Regear 8-speed from 3.3 to 3.9?

[jamgolf]

Nice! Looks like a good time. What were you aired down on the various trails? It's hard to tell from the angles, but it doesn't seem like your sidewalls are bulging out very much. Were you using CRAWL or just MTS and driving through?

Good eye I was not aired down at all since I dont have a compressor yet. But should have it soon. Just to make the rocky trails a bit more comfortable and also better traction.

I was in 4Low with center diff locked and MTS in either Rock or Rock and Dirt. No CRAWL.

 

[Hants]

Airing down gives a significant traction bump. Like 2X or more.

I have driven miles at 45 aired down to get to a gas station with air. Also, cheap compressors work... Slowly.

Be very careful with lockers on even slight side hills... MTS is generally much safer in this respect.

 

[jamgolf]

Totally agree with the virtues of airing down. I had a decent Viair compressor that I gave away when I was moving to Denver. Now just waiting to get ARB dual unit for lockers so going about without airing down in the mean time. On Saints John trail, I would certainly have benefited if aired down. Other two trails it would’ve made it a bit more comfortable, because traction was not much of an issue there.

i am genuinely curious about your statement regarding MTS being safer in side hill situations, how so? If I may ask.

 

[Hants]

With lockers on a sidehill, you will slide downhill (sideways) when your tires spin.

With MTS it may still happen but will be much less pronounced.

Note that I'm warning about snow traverses, not rock or gravel.

It is all about near zero friction and gravity.

 

[jamgolf]

^ Thanks. I will definitely keep this in mind.

 

[linuxgod]

I have driven miles at 45 aired down to get to a gas station with air. Also, cheap compressors work... Slowly.

I bought one of these for about $90 a couple years ago. It's as fast as the ARB and it's portable. Downside is it's not mountable under the hood so it takes up trunk space, and it's not 100% duty cycle so while I can fill my tires from 18 to 44 psi I've found it will thermal shutdown if I try to then fill someone elses too.

Q Industries MV89G 12 Volt Dual Air Compressor

The MV-89G Dual Air Compressor is ideal for off-road vehicles with 35 inch or larger tires. It can inflate 50% faster than our MV-50, obtaining its power directly from the battery using the alligator clips provided. This unit is great for owners who have a truck, jeep, or vehicle with large tires.

www.quadratec.com

 

[jamgolf]

Only one more day till I drop off my vehicle for regearing and lockers ... very excited.

In the meanwhile some observations about the vehicle after a trip to a nearby trail yesterday.

Democrat Mountain
OnX Difficulty: Difficult Technical Rating: 5/10
Charles Wells Book Rating: RED

4Low, Center Diff locked, MTS in Rock, not aired down
Land Cruiser made easy work of this trail. Approaching a couple of points I felt that it might have some difficulty, but not at all. Land Cruiser went over like it was nothing. The trail is quite rocky and narrow with several off-camber sections but sticking to "as slow as possible, as fast as necessary" Land Rover mantra, I had no trouble whatsoever. On the way down, I did feel a better (higher) crawl ratio would make the descent more controlled, so I am looking forward to how the ~49:1 crawl ratio with 3.9 gears will compare to the ~42:1 crawl ratio with 3.3 gears. Either way, this sort of trail, which by the way is not even as difficult as Bill Moore Lake trail or Mount Antero, is no challenge for the 200. No lockers required for this trail.

I am impressed with the KDSS and the articulation it offers. I am impressed with MTS. It does a great job. But I am personally not a fan of Crawl for ascent or descent. It's just too noisy/jerky and I'd rather control/drive the vehicle myself. If I ever get stuck in the sand, I would most certainly use Crawl. A few videos I've watched on youtube indicate it is fantastic in that scenario.

I am truly amazed by the capability bandwidth/breadth of this vehicle. It went up a trail that many people would freak out just by looking at, with such ease that it just seems a bit ridiculous to be honest. And when I got back on the pavement it felt so well sorted (with BP51s) that I quite enjoyed the drive back home, listening to some Jazz. There are certainly more capable off-road vehicles and there are certainly more comfortable on-road vehicles. But I don't think there is any vehicle that comes close when considering both sides of the spectrum.

I loved my 10-year ownership of Land Rover LR4 but after 3.5 months of ownership, Land Cruiser has made me get over the LR4. I thought I would miss it but no I don't miss it. I am so over it.

 

[jamgolf]

Got my vehicle back yesterday afternoon and currently doing the 500 mile break in procedure i.e. driving gently for 15-20 miles and then letting it cool off for 30 minutes. A couple of initial impressions:

• Gearing feels just right. Accelerating from stationary I feel there is low end torque to get it moving without revving the engine.
• Going up hill feels it’s in the right gear and I no longer need to put it in S and down shift to be in the right gear.
• Going down hill also feels controlled, just let off the accelerator and it slows its self down without the need to apply brakes too much or the need to down shift a couple of gears manually, to keep it from becoming a run away train. Again the gearing feels just right.
• Strangely, it appears that fuel economy has improved i.e. better mpgs. This could be my imagination or perhaps due the fact that I am driving very gently, so time will tell how fuel economy is really affected. But at the moment it feels like the Eco light stays ON a lot, even when driving up hill

Off-road impressions in terms of gearing and lockers will have to wait till break-in is complete but I’m quite satisfied with improvements in on-road manners and drivability.

 

[Mendocino]

I have used my 2016 200 *a lot* in the field, including the Morrison Jeep Trail and lots of other stuff in Utah and Colorado. MTS works great, right until you would be better served by a lockers or lockers. I would lock my 200, but am thinking I will just add a triple locked expedition style 80 to our fleet of Land Cruisers. YMMV. @jamgolf I look forward to hearing your off road impressions of the gear and lockers with aired down tires.

 

[linuxgod]

Got my vehicle back yesterday afternoon and currently doing the 500 mile break in procedure i.e. driving gently for 15-20 miles and then letting it cool off for 30 minutes. A couple of initial impressions:

• Gearing feels just right. Accelerating from stationary I feel there is torque to get it moving without revving the engine.
• Going up hill feels it’s in the right gear and I no longer need to put it in S and down shift to be in the right gear.
• Going down hill also feels controlled, just let off the accelerator and it slows its self down without the need to apply brakes too much or the need to down shift a couple of gears manually, to keep it from becoming a run away train. Again the gearing feels just right.
• Strangely, it appears that fuel economy has improved i.e. better mpgs. This could be my imagination or perhaps due the fact that I am driving very gently, so time will tell how fuel economy is really affected. But at the moment it feels like the Eco light stays ON a lot, even when driving up hill

Off-road impressions in terms of gearing and lockers will have to wait till break-in is complete but I’m quite satisfied with improvements in on-road manners and drivability.

Light driving habits probab;y help your mileage right now. I'll be curious to see if it improves overall once you're broken in. Around town you may well get better mileage though since shorter gearing means less load on the engine to get you moving from a stop.

I disabled the ECO light with techstream because it annoyed me turning on and off. My wife would use ECO mode, I'd use PWR mode. I wish I could disable the ECT PWR light as well since I always run with it on anyway.

 

[jamgolf]

• Got the fluids changed after the 500 mile break-in period. Will do another gear fluid change after 3-4 thousand miles.
• My initial observation of the improved fuel economy was false hope. Fuel economy has definitely not improved it probably has gone down a bit.
• Onroad and on highway drivability has improved significantly and is now more to my liking (this is obviously subjective and my personal opinion and preference). The vehicle handles mountain passes as it should.
• Went to Switzerland Trail and Switzerland Trail North. Aired down to 22 psi. Both trails felt very easy. I am not sure why Switzerland Trail North is rated "red" in the Charles Wells book. Anyhow, I used the lockers in a couple of spots just for the heck of it (there was no need for lockers) and the vehicle handled it like I was parking it at the mall. Easy peasy.
• Will try to hit a different trail and report back on lockers vs no-lockers.

 

[jamgolf]

It's been a few months since I re-geared to 3.9 and got the front/rear lockers. I just wanted to update the thread with my feedback. After many many highway miles, driving over mountain passes, and quite a few off-road trails, I am absolutely and totally satisfied with my decision. Re-gearing has given the vehicle the low-end torque and it just feels to be in the sweet spot of power band without being over-geared. And the lockers are also absolutely what I expected and hoped for. They make off-roading drama-free and help reduce my wife's anxiety.

Land Cruiser is an exceptionally capable vehicle just in stock form, but lockers just provide the extra peace of mind, which is well worth it to me. If I had to do it again I would absolutely make the same decision again, without hesitation. And the 34" Nitto Exo Grapplers are doing a fine job as well.

 

[Hants]

It's been a few months since I re-geared to 3.9 and got the front/rear lockers. I just wanted to update the thread with my feedback. After many many highway miles, driving over mountain passes, and quite a few off-road trails, I am absolutely and totally satisfied with my decision. Re-gearing has given the vehicle the low-end torque and it just feels to be in the sweet spot of power band without being over-geared. And the lockers are also absolutely what I expected and hoped for. They make off-roading drama-free and help reduce my wife's anxiety.

Land Cruiser is an exceptionally capable vehicle just in stock form, but lockers just provide the extra peace of mind, which is well worth it to me. If I had to do it again I would absolutely make the same decision again, without hesitation. And the 34" Nitto Exo Grapplers are doing a fine job as well.

^This!

 

[NoClue]

Great thread! I have a 16' and am planning to regear with factory 4.30s and harrops. I'm currently on 34s.

 

[OnGrid200]

Very glad I have found this thread. I have been debating this upgrade for 4+ years on my 2016. I am currently on 34" Nitto's with all of the things on my LC. Front/Rear bumper, winch, skids, sliders, drawers, fridge, etc. You get the picture. No longer a RTT though at least. The 5.7 "handles" it okay but it has left me wanting more.

Things that I am going to change:
-Get rid of drawers and roof rack.
-35x11.5R17 Falken Wildpeak AT4 tires that are a true 35"
-regear to OEM 3.90s or OEM 4.30s with e-lockers

We are moving soon from CO to San Diego this summer, so altitude will be less of an issue 90%+ of the time. I will be towing an "off road" camping trailer occasionally that's about 4000 lbs.

I have run all of the CRAWLpedia numbers and can't make up my mind. I am leaning towards 3.90s but John's 4x4 thinks I will be happier with 4.30s. They think the extra rotational weight of the tires and occasional towing will make the off roading and towing good and the daily driving acceptable. I really wish OEM 4.10s were available to help make this choice easier.

I am sure some of you have moved on from your LC, but wondering if anyone could chime in.
-Hams202, do you ever feel over geared? What are your thoughts?
-Jamgolf, has your use changed? Do you tow at all? Still happy with the 3.90s?
-Hants, are you still happy with the 3.90s?

 

[TeCKis300]

Very glad I have found this thread. I have been debating this upgrade for 4+ years on my 2016. I am currently on 34" Nitto's with all of the things on my LC. Front/Rear bumper, winch, skids, sliders, drawers, fridge, etc. You get the picture. No longer a RTT though at least. The 5.7 "handles" it okay but it has left me wanting more.

Things that I am going to change:
-Get rid of drawers and roof rack.
-35x11.5R17 Falken Wildpeak AT4 tires that are a true 35"
-regear to OEM 3.90s or OEM 4.30s with e-lockers

We are moving soon from CO to San Diego this summer, so altitude will be less of an issue 90%+ of the time. I will be towing an "off road" camping trailer occasionally that's about 4000 lbs.

I have run all of the CRAWLpedia numbers and can't make up my mind. I am leaning towards 3.90s but John's 4x4 thinks I will be happier with 4.30s. They think the extra rotational weight of the tires and occasional towing will make the off roading and towing good and the daily driving acceptable. I really wish OEM 4.10s were available to help make this choice easier.

I am sure some of you have moved on from your LC, but wondering if anyone could chime in.
-Hams202, do you ever feel over geared? What are your thoughts?
-Jamgolf, has your use changed? Do you tow at all? Still happy with the 3.90s?
-Hants, are you still happy with the 3.90s?

With the 8-speed, you don't want the 4.3. Too much gear is just as bad as too little gear. 3.9s are what you want.

What's important to understand is overall gearing. It's not just about the diff ratio. The 8-speed has so much internal gearing already that even with 3.9s and 37s, you'll have more gearing than ideal. Let alone 35s.

I'm just another guy with an opinion on the internet, but I can tell you that your 4x4 shop is giving you bad advice.

This thread might help better understand just how much more gearing 3.9s or 4.3s are.

Definitive 200-series Gearing Reference

EDIT: Expanding tables for 8-speed and 40s So I had a little time this morning to put together a chart combining transmission gearing of 6-speed vs 8-speed, diff ratios, and tire sizing into an overall gearing reference. Hoping this will be useful for those trying to understand how their...

forum.ih8mud.com

 

[OnGrid200]

With the 8-speed, you don't want the 4.3. Too much gear is just as bad as too little gear. 3.9s are what you want.

What's important to understand is overall gearing. It's not just about the diff ratio. The 8-speed has so much internal gearing already that even with 3.9s and 37s, you'll have more gearing than ideal. Let alone 35s.

I'm just another guy with an opinion on the internet, but I can tell you that your 4x4 shop is giving you bad advice.

This thread might help better understand just how much more gearing 3.9s or 4.3s are.

Definitive 200-series Gearing Reference

EDIT: Expanding tables for 8-speed and 40s So I had a little time this morning to put together a chart combining transmission gearing of 6-speed vs 8-speed, diff ratios, and tire sizing into an overall gearing reference. Hoping this will be useful for those trying to understand how their...

forum.ih8mud.com

TeCKis300 your opinion is always appreciated!

I am just having a hard time telling the 4x4 shop that I am not on board with they're opinion. Slee recommended 3.90s as well and I wanted to go through Slee but they will not touch e-lockers.

Thanks

 

[grinchy]

You can also get OEM 3.9s from a gen 1 or gen 2.

 

[TeCKis300]

TeCKis300 your opinion is always appreciated!

I am just having a hard time telling the 4x4 shop that I am not on board with they're opinion. Slee recommended 3.90s as well and I wanted to go through Slee but they will not touch e-lockers.

Thanks

Copy. Your shop is probably use to dealing with 99% of rigs where 4.3s or more would be the answer. Every 4 or 6 banger Taco, 4R, needs lots more gearing. The torque rich 6-speed 200-series will want 4.3s.

The 8-speed 200-series is a rare bird in the Toyota 4x4 universe that has great low gearing and spread in a more modern transmission.

I'd definitely take Slee's recommendation here. They've probably setup more 200-series cruisers than anyone else.

 

[TCM]

I have run all of the CRAWLpedia numbers and can't make up my mind. I am leaning towards 3.90s but John's 4x4 thinks I will be happier with 4.30s. They think the extra rotational weight of the tires and occasional towing will make the off roading and towing good and the daily driving acceptable. I really wish OEM 4.10s were available to help make this choice easier.

I live in Boulder and have mulitple modified 4x4s. I would not trust any recommendation from John's 4x4 regarding an LC 200. They are primarily a Jeep shop and make recommendations through that lens. And even if they agree to do the 3.9 gears they quality of the work might be suspect given their lack of experience with the platform. Slee is one of the premier LC 200 shops in the country, probably only rivaled by Land Cruiser Outfitters in Salt Lake. Slee recommends air lockers for a reason and they would set up the gears and lockers perfectly. I totally recommend making use of their services.