Redline Water Wetter

[cary]

As others have said, you should not change to a cooler thermstat. There is one important reason that people have not mentioned. The emisions equiptment is designed to work with a certain operating tempurature. Using a cooler thermostat can cause the engine to run lean as the sensors will believe the engine is not at operating tempurature. This will lead to shorter cat converter life, plugged 02 sensors and a host of of other problems.

As many have said, a lower temp thermostat will not prevent overheating, only give you an extra minute or so before your overheat. If you are having trouble with overheating you should be looking at bringing the cooling capacity back up to stock, or as others have said, using a larger radiator with greater capacity. Remember, after 10 years, the stock cooling system has lost efficiency.

Cary

 

[landtank]

Didn't make myself clear.

Putting in a lower rated Thermistat will make the engine run cooler IF the cooling system can remove the heat fast enough. So at idle and light duty the engine will run colder. What most people seem to think, and this was the point I attempted to make, is that if the engine is running hot a lower temp T-stat will make a difference. It won't, if you are running hot then you are overwhelming the cooling system and reguardless of how soon you start to circulate the coolant from startup you will still overwhelm it eventually and run hot.

Personally I think that TRD advises the use of a cooler T-stat so when the SC kicks in and generates a spike in the heat production of the engine, there is a little buffer in the engine/coolant temp to help minimize it's effect. Of course long stretches of towing on hills might begin to overwhelm the system and overcome the buffer and create a hot condition anyway.

Sorry about the confusion

 

[Landpimp]

Ah.........but if a lower rated t-stat will not make it run cooler................then how can it have any negitive effect on the emissions stuff?

I want to make myself clear. if your overheating FIX whats wrong, putting a lower rated t-stat in isn't the cure. So we all agree on this.

But as in my case my whole cooling system is new(this is on a fj60) and it doesn't run hot at all, but I want it to run cooler(plus I had to see if the 180 would make a difference).....then at least in my case a lower rated t-stat DID drop the temps. I will gladly show anyone, I will put the 192 in, then the 180.......its plain as day

Emission stuff, now I don't know about the 93+ but on my older Cruisers that have a TON of emission stuff, the only sensors that are effected by temp both kick in pretty low, 88 and 100 deg if I recall(these are the BVSV on the t-stat housing) I can't imagine that any of the emission stuff even on a 80 series would know the difference between 180 and 190 deg.......I might be wrong as I haven't read much about it but this is the case with my 82 fj40's, 86 fj60 and 3fe's

But I think we ALL agree.........keep the cooling system in good condition, fix whats wrong, don't try to mask it with something.......be it water weter or a lower t-stat or electic fans or what ever else you can think of. Trust me I keep my junk in VERY good shape and fix whats wrong ASAP. Knock on wood I have never lost a motor or a head gasket......and I plan on keeping it that way.

John H

[quote author=cary link=board=2;threadid=12806;start=msg118525#msg118525 date=1078938256]
As others have said, you should not change to a cooler thermstat. There is one important reason that people have not mentioned. The emisions equiptment is designed to work with a certain operating tempurature. Using a cooler thermostat can cause the engine to run lean as the sensors will believe the engine is not at operating tempurature. This will lead to shorter cat converter life, plugged 02 sensors and a host of of other problems.

As many have said, a lower temp thermostat will not prevent overheating, only give you an extra minute or so before your overheat. If you are having trouble with overheating you should be looking at bringing the cooling capacity back up to stock, or as others have said, using a larger radiator with greater capacity. Remember, after 10 years, the stock cooling system has lost efficiency.

Cary
[/quote]

 

[landtank]

The 2 bvsvs are for choke pull off and allowing spark advance which is a relationship to cold at startup and not hot after warmed up.


Just thought I'd throw that in since I don't get to comment on my 60 knowledge here very often

 

[Photoman]

Pimp,

I want to make myself clear. if your overheating FIX whats wrong, putting a lower rated t-stat in isn't the cure. So we all agree on this.

But I think we ALL agree.........keep the cooling system in good condition, fix whats wrong, don't try to mask it with something.......be it water weter or a lower t-stat or electic fans or what ever else you can think of. Trust me I keep my junk in VERY good shape and fix whats wrong ASAP. Knock on wood I have never lost a motor or a head gasket......and I plan on keeping it that way.

Sometimes it's not that simple. Here's the deal in my case. It's heavy as H*ll. With the big rack on top it's as aerodynamic as a lead brick. Since I'm not going to reduce the weight, change the motor, remove the SC, or take the rack off, how then do I FIX the problem? I can't. So, all I can do is try different setups in the hope that in sum total it will be tolerable. And guess what, I'm having fun doing it whether it works completely or not.
I worked in collaboration with a friend at TRD trying to come up with a solution for, in my case weight, and for others towing. To not bore everyone else with my old details, just let it be said that I had a NEW custom rad made by a racing company in Indianapolis, and NEW everything else. Didn't work.
I have followed what you said about having your cruiser heavily loaded and pulled heavy loads with no problems. For some of us with or without a SC it's not working. Most of us are not going to pull the SC because of the problem but rather try some peripheral changes to try to help with what's happening.
If you know how to FIX the problem for a FJZ80 then the people at TRD, and many others, myself included, are all ears.

Bill

 

[Landpimp]

exactly(BVSV, I get all them lettersl mixed up) those are the only sensors that are effect by engine tempature AFAIK........and I just replaced both of them(on fj40), true they are not emmisions but do effect runibiltiy(is dat a word

as god awfull as the late 2f emission crap looks its actaully pretty easy to figure out with the FSM, just for chits and grins I tested all the emission stuff on my 2f one day.......off all the crap those were the only problems found and I learned ALOT.......which is why I did it.

[quote author=landtank link=board=2;threadid=12806;start=msg118933#msg118933 date=1078967242]
The 2 bvsvs are for choke pull off and allowing spark advance which is a relationship to cold at startup and not hot after warmed up.


Just thought I'd throw that in since I don't get to comment on my 60 knowledge here very often
[/quote]

 

[hoser]

[quote author=Photoman link=board=2;threadid=12806;start=msg118963#msg118963 date=1078970337]
So, all I can do is try different setups in the hope that in sum total it will be tolerable.
[/quote]

Photoman, so your well maintained cooling system isn't providing the cooling you need. Let me offer some suggestions:

1) High performance electric fan(s) with a PROPER shroud. Electric fans can have better flow than the stock unit. This will also take some load off your engine which translates to less load on your engine, more power, and better fuel efficiency.

2) High Flow water pump. I do not know who manufactures such for our Toyotas but chevy's have them.
HF water pumps sometimes don't have a water bypass. Therefore you might need to modify the thermostat (eek!) by drilling maybe three 3/16" holes so that water can pass through. FYI, your LC will take a little longer to warm up.

3) Large oil cooler. The job of oil is not just to lubricate but also to draw heat away from the engine parts. A large oil cooler will help.

 

[cruiserdan]

He had two electric fans in a custom fitted PROPER shroud on it.

Something else is up. I have been pondering this for months.

 

[Beowulf]

hoser,

If you'd followed photoman's posts you would know he's putting an oil cooler inside the left front fender. His truck is down for refitting now so he hasn't got results from this mod. Search the recent archives for the pics. It's neat and super trick.

-B-

 

[hoser]

Okay, I just read some of his old posts. I found the problem. His LC is 3,000 lbs overweight.

 

[hoser]

Evans Cooling System

There is another product called "Evans Cooling" that I have heard good things about. It is not an additive. It is non-water based. Supposedly, it can protect against boiling up to 370 degrees and gives freeze protection to minus 80 degrees. It is pretty expensive stuff but never needs to be changed. Has been out for several years now.

http://www.evanscooling.com/main25.htm

 

[Photoman]

Thanks for the help and I apologize to Landpimp for my frustrations.

Bill

 

[Landpimp]

No need to apologize. When I mentioned fixing what was wrong......I wasn't talking about your 80, but just cooling systems in general. But I do have to think(and it sounds like you somewhat agree) that the combo of the SC and the 3000lbs of stuff are the problem.........and your trying to figure something out so you can leave the SC and all the stuff.........I UNDERSTAND this. Do you think that if the SC wasn't on you would have overheating problems?

How hot does it get BTW?

But if everything in your cooling system is in good shape, why not try a lower temp t-stat.......it might just help a little bit. (but maybe you already have)

I have an idea......you can swap a 3fe in it

[quote author=Photoman link=board=2;threadid=12806;start=msg119219#msg119219 date=1079001627]
Thanks for the help and I apologize to Landpimp for my frustrations.

Bill
[/quote]

 

[Photoman]

It never overheated without the SC, but I had to run it so hard by the time I crossed the country and got to CA, the block cracked at 29k miles. Toyota installed a new one in Bellingham, WA.

How hot does it get BTW?

Really it's not that bad. It's just one of those things that I have to watch it.

Yes, I already run the TRD 160 degree thermostat that my friend gave me.

I have an idea......you can swap a 3fe in it

I just sold an 88 FJ62 about a month ago and, no offense, I think I could walk faster than that thing could go.

Bill

 

[RavenTai]

could I get you guys to read this and give your reaction? got me nervous

http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=37;t=000084

 

[cary]

I've been using it for ten years with no problems. It almost sounds like the tranny stories, changed the fluid and it started slipping, but when pressed they admit that the tranny was already slipping. Water pumps do fail, poorly maintained cooling systems plug up.

Cary

 

[Rich]

[quote author=cruiserdan link=board=2;threadid=12806;start=msg119148#msg119148 date=1078982340]
He had two electric fans in a custom fitted PROPER shroud on it.

Something else is up. I have been pondering this for months.
[/quote]

He his generating heat faster than the radiator can get rid of it. I expect accelerating all that weight and moving it up hills is consuming more fuel and generating more heat than the stock cooling system can handle. If a bigger radiator did not help, then perhaps the limiting factor is either the total airflow through the engine compartment or the water pump flow rate.

Dumping the viscous coupler and installing an appropriate fan that is not intended to be used with a viscous coupler is one possible approach to solving the problem.

Installing a smaller water pump pulley in order to increase the flow would also be a possible approach, but would need to be done with an understanding of the maximum rpm that the water pump can properly operate.

There are firms that have the equipment necessary to measure the heat transfer capacities of radiators. Comparing the factory radiator to the custom racing radiator would be interesting.

With respect to electric fans, I believe the stock engine driven fan is capable of moving substantially more air than any pair of electric fans. Electric fans may help when idling or driving slowly, but when the engine is at speed there is a lot more power available from the crank than from the little motors the electric fans have.

 

[SteveLCetc]

[quote author=Photoman link=board=2;threadid=12806;start=msg117973#msg117973 date=1078862427]
I did not have any luck with it in my 97. If I understand things correctly, the more water as a percentage you can run the better (faster) a system will cool. I thought anti-freeze and/or increasing the pressure of your system will raise the boiling point of water. It was also my understanding that Water Wetter worked on the water part of any mix. Here is a chart from there site with some info. Also, a link if so inclined.

http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/wwti.htm

Bill
[/quote]

That graph is wrong, by the way. WW and 50/50 is equal, in terms of cooling capacity, to 100% water. I've never tried it before, but just stuck a bottle in... Planning on a good flush soon, but I'm going on a run tomorrow and figured a little extra cooling wouldn't hurt. I'll post here whether or not I get any sludge.

 

[IdahoDoug]

Dunno how I missed this thread when it was going, but something I'm curious about as a data point. I am able to pull a load equivalent to way more than twice Photoman's 3000lbs of added vehicle weight with no overheating issues at all. We tow a 6000lb boat and when we do the vehicle has my family and gear equating to another 500lbs. Compared to Photoman's rig going down the road, the added wind resistance produces a tremendous strain. Yet no cooling issues.

Makes me truly wonder what's going on with his rig. Particularly since the original block lasted 29k (wow), and he's still got issues with the replaced block. Could a metal line in or through the firewall have been crimped during original production or some other odd defect that's restricting flow?

Just a data point and wondering. Also, any update on the oil cooler?

DougM

 

[Photoman]

Doug,

The best I can remember it was like this. Without the SC
I never had an overheating problem. I put the SC on and
took a 1000 mile roundtrip to test it out and pick up an
E-6 photo processor which weighed about 300 lbs. On
the way back I had the now infamous AC cutout, knocking,
and boil over. This was when the SC’s just became available.
This was also pre safari rack, no rear seats, basically stock.
Also, I should mention the ambient temp was in the 30’sF, it
was night, and it was raining. Why? I don’t know.
All I can say is some of us end up with cracked heads, head
gasket leaks, electrical problems, and others don’t.
Sorry to say the oil cooler is still just sitting there. I got sidetracked with making a second snorkel, intercooler, life, etc. etc. One of these days.

Bill