I have the 6 spd with 4.88. It runs at 1750 rpm with 35" tires at 65 mph.
Yes, yes it is.
Regear 8-speed from 3.3 to 3.9?
- Thread starter jamgolf
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- Thread starter
- #22
Indeed. That seems to be the case. Regearing is not the objective but the means to the objective of 3X lockers.
Only logical solution I see is to go all out with a build including re-gear, locker, armor, big meats, rack...and Airstream. That's why we're the 21 step 200-series anonymous program.
21 step program - that sounds like very dangerous territory
The Airstream is something she keeps bringing up and I keep painting ugly worst-case scenarios to dissuade her.
Timing of this thread is perfect. I ran Red Cone and Radical Hill near Keystone CO last Wednesday and hit some problem spots that I wished I had lockers to push thru. These trails never bothered me in my previously owned JK. I managed thru relying on experience and crawl control without any other aid. I did have another vehicle in case I needed an assist. Thankfully, the LC powered thru. Needless to say, I sent a request over to Slee the next day for a quote to upgrade to air lockers and re-gear to 3.93s. Very expensive upgrade (~US$8000), money I could invest in a warn 12.5 Xeon winch, front (Rhino 4x4) and rear (Slee) bumpers and roof rack (frontrunner) in addition to my BP-51 lift, 34" ridge grapplers and bud built skids and sliders. I think a big portion of the cost was replacing the difs and installing pre 2016 carrier because ARB doesn't yet make lockers for 16+ dif. Soooo, I plan to wait on the locker upgrade and expect to redirect some of the money to other mods for now. Subscribed and look forward to hearing what direction you go.
- Thread starter
- #27
I was reflecting on my strong desire for owning a vehicle with triple locking differentials and could think of this moment when lockers saved me from what could have been a disaster...
I had just put 37" tires and King long-travel coilover suspension on a JK and went to test out my rig to an OHV park in Bridgeport, TX. There is a section on the far end of the park where some hardcore buggies make attempts at crawling up a seemingly ridiculous hill. With my family with me, I was neither good enough nor brave enough to attempt that but I decided to drive up a very steep hill close to the aforementioned boulder section. About two-thirds of the way up the wheel started spinning and JK started turning sideways and I was very afraid that JK might roll sideways and tumble downhill. Before this point in time, I had not really needed the lockers. I turned on the front and rear locker and JK started to correct its course and got up without any trouble. Obviously I should've had the lockers ON from the start but I did not think I needed them - until I did.
That was a scary moment for me and it could have turned out in harm to my kids and wife and serious damage to the the vehicle. And in that moment lockers saved my a$$. So I am now a huge fan of the lockers.
If you search for Radical Hill trail on youtube the trail mentioned ^ above by @Ozon8r you'll notice a couple of videos about damaged Jeep recovery. It was enough to make @Ozon8r make an inquiry about the cost of lockers. Personally, I would not have the kahunas to go up Radical Hill without lockers, but I am sure others have done it with stock 4x4s.
Just a matter of risk management and peace of mind I guess.
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“Risk management and peace of mind.” Brings to mind some discussions here on MUD about the need (or waste of money) for an extended warranty. You don’t need it until something happens where having it is good.
Thanks for your latest post, jamgolf. Although that experience was with another vehicle, it helps illustrate that maybe an eight grand upgrade to “protect” an eighty grand vehicle isn’t so “expensive” after all.
Thanks for your latest post, jamgolf. Although that experience was with another vehicle, it helps illustrate that maybe an eight grand upgrade to “protect” an eighty grand vehicle isn’t so “expensive” after all.
- Thread starter
- #30
OEM 3.9
How is it any different than the prior years? My understanding is that its exactly the same system but with different speeds.
- Thread starter
- #32
Since lockers/gears are scheduled for October 21st, it turns out that's how it's unfolding ... I've got the BP51, 34" Nittos, sliders, and skid plates installed and have hit a few trails and gone on some road trips. I think it's a very good way to compare the difference in performance before and after, and to get a sense of what is a need vs want.
So far quite honestly I have not been on a trail that may even require lockers so I have not felt the "need". I am planning to hit a couple of RED trails in the next 2-3 weeks so I'll be able to gauge the "need" for lockers.
Its personal preference, but I definitely feel the vehicle needs regearing. In high altitude mountain driving especially switchbacks the vehicle has to be shifted down to at least 2nd and sometimes even 1st gear. Leaving it in auto is not an option. It does not downshift and runs out of steam.
Whether I think the lockers are needed is yet to be determined (quite possibly not needed) but for my personal preference, gearing is most definitely needed. Again in my opinion and based on my preference
YMMV.
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Try turning on ECT - I find it keeps the motor from lugging and keeps the rig always in the power band.
I did gears (3.3->3.9) and lockers for a few reasons:
1. Heavy rig - armor, lift, 34's, winch, drawers full o junk, fridge, family
2. Driving offroad, in the rockies (above treeline), towing a heavy trailer
3. Not uncommon to be crossed-up & lifting tires while towing the trailer
This is many edge cases, all at the same time.
Any of them individually or in pairs or sets, the 200 is plenty capable of handling with neither lockers nor re-gearing.
Gears make a notable difference at highway speeds (slightly more RPM = slightly more power; gearing/shifts seem "just right"; engine braking works a treat).
I only notice the gearing difference offroad when engine braking... the 5.7 has ample power regardless of gear change.
MTS is phenomenally capable. I only use lockers in the most extreme circumstances... MTS could probably get me through, but the lockers give me more control and minimize risk of tearing things up or breaking bits.
My recommendation: If you're going to do one, do both. I've done lockers without gears, and seen gears without lockers - they're like chocolate and peanut butter: better together!
I did gears (3.3->3.9) and lockers for a few reasons:
1. Heavy rig - armor, lift, 34's, winch, drawers full o junk, fridge, family
2. Driving offroad, in the rockies (above treeline), towing a heavy trailer
3. Not uncommon to be crossed-up & lifting tires while towing the trailer
This is many edge cases, all at the same time.
Any of them individually or in pairs or sets, the 200 is plenty capable of handling with neither lockers nor re-gearing.
Gears make a notable difference at highway speeds (slightly more RPM = slightly more power; gearing/shifts seem "just right"; engine braking works a treat).
I only notice the gearing difference offroad when engine braking... the 5.7 has ample power regardless of gear change.
MTS is phenomenally capable. I only use lockers in the most extreme circumstances... MTS could probably get me through, but the lockers give me more control and minimize risk of tearing things up or breaking bits.
My recommendation: If you're going to do one, do both. I've done lockers without gears, and seen gears without lockers - they're like chocolate and peanut butter: better together!
- Thread starter
- #34
Thanks for your input based on first hand experience with 3.3 -> 3.9. Very much appreciated!
That's good to hear. Off-the-line performance and highway performance are certainly an important consideration for me.
I was hoping that crawl ratio going from ~41 to ~48 would be noticeable off-road and I am glad to hear that you feel that way.
That is exactly what I am looking for i.e. minimize risk to self or to the vehicle.
Yes, indeed. I am getting both front+rear lockers+gears.
Last but not least ... chocolate and peanut butter ... you say
I had no idea. I'll have to give that a try
That's good to hear. Off-the-line performance and highway performance are certainly an important consideration for me.
I was hoping that crawl ratio going from ~41 to ~48 would be noticeable off-road and I am glad to hear that you feel that way.
That is exactly what I am looking for i.e. minimize risk to self or to the vehicle.
Yes, indeed. I am getting both front+rear lockers+gears.
Last but not least ... chocolate and peanut butter ... you say
I had no idea. I'll have to give that a try
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I am on a 2019 8 spd rig. I started out at 4.88's with 34" tires. It was ridiculous on the highway. 10mpg. I changed down to the 4.30's and it is much better; around 15mpg highway now. I find it is quite good towing. My typical load is an Aluma 16' aluminum tandem axle trailer. I normally haul a polaris rzr turbo s and two ATV's. It would be right on 6000lbs and my tongue weight is around 500lbs if I put the atv's on the front of the trailer to bring up tongue weight. The LC tows this load quite well with the 4.30's in the moutains. I can get over Wolf Creek Pass easily. I don't find that it shifts excessively between 7-8.
I don't know if you tow ever and what your setup will be - but I have also contemplated the 3.90. I think my real-world feedback would suggest that my truck would struggle more towing with the 3.90's and would constantly hunt between 7-8. Unladen I think the 3.90 would be really nice with a taller tire and get back closer to stated mileage.
I cannot comment on the 3.90's driveability as I have only considered it. Living in the mountains and towing weight, I feel the 4.30's is a good compromise.
Now what WOULD be perfect is 3.90's, 35's and a supercharger for the altitude
- Chris.
I don't know if you tow ever and what your setup will be - but I have also contemplated the 3.90. I think my real-world feedback would suggest that my truck would struggle more towing with the 3.90's and would constantly hunt between 7-8. Unladen I think the 3.90 would be really nice with a taller tire and get back closer to stated mileage.
I cannot comment on the 3.90's driveability as I have only considered it. Living in the mountains and towing weight, I feel the 4.30's is a good compromise.
Now what WOULD be perfect is 3.90's, 35's and a supercharger for the altitude
- Chris.
Side bar - since you are taking your truck to Slee - I presume you are doing their sliders?
Also - I would highly recommend their ARB dual compressor bracket setup. You can't beat it. I assume they will be doing that to run air for your lockers but wanted to plug them as their parts are top notch. I have the ARB setup on my rig from Slee and really love it. I am contemplating running a Linx in my rig to control it all.
- Chris.
Also - I would highly recommend their ARB dual compressor bracket setup. You can't beat it. I assume they will be doing that to run air for your lockers but wanted to plug them as their parts are top notch. I have the ARB setup on my rig from Slee and really love it. I am contemplating running a Linx in my rig to control it all.
- Chris.
- Thread starter
- #37
@Hams202 thanks for your feedback. I appreciate it.
I can imagine an 8-speed with 4.88s would be too much. I don't see heavy towing in the near future, so 3.9 is probably the right ratio.
And yes, I will be getting the ARB dual air compressor and bracket setup from Slee, so its good to know that you are satisfied.
I can imagine an 8-speed with 4.88s would be too much. I don't see heavy towing in the near future, so 3.9 is probably the right ratio.
And yes, I will be getting the ARB dual air compressor and bracket setup from Slee, so its good to know that you are satisfied.
4.88’s were horrid. I hated the vehicle. It ruined what makes the LC so balanced and special. The 4.30’s were a big improvement.
if you aren’t towing bigger weight the 3.90’s will likely be a great balance.
- Thread starter
- #39
Still 3 weeks away from lockers but in the meantime, I've hit a couple of moderately harder trails such as Kingston Peak near Idaho Springs, Mount Antero near Buena Vista, and Saints John near Keystone. This has given me an opportunity to evaluate the vehicle's capabilities prior to getting lockers.
Mt Antero: Did not experience any traction issues until I reached the switchbacks where some snow from September 8th was still present. I was able to go through a few switchbacks but then got stuck in a precarious position with MTS trying to work but not being successful. I thought the combination of Nitto Exo grapplers tires (supposedly good in snow) and MTS would be enough but not so. Had to reverse back about 50 yards and that was not fun. Lockers would have definitely helped there. Without snow there I would not have experienced any issues going all the way to 13800ft.
Kingston Peak: I did this from the direction of Alice to Black Hawk and I did not experience any traction problems. However, there was still some snow there, and had I been driving in the opposite direction, I would most certainly experience tracking issues in this section. I think lockers would be very helpful here even without snow. Some sections before and after this point were very steep with gnarly deep ruts and snow made it worse.
Saints John: On this trail, I experienced the most amount of wheel slippage and MTS was working. It got me up without drama but it was working a lot. It's not only steep and rocky but also loose dirt. I did not have the guts to go to Radical Hill. I took a break at this spot. It does not represent the trail at all I was glad there was no snow left on this trail, otherwise it would've been a beast and I seriously doubt MTS would take me through it.
So the vehicle is very very capable even without lockers but I am looking forward to getting lockers.
Mt Antero: Did not experience any traction issues until I reached the switchbacks where some snow from September 8th was still present. I was able to go through a few switchbacks but then got stuck in a precarious position with MTS trying to work but not being successful. I thought the combination of Nitto Exo grapplers tires (supposedly good in snow) and MTS would be enough but not so. Had to reverse back about 50 yards and that was not fun. Lockers would have definitely helped there. Without snow there I would not have experienced any issues going all the way to 13800ft.
Kingston Peak: I did this from the direction of Alice to Black Hawk and I did not experience any traction problems. However, there was still some snow there, and had I been driving in the opposite direction, I would most certainly experience tracking issues in this section. I think lockers would be very helpful here even without snow. Some sections before and after this point were very steep with gnarly deep ruts and snow made it worse.
Saints John: On this trail, I experienced the most amount of wheel slippage and MTS was working. It got me up without drama but it was working a lot. It's not only steep and rocky but also loose dirt. I did not have the guts to go to Radical Hill. I took a break at this spot. It does not represent the trail at all
I was glad there was no snow left on this trail, otherwise it would've been a beast and I seriously doubt MTS would take me through it.
So the vehicle is very very capable even without lockers but I am looking forward to getting lockers.
Still 3 weeks away from lockers but in the meantime, I've hit a couple of moderately harder trails such as Kingston Peak near Idaho Springs, Mount Antero near Buena Vista, and Saints John near Keystone. This has given me an opportunity to evaluate the vehicle's capabilities prior to getting lockers.
Mt Antero: Did not experience any traction issues until I reached the switchbacks where some snow from September 8th was still present. I was able to go through a few switchbacks but then got stuck in a precarious position with MTS trying to work but not being successful. I thought the combination of Nitto Exo grapplers tires (supposedly good in snow) and MTS would be enough but not so. Had to reverse back about 50 yards and that was not fun. Lockers would have definitely helped there. Without snow there I would not have experienced any issues going all the way to 13800ft.
Kingston Peak: I did this from the direction of Alice to Black Hawk and I did not experience any traction problems. However, there was still some snow there, and had I been driving in the opposite direction, I would most certainly experience tracking issues in this section. I think lockers would be very helpful here even without snow. Some sections before and after this point were very steep with gnarly deep ruts and snow made it worse.
Saints John: On this trail, I experienced the most amount of wheel slippage and MTS was working. It got me up without drama but it was working a lot. It's not only steep and rocky but also loose dirt. I did not have the guts to go to Radical Hill. I took a break at this spot. It does not represent the trail at all
So the vehicle is very very capable even without lockers but I am looking forward to getting lockers.
Nice! Looks like a good time. What were you aired down on the various trails? It's hard to tell from the angles, but it doesn't seem like your sidewalls are bulging out very much. Were you using CRAWL or just MTS and driving through?
