Rebuilt 3b bad tick (1 Viewer)

[stevebradford]

hey guys my cousin had his 3b rebuilt at a diesel shop, no idea how good they are there. All new parts except the block, crank and resurfaced cam.

Since It first started it has a steady tick at idle like a loose valve. not the sowing machine sounds it should have. Recently it’s been intermittently louder (nasty loud tick) can be hear over the motor noise from inside while under load as well as coasting. But it comes and goes.

Things that have been checked.

- Multiple valve adjustments
- fan hitting the shroud
- exhaust pipe noise
- exhaust manifold checked for leaks
- oil filter cut open, no metal
- oil changes, good pressure
- good compression

He is about to pull the head off we’re thinking it could be a loose pre cup rattling around in place? He had new pre cups put in then the head planed by the shop maybe they dident seat it fully?

Any ideas welcomed

Thanks guys

 

[REDREEFER]

My 2c.......
Given your description is almost to the tee the same as one that I experienced before I would like to suggest to not run it anymore and go with your thought of removing the head and checking the pre cups. In the case that I am familiar with, that was not done and one of the pre cups did break apart and took out the motor destroying the new pistons and new OEM head along the way.
Your going to want to avoid that experience.
All I can say is that when the head was removed at least two for sure if not all four, it was a while back, were loose in their bores and were sapping around between the head and block deck until #1 pre cup finally gave in.

Good luck.

 

[stevebradford]

Thanks yeah thinking along the same lines. Going to pull the head. fingers crossed!

 

[Sweatyforehead]

+1 on the Pre Cups
Some easy checks you could do before taking off the head: Take off the exhaust manifold and do a Ring Test (clean thoroughly in solvent, hang with a wire and tap with a hammer). If its a good solid ring you have no cracks. If a fuel injector is faulty, you can crack the nut connecting to the fuel line on a the injectors and look for any irregular flow.
If you want to get real scared, your noise could be coming from much more worse things: Cracked piston ring causing blowby, cracked pre-combustion chambers, worn connection rod pin bushings, cracked valves or seats, or a broken primary or secondary valve spring.

Hope this helps!

 

[stevebradford]

Oh yeah forgot to mention the crack one injector at a time test was done and apparently didn’t stop the tick.

He pulled the pan, valve cover and side cover last night found two of the brand new lifters have some very small pitting.

The cam lobes were built up then reground. But the cam lobes look ok from underneath looking up with the pan off. And the cam lobes were almost nonexistent before the rebuild with no nasty tics. The head should be coming off today.

 

[stevebradford]

He found some large magnetic chunks of metal in the oil pan.

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

He found some large magnetic chunks of metal in the oil pan.

Oh man, thats not good. Piece of crankshaft thrust bearing?? Or?? I guess you got the answer to how good that diesel shop is.

That is what I've expected to happen to my 2LTE I rebuilt a couple months ago...LOL...but I did a half ass job in my DIY shop. My engine's probably waiting for a more inopportune time when I'm further from home.

 

[REDREEFER]

Wow, That doesn't look good! First thing that comes to mind is a chunk of cam bearing but it looks kind of narrow and not bearing matirial, in those shots anyhow. Very strange. Is that one end machine chamfered on both sides at the tip?

 

[stevebradford]

Yeah not sure it’s magnetic and I think most bearing material isn't? It does look to be chamfered I’m not sure. and having worked at a engine shop before I don’t trust any especially the one I worked at.

That’s been my approach to these old diesels. Lapp the valves new pre cups oil pump and relief. Cross your fingers and hope for the best.

 

[stevebradford]

Well it’s the pre cups and it’s not good. All four pre cups are loose. one rattled it’s way threw the head gasket and into the fire ring and scored the piston wich damaged the cylinder liner.

He’s going to measure the depth of the pre cups against the old ones as well as the hole in the head to see what the shop F’d up. @REDREEFER was your loose pre cups issue new or old cups? Trying to figure out if the shop planed them down without sinking them fully into the head. Or the issue is with the non Toyota stainless cups used here.

 

[REDREEFER]

Dam Steve! It's like living the nightmare all over again! That's exactly what had happened but in our case it went as far as a pre cup dropping which cracked a piston and caused all kinds of carnage!
I wish I could tell you definitively what caused it but I can not.

In our case all new parts were used including Diesel Engine Power pre cups and complete engine kit including liners, pistons, bearings, caskets including composite head gasket. New OEM lifters, rocker shaft and rockers, cam re-ground......virtually the same scenario.

My personal feeling on it was that a factory MLS head gasket was not used. My theory being that the composite gasket could seal properly at the pre cup, blowing it out and then allowing the pre cup to start working out. Others may disagree, again my2c in the end like I said no definitive cause was reached in our case.

One thing you could look at is the relationship of head bolt length to total threaded bore depth assuming the head was milled, possibly head bolts were bottoming due to matierial taken off the head and or the block surfaces not allowing the head to be clamped down properly.

I am eager to find out what you come up with. In my case I was not able to do all the forensics I wanted to do at the time. If it helps at all I have a new factory MLS head gasket that I could measure for you if it would help.

Would be nice to know where that chunk of shrapnel came from as well!

Rob

 

[Sweatyforehead]

That chunk of metal looks a lot like the ends of the thrust bearing.

 

[stevebradford]

Damit your right... That looks a lot like the peices

 

[GTSSportCoupe]

That chunk of metal looks a lot like the ends of the thrust bearing.

That's what I thought too (I said it a few posts up).

 

[stevebradford]

That's what I thought too (I said it a few posts up).

you called it I just assumed it wouldn’t be magnetic like most bearings.

 

[stevebradford]

So still no definitive answer.

Head bolts holes have been measured have at least 3/8 of an inch more, definitely not bottomed out.

The loose cups were measured against some old ones without issues. I’m sure a machinist would find the loose ones shorter but no noticeable height difference.

The machine shop guy is on holidays right now so nothing much is happening.

 

[Bluebj42]

Scary S sorry to hear that buddy hope it gets sorted