Real time help with 2h Governor diapragm! (1 Viewer)

[Freewheel]

I've struck oil! on the wrong side of 2H Governor diaphragm!

Hi Guys,
I'm taking off the cover of the injection pump governor and engine oil starts pouring out of it. Enough that I soaked a 1 foot square rag in stemming the flow.

Should there be oil in here at all?? I emptied out the waste oil from the normal drain spot through the little drain plug in the side of the IP before I started and just a few drops came out. Then as I loosened the diaphragm cover screws, a steady flow started coming out.

Any ideas??

 

[Freewheel]

ok I get to answer my own question! The Outer cover of the governor diaphragm housing was full of oil - I don't know where from - but there was a lot in there! The drain plug is on the other side of the diaphragm so the oil couldn't get out. I'm sure it couldn't have been good for the proper function of the diaphragm. Another thing for you 2H owners to worry about...

I'll report back after my test drive. (there wasn't much wrong with the truck - sometimes a bit of black smoke -and slightly variable performance - nothing terrible - but I'm just slowly inspecting and replacing everything suspect in the truck)

 

[lostmarbles]

Was it engine oil or neatsfoot oil?

Actually it may be hard to tell because old neatsfoot can get very cruddy.

Interesting!!!

I'd guess some previous owner filled it up. (In ignorance of course - because it should only receive a drip or two of Neatsfoot oil every so often. ---- Barely enough to cause any build-up at all.)

If it was engine oil - it would have done the leather (in the diaphragm) serious harm I would think. (By tending to break down the fibres within it.)

 

[Freewheel]

It's definitely engine oil - and I can't even blame someone else for inadvertently filling it 'cause the Neetsfoot oil filler screw is on the OTHER side of the diaphragm. Either oil is somehow getting into the vacuum hose or getting past the diaphragm somehow.
The original diaphragm is completely oil soaked, but no holes - seems actually in good shape. - it's going to get cleaned in Neetsfoot oil and put in the spare parts pile.


On the plus side, now the truck seems to have way more power in the range between 1800 and 2500 rpm. It use to kind of fade a bit at those rpms and now it keeps the torque that it always had in the low end of the rpm range!

 

[lostmarbles]

Perhaps it might pay to have a look at the venturi in the throat of your intake manifold to see if there is engine oil around that? Maybe you have your "blowby" fed into your air intake and your engine is "tired" and is carrying a lot of oil into the manifold that way. (I'm assuming you don't have a turbo so the source of the oil won't be turbo seals.) But even so, I find it hard to believe it would flow down that vacuum line to the diaphragm. (I think oil getting into the manifold would simply get sucked into the engine's cylinders.)

And oil can't pass through the diaphragm to get to that vacuum side unless the diaphragm has a hole in it. And besides, you knew about the drain plug on the other side so presumably you had drained that side before and not noticed any excessive quantity of oil accumulating there.

Are you REALLY sure the oil came from the vacuum (outer) side of the diaphragm and not the pump-side????

The vacuum line simply supplies vacuum to the diaphragm to force it to move and the overall air flow through that line is ZILTCH (unless you have a torn diaphragm) so there is no flow to carry oil to that location.

Perhaps the oil got there somehow after a vehicle-rollover? - Although I consider that possibility unlikely too.

Unless someone has another idea - And unless you are mistaken as to which side the oil came from - Perhaps it will remain a mystery. ;p (Although there is still the posibility that a previous owner removed that neatsfoot-adding-plug and filled the cavity with engine oil for whatever reason.)

 

[Freewheel]

Totally sure the oil came from the outer (vacuum) side. I had to wipe off the cover, shims and return spring 'cause they were covered in oil. And it was skanky black engine oil, so it's doubtful that someone put it in there on purpose.

The truck's got only 246000 kilometers on it, and it doesn't seem too tired. The blowby tube (which IS fed into the air intake manifold) is a bit oily, but nothing unusual.

The rollover idea is not likely. I've had the truck for a year and a half and I've found evidence of a rear end crash, but no evidence that it rolled.

If, however, the blowby tube is where the oil comes from on the pump side of the diaphragm , it makes sense that it is as likely to go down either tube, since they both feed into the air intake manifold.
So maybe the yearly maintenance procedure becomes
1. empty oil from drain screw on pump side.
2 loosen diaphragm cover to release oil buildup on the vacuum side.


As you say -a bit of a mystery- although maybe it's just 22 years of collected blowby condensate.

 

[Freewheel]

Well, I've had a few days to drive around with the new governor diaphragm, and it feels like a new truck. I've gained a full gear speed on most of the hills around here - meaning hills that I used to gear down to 3rd to climb, I'm now doing in 4th. And I'm even staying in 5th for some uphill grades - which was unthinkable before.

No black smoke either.

If your truck feels wimpy in the 1800 to 1200 rpm range, and you've never touched the diaphragm - it might be time!

 

[TLC Norway]

cant find a good thread on diaphragm service/change. anyone?

 

[yotahed]

I've had this on my 3B for over 50K. I think its a combo of having slight turbo oil seepage thru the front seal, and the fact that the rear diaphragm housing isn't sealed very well from the front cavity, and the oil leaks from front to back.
There is a seal that separates the bottom flyweight/governor cavity where the linkage pokes up to actuate the rack. Mines leaking quite a bit and is common. See it on 90% of these types of pumps.
The upper cavity doesn't require much oil, but I think they engineered some leakage just make sure everything is mildly lubed. That'd be the reason for the drain plug. The oil can get in fine, but has trouble getting out.

 

[lostmarbles]

cant find a good thread on diaphragm service/change. anyone?

https://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/3b-diaphragm-replacement.182948/

This is the best thread from my memory for the 3B and the 2H should be the same procedure I think.



(I wonder if we'll ever get the search function working again with this new software?)

 

[TLC Norway]

Just did the change, and i also had the outer diaphragm cover half full with engine oil. it has to enter there from the hose from the inlet.
I just relalized, maybe i put the plate on the bolt "axle" turned 90 degrees wrong way.
I dont know if the inward travel of the diap. is as much as it used to be. the little black bent metal plate is turned like this when i put it in:

Maybe it should flip back, "supporting" the rear of that brass axle on the diaphragm?

(and yes, @lostmarbles I cannot get the search function working as good as before, either)

more of the progress in my thread.
There's so much left before i have it back in driving condition, so i'm considering opening up and flipping that black little bracket now that everything is out of the engine bay...

 

[lostmarbles]

Just did the change, and i also had the outer diaphragm cover half full with engine oil. it has to enter there from the hose from the inlet.
I just relalized, maybe i put the plate on the bolt "axle" turned 90 degrees wrong way.
I dont know if the inward travel of the diap. is as much as it used to be. the little black bent metal plate is turned like this when i put it in:View attachment 908510

Maybe it should flip back, "supporting" the rear of that brass axle on the diaphragm?

(and yes, @lostmarbles I cannot get the search function working as good as before, either)

more of the progress in my thread.
There's so much left before i have it back in driving condition, so i'm considering opening up and flipping that black little bracket now that everything is out of the engine bay...

It pays to clean components externally before opening them up ..... especially components in the fuel system.

I don't like the sight of all that crud around while a diaphragm is being changed.

And it does pay to always reinstall components exactly as they came out when your cruiser is unmolested. And if you suspect it has been molested (eg - by a PO with dubious skills), then it pays to refer to FSMs etc.

That "connecting bracket" is installed upside-down compared to illustrations in the FSM . I suspect it doesn't matter but to be safe, I'd reinstall as per FSM.

And of course it doesn't pay to tackle more than one job at a time. Ideally diaphragm replacement should be done on a running engine so that you'll know that any changes in performance can be attributed to the diaphragm work you've done and not to something else you've tinkered with...

Here's a couple of images from a 1985 FSM of the diaphragm area on a 2H:

 

[Tapage]

I've replace mine twice .. and both times was some oil but not enough to drip ..

 

[cuteo100]

Lostmarbles: you are a blessing to this site, always helpful and eager.

 

[TLC Norway]

Yeah, it seems like the fsm means it should be the other way.
I am looking at my removal pix, and i installed it the same way.
Might be a Po job, but it'll open and investigate.
Thanks

 

[Freewheel]

Ok, Time for the 10 year check-in on this thread. I can't believe its been that long...

Pulled the diaphragm cover off and about as much oil came out as it did 10 years ago. Not a ton, but not an insignificant amount either.

So perhaps it's something that should be checked every five years or so... and probably means that the Neatsfoot oil maintenance procedure is not necessary for some of us... It's be interesting to know if everyone with an old 2H or 3B has this (fairly minor) issue or whether its a rarity.

I always feel like the truck runs a bit better after the oil gets drained out.

 

[duncanrm]

Ok, Time for the 10 year check-in on this thread.
Pulled the diaphragm cover off and about as much oil came out as it did 10 years ago. Not a ton, but not an insignificant amount either.

You could just pull the drain plug out.. easier than removing the diaphragm cover.

 

[Freewheel]

I agree, it would be nice and easy if that worked. The drain plug drains the other side of the diaphragm... So, even if you're up to date on your maintenance for draining the diaphragm with the drain plug, you can still have it building up behind the front cover. I don't think it's something that happens with all 2H's and 3B's, but it definitely happens to some of them.

 

[hj 60]

Thanks for the info, I have finally ordered for regular maintenance and lets see if it makes a difference (I was waiting for high idle and smoke)
If it is full of oil I might tap a drain on that side (I have drained the other side a few times)

EDIT: of-course fedex delivers straight to dutch customs so had to pay 11 euro tax, hate it.
euro4x4 is cheaper because no extra tax:
http://www.euro4x4parts.com/toyota_.../3_engine/I/injection_pump_governor_diaphragm

So no more partsouq for me: fedex bugger off with tax
Ordered at the website because that was 10 dollar cheaper than from the same seller on ebay ebay is more expensive than website shop:
2230347010 Toyota DIAPHRAGM SUB-ASSY, GOVERNOR Price: 47.49$, Weight: 0.089kg - PartSouq - Auto Parts Around the World

DIAPHRAGM SUB-ASSY, GOVERNOR
Part Number: 2230347010

Item(s) Subtotal: 47.49$
Shipping & Handling: 11.35$
Total for This Shipment: 58.84$

For that money I expect at least 50 horsepower te be unleashed

EDIT:
Oke I want Toyota parts but it seems others also make this part and denso has another partnumber:

DIAPHRAGM SUB-ASSY, GOVERNOR

TOYOTA Part Number: 2230347010 DENSO 090580-0041


Reference No.: 090580-0041
Partnumbers of comparable manufacturers

Manufacturer Reference No.
Bosch 9 421 610 214
Denso 090580-0041
Nissan 19226-37503
Nissan 19226 37503
UD 19225 C6800
Zexel 155021-5621

very cheap 10 dollar from germany:
http://shop.dtp-motorteile.de/4DCGI/ezshop
from this link: 3B diaphragm replacement

HJ60 fuel system Governor Diaphragm FU-37

Please measure the adjustment shim and share to see what differences are around:

 

[hj 60]

There was no oil on the "wrong" side, a few drops from the drain plug.
Removed 8mm nut, on workbench removed splitpin, reattached nut in car, then new Diaphragm, then splitpin.
HJ60 fuel system Governor Diaphragm oil drain seems to have a lot of space and the oil is far below the Diaphragm:

Added some drops neatsfoot oil to both sides, but then is seems that the bottle froze (got white and low viscosity) during the night, if the oil freezes can it damage the diaphgram? now after a few hours in the freezer it is very thick but still moving.

And two o rings to my surprise, to much effort to remove one and see what happens, just accept it is from the factory adjustment, I hope...
Slightly better response, especially in 2nd gear, for the rest