ReDesign? 2019 or? (1 Viewer)

[Noah Miller]

Forgetting about the actual redesign, I think recent model changes across all vehicles may help minimize some current LC200 issues.

For example using more high strength steel, or aluminum in places could keep strength and durability but reduce weight adding fuel milage.

Turbo technology has evolved some with recent introductions from Honda and others could help a Turbo 6 keep the luxury power and better torque curve, while reducing weight, raising fuel milage economy and maintaining durability.

The use of cameras and sensors in vehicles has certainly evolved some, which could render side/rearview mirrors almost obsolete, increasing visibility and reducing weight and drag. Could add milage as well.

There are a lot of interesting new interior designs and materials (i.e. Volvo, Alpha Romeo, LR/Jag, Porsche, etc) of seats both 2nd and 3rd row, along with space packaging in the last couple years. Toyota could certainly evolve those designs with the necessary overseas needs and make it more space efficient, reduce weight and add comfort and functionality. Also adding fuel milage. Wood is heavy, but looks great, how about great looking lighter material?

I would think regardless of shape or look, just the 4 areas above could keep the spirit of the LC going for another decade, potentially with a better power curve while reducing weight ~500lbs, add comfort, space efficiency, better tech?, along with a half dozen miles per gallon.....Keeping durability and reliability a wash. Seems like it'd be pretty easy eh?

 

[Chocolate]

I would expect a turbo 6 after the LS' move, but a 12 year newer, smaller V8 could also offer more power.

 

[Chocolate]

When is the next big redesign? Don't "need" anything right now (have an FJ). Want the latest and greatest and am willing to wait.

I guess it depends on what you mean by latest and greatest. Yeah, it'll have a little more power, better MPG, and Carplay. Personally, I would rather not get the first iteration of a new motor, even by Toyota. Not to mention the 1st and 2nd year resale hit on every new car. My Carplay is a vent mount for my phone.

The resale value on the used market is excellent and they are easy to sell. You can buy a LC or LX on the used market and sell it for minimal depreciation. From what I see on Autotrader, value on my truck has gone from 56000 (certified) to 45000+ after 20,000 miles and over 2 years. That's pretty good.

They need to fix the bumpers on the new LX also...

 

[Noah Miller]

I would expect a turbo 6 after the LS' move, but a 12 year newer, smaller V8 could also offer more power.

Agreed 100%

There are also many many proven bulletproof engine designs Toyota has in it's arsenal being used and not. I would imagine the last decade + was more than enough time to design and test something to bulletproof reliability.

I would bet the new turbo(s) in the Honda Accords will probably settle the turbos cannot be bulletproof debate over the next decade or so once and for all. It's definitely more about quality engineering for purpose not how the air gets into the engine.

 

[Markuson]

I’d put money down that it’s a
NOT-naturally-aspirated 6.

 

[Climbingnut]

I still don't understand all the turbo nay-sayers. Outside of N. America, Toyota's #1 engine (IMO) is the 1HD-T/FT/FTE. Myself and countless others have put hundred's of thousands of miles on turbo diesel engines and those engines and their turbo's never stop. The turbo'd 80 and 100 series are still one of the vehicles of choice for Europeans and African's doing Cape-Cairo trips. Lots of guys in SA are even putting turbo's on their 1HZ's. I get that this is more than likely a V6 turbo'd motor, but still.

IMO, if Mr. T puts a turbo on it, it'll be more than okay to run around the N. American continent where you have a Toy dealer or parts store within a phone call or 100 miles of where you are. So many D4D engines being flogged around the African continent, and of the issues they have, it's rarely the turbo.

 

[studawg]

I still don't understand all the turbo nay-sayers. Outside of N. America, Toyota's #1 engine (IMO) is the 1HD-T/FT/FTE. Myself and countless others have put hundred's of thousands of miles on turbo diesel engines and those engines and their turbo's never stop. The turbo'd 80 and 100 series are still one of the vehicles of choice for Europeans and African's doing Cape-Cairo trips. Lots of guys in SA are even putting turbo's on their 1HZ's. I get that this is more than likely a V6 turbo'd motor, but still.

IMO, if Mr. T puts a turbo on it, it'll be more than okay to run around the N. American continent where you have a Toy dealer or parts store within a phone call or 100 miles of where you are. So many D4D engines being flogged around the African continent, and of the issues they have, it's rarely the turbo.

Well first of all, the EGTs on gas turbos are much higher than diesel turbos, which directly affect turbo reliability. Secondly, you dont have the overbearing US EPA to deal with, which does a a great job of making any engine less reliable, less efficient and more expensive.

 

[Climbingnut]

While those two points are true, the reality is, that if Toyota puts a turbo on a gasoline engine, they'll have done the R&D to make it work and abide by EPA regs.

 

[studawg]

While those two points are true, the reality is, that if Toyota puts a turbo on a gasoline engine, they'll have done the R&D to make it work and abide by EPA regs.

Toyota is actually getting beaten by Ford in the JD Power Initial Quality Study over the past couple years and yet Ford has had numerous problems with their gas Ecoboost engines. Its precisely those EPA regs which are hurting engine reliability.

 

[CanyonLX]

I hear from a reliability source, although I wouldn't swear to it, that 2020 will see many new vehicles from Toyota including a new Land Cruiser.

Probably likely (how is that for confidence).

By 2020, there will be the new G class and new Defenders. Seems LC’s and LX’s pull from the same crowd, simply based on luxury SUV pricing.

 

[bloc]

I still don't understand all the turbo nay-sayers. Outside of N. America, Toyota's #1 engine (IMO) is the 1HD-T/FT/FTE. Myself and countless others have put hundred's of thousands of miles on turbo diesel engines and those engines and their turbo's never stop. The turbo'd 80 and 100 series are still one of the vehicles of choice for Europeans and African's doing Cape-Cairo trips. Lots of guys in SA are even putting turbo's on their 1HZ's. I get that this is more than likely a V6 turbo'd motor, but still.

IMO, if Mr. T puts a turbo on it, it'll be more than okay to run around the N. American continent where you have a Toy dealer or parts store within a phone call or 100 miles of where you are. So many D4D engines being flogged around the African continent, and of the issues they have, it's rarely the turbo.

Well first of all, the EGTs on gas turbos are much higher than diesel turbos, which directly affect turbo reliability. Secondly, you dont have the overbearing US EPA to deal with, which does a a great job of making any engine less reliable, less efficient and more expensive.

Exactly what I was going to say.. only maybe add the throttle plate required in a gasoline engine increasing wear on the turbo.


One thing no one is mentioning.. turbos will almost certainly be introduced alongside some version of gasoline direct injection. It is a big part of the economy/power numbers current gas engines can hit.. That has had well over a decade for the technology to mature, but does introduce a bunch of problems in itself if not well implemented. Many of the reliability issues ford deals with have to do with the fuel system, IIRC. Look at what BMW/Audi/VW/others have dealt with on intake valve deposits, high pressure fuel pumps, injector problems, etc.

Yes, toyota will test it like crazy.. but I just can't help the feeling that any new-design GDI turbo engine simply won't be as reliable/durable over the long haul as our naturally aspirated, port injected, 5.7L v8s.

Does anyone know whether the new LS engine is GDI?

 

[Njck22]

Below is all specualtion based on past LCs.

In north america they may appeal to a luxury suv crowd, but they are not designed for us. North America is far from their target market. The goal of what engine they put in or how they design it is not to please the NA customers. They are gonna design it for the people overseas, and for utility uses. Theyll take the highest toyota general grade (vx-l) and tweak it to meet north american requirments.

We want better mileage, more power, luxury, etc, but those arent a priority.
Overseas, the target markets normally do not see these things as the biggest concern. It's reliability. They will used the tried and true powerplants, the 1vd and the 5.7
In north america we could use just about any engine, like another user said there is a dealership every couple hundred miles or so in NA so getting parts is not a concern. Different story in somr parts of the world. Toyota would never try something risky(turbo 6) in a vehicle that needs to have proven reliabilty. Like everything on landcruisers, they are conservative and tested technology, nothing ground breaking being tried for the first time.

If NA could handle any engine, regardless of reliability, why not a turbo 6?
Toyota likley would not do the r&d for a turbo 6 for a market that moves so few of these. Like I said earlier its not designed for us. The land cruiser is sold overseas with the 5.7 and it's reliability is well proven, albeit not to the status of the diesels. Toyota has already got all the epa reqs for the 5.7, and established a huge parts base to serve the tundra seqouia crowd. The 5.7 seems to check all of the boxes imo. I think it will be kept for the next gen

In other words it not about what us North Americans want.

Interestingly In some countries you can actually get a 200 with a 1gr-fe(4runner engine).

 

[mooneywa]

Exactly what I was going to say.. only maybe add the throttle plate required in a gasoline engine increasing wear on the turbo.


One thing no one is mentioning.. turbos will almost certainly be introduced alongside some version of gasoline direct injection. It is a big part of the economy/power numbers current gas engines can hit.. That has had well over a decade for the technology to mature, but does introduce a bunch of problems in itself if not well implemented. Many of the reliability issues ford deals with have to do with the fuel system, IIRC. Look at what BMW/Audi/VW/others have dealt with on intake valve deposits, high pressure fuel pumps, injector problems, etc.

Yes, toyota will test it like crazy.. but I just can't help the feeling that any new-design GDI turbo engine simply won't be as reliable/durable over the long haul as our naturally aspirated, port injected, 5.7L v8s.

Does anyone know whether the new LS engine is GDI?

Spot on! My F-150 Ecoboost could straight up haul. I towed 7000lbs with ease, it barely downshifted to go over mountains, it was hot off the line... but it was a complete pain the rear to maintain and own for all of the above reasons. I BELIEVE, that so many of the problems I had were fixed with the 17MY Ecoboost that combined direct and port injection. If that's the case, I think I could be on board when it's backed by Toyota engineering and reliability.

 

[TonyP]

If reusing the 3UR is what you're getting at, there's no chance that'll happen.
The UR engine was introduced 13 years ago.
Turbo 6 is what it will be in the US.

 

[studawg]

If they offer a V8 in the Tundra and/or Sequoia, thats what will be in the Cruiser. Id be surprised if they didnt. They still put a big normally aspirated V6 in the Camry, where others have gone to turbo 4s.

 

[ryanCA]

I am not an engineer.

But from personal experience, my 1993 MR2 (4cyl Turbo) with 225K miles (am original owner), and my 1995 Supra (I-6 Twin Sequential Turbo) TT (132k miles-am original owner), haven't had any turbo issues. Everything is original, and running fantastic as it did day one when I bought it

My 1987 Supra (I-6 Turbo) had tons of head gasket issues. Then again, that same engine, in non Turbo form in my Cressida (I-6), also had HG issues.

 

[texas]

What would be nice is if Toyota made the LX's suspension and option for the LC. Like it does ROW. That would give it a couple of more years.

 

[Markuson]

Toyota is actually getting beaten by Ford in the JD Power Initial Quality Study over the past couple years and yet Ford has had numerous problems with their gas Ecoboost engines. Its precisely those EPA regs which are hurting engine reliability.

Initial quality usually has very little to do with reliability. Initial quality often focuses on fit and finish, and the number of minor details that need to be addressed such as interior trim, seatbelt issues, windshield seals, blah blah blah. It is usually not related to the engine since there are hundreds of Interior and X terrier doodads that can add up quickly against initial quality, but the engine is a comparatively small factor in the “initial quality” equation.

 

[M1911]

Spot on! My F-150 Ecoboost could straight up haul. I towed 7000lbs with ease, it barely downshifted to go over mountains, it was hot off the line... but it was a complete pain the rear to maintain and own for all of the above reasons. I BELIEVE, that so many of the problems I had were fixed with the 17MY Ecoboost that combined direct and port injection. If that's the case, I think I could be on board when it's backed by Toyota engineering and reliability.

Toyota has had similar problems with direct injected gas engines and has gone to the same solution - direct plus port injection.

 

[Climbingnut]

I agree, it's not going to be based on up NA requirements, but what they can give NA based upon the int'l demands. One of the options when I was purchasing my 200 GX-R from Toyota Gibraltar was the V6 petrol engine in the US 4Runner. It was a no go for me. I far preferred the 1VD.

Either way, when it comes down to it, the next gen Land Cruiser will be a good, solid, reliable vehicle. The int'l market demands it far more than the NA market does.