiring someone who already had the tools and equipment when I need something fabricated!

and good luck!

You are right on the money here. Mastering gas welding will give you the fundamental skills for all other types of welding. Buy a good book on welding, a set of Victor torches and tanks, some 1/8" and 1/4" steel and start practicing. Weld up some joints and try to break them apart. When the steel breaks before the weld, you know you are ready to move on to the next type of joint. Trying to learn MIG right off the bat requires you to lay beads much faster than gas, making it difficult for a beginner to get it right.

On equipment, dont waste time or money on a 110V MIG machine.
Buy a good 220V machine. Go with quality (Miller or Lincoln) and amperage over trick features and electronic controls.

 

[kulangot]

I took a class, it was great for me. I was lucky to have a great instructor. Other classes friends have taken did not work out so well for them either because the class was not tailored to the needs of an automotive hobbyist or the instructor himself was not a good weldor. Many classes are oriented towards stick and gas welding int the field or other aspects of professional welding that is not relevant to what you'd do at home in your garage.

In my case, I got a bunch of guys together from the local club and some other friends and got the instructor to put a class together just for our needs. Perhaps you could do this where you live.

Lincoln has a great welding school in Ohio and it's oriented around motorsports welding vs. welding in the trades. There is some great stuff on youtube. You can also get a very good student package from Miller Electric. To clarify, I have a close friend who is professional welder. He put together sprinkler systems and is certified. When the time came to do some rust repair on his truck, I had to help him because he was familiar with welding sheet metal!!! His training and professional experience did not address what was trying to do. So, if you take a class, make sure it meets your automotive welding needs vs that of a ship builder, steam fitter or iron worker.


I'd also strongly suggest that you buy a welder from the local welding shop vs. ebay as I have a learned a lot from my local supplier over the last 15 years. However, like anything else I've had friends in other cities say that their vendor is useless so they buy from ebay. Here in VA we have Arcet equipment and they are awesome.

My best tip would be that mig welding has a lot to do with how the weld sounds. The hand motions will also create a sound that is easy to hear as a good weld sound. Learn to adjust the machine to get a good sound of tearing silk and or frying bacon and then learn to move your hand in a way that it creates a rhythmic sound. If you push the movement too fast, it disrupts the sound. Too slow and the sound is too consistent.

Have fun with it, welding is a great hobby that compliments Land Cruisers. Like Cruisers a good welder costs good money. Cheap welders really make welding a pain in the arse.

My last point would be that if you not a competent and certified welder you should stay away from power steering, roll cages, seat mounts, motor mounts, recovery points and winch mounts. Learn on rust repair, mufflers, rock sliders and other basic projects. Some guy building a roll cage as his first project with a 110V welder makes me cringe. We've all got to learn somewhere but pick your projects with common sense.

 

[Pinion]

Go to a Vo-Tech school where the instructor is some bitter old dude still dirty and pissed off from welding all day. He's the one you want teaching you.

 

[GarageRat]

Depends on how patient you are. I grew up with my dad having built sprint car chassis professionally for a bit as well as building his own stuff and over the course of a month in high school I gathered all the spare steel scraps I could find, fired up the MIG machine and using a couple handbooks and years of memories of watching him weld I practiced to see what worked and what didn't as far as welding speed, wire sizing, gas flow, etc etc every night after my homework was done.

I have a buddy that went to WyoTech and he can weld circles around me since he took the fabrication classes there. Frankly I believe part of it has to do with the amount of time and practice you get, when I weld everyday I get in a groove where everything turns out great. If it's been a few weeks or if it's a complete change of material or thickness (going from bodywork to frame work for example) then I always take some time to get back in to form with scraps of similar stuff to get the machine tuned how I want it for a better start than going in and tuning as I go.

Another thing I did that seemed to help me was destructively testing my welds, if I remember correctly I would weld a foot long piece of box tubing to a similar thickness plate and clamp it in the biggest vise availabe then hit the other end as hard as I could with a mallet, BFH, etc until the weld broke or the plate gave up from the cyclic loading of hitting up and down. Try it with clean steel, then dirty steel. It gave me some confidence when my welds would hold up to some hellacious pounding and when the dirty steel that didn't have any prep work failed easily it cemented in my mind how crucial prep is.