real time help needed on my newly rebuilt, NOW blown 3B?

[Roberto]

Fellas, bad news indeed and I need thoughts or theories? If you have been following me thread of course you know that I was finished with my restoration of my BJ42 with my 3B being rebuilt and turboed as well. Well drove her to get her aligned at the alignment shop yesterday and wheels balanced and now issued rolling about 2000RPM 900F on EGT, and this on 32" tires in fifth gear with 3:70 gears. no problems felt great. Thsi morning around 8am went to drive her to get new exhaust put on for we had a makeshift exhaust on which was just clamped on bottom of wastegate. Well I was rolling about 2200 rpm with EGT's less for it was cooler outside being morning and a little foggy this am, well out of nowhere it just started accelrating by itself really high so I threw the clutch in and got over on the side of the road in about 30-45 seconds and then my cousin following behind me said it blew a big puff of black smoke and then my radiator starting overflowing. So I was so pissed, we let it cool for a little while and then we looked inside, we noticed the exhaust pipe popped off from where wehad it clamped, and the tube on my venturi in this pic was off as well? We cranked back up after awhile and was idling ruff and engine very shaky and at about 1500RPM, so we put that tube back on it the idle went back on to about 800 like normal but still very ruff and shaking? ANy ideas what this ruffness could be? We had it towed back to the house and drained the oil and dropped the pan and there was alot of metal shavings in the oil (no water), so we cleaned it good put new filter on, filled with oil, took total turbo system off and let it run natural and still very ruff and not smooth anymore. when the pan was down looked up and everything looked in place? no rods broke or sticking through any walls? so hat do we think? I spoke with someone else that siad their turbo did the turbed 3B did the same thing and this hose was off, whats the correlation? a local mechanic said to try and blled any air from fuel in which we tried and when I went to bleed the fuel filter bleeder first nothing came out? I pumped, broke the bleeder free and nothing, so I unscrewed it all the way out and still nothing, then I pumped while it was out and it started spitting fuel out? Then I went to the rear most line towards firewall and pumped and broke it free and nothing??

R

 

[eleblanc]

Same thing happened to me once, if you do not have proper collar on the 2 hoses going to the throttle body, when one disconnect due to pressure, seems like the system start to push LOTS of fuel. When it happened to me, it felt like i suddenly was on NOS and gain 200% HP. The throttle was like a on /off thing, and when pushed the temperature would sky rocket very quickly. I pulled right off the highway and coast to a stop and eventually notice that pipe disconnected. But it did not do any damage.

unfortunately i wouldn't know what kind of damage it can do.

Here was my thread Roberto
https://forum.ih8mud.com/diesel-tech-24-volts-systems/221421-too-much-power-problem.html

 

[eleblanc]

Roberto do you have a boost gage?

 

[Roberto]

No boost yet, just EGT

I just read through your thread, seems like this is quite common but my newly rebuilt engine did not take it well at all. I did get my air lockers and air tank installed since I can not drive it anymore?

 

[Roberto]

we are going to do a compression check tommorrow, can anyone tell me what should be my numbers on this 3B being rebuilt?? I will post back what we came up with?

 

[amaurer]

we are going to do a compression check tommorrow, can anyone tell me what should be my numbers on this 3B being rebuilt?? I will post back what we came up with?

Ideally 427psi. I don't think you'd get "shavings" from rings or sleeves, so I don't think your problem is going to be compression. I think its more likely that you blew the IP diaphragm when one side of it got vented to atmo... open it and check, might cause rough running.

What did the shavings look/feel like? Did they stick to a magnet? Slamming the throttle up doesn't immediately say to me that its a bearing-killer, I bet your shavings are from your attempts to get the oil pressure to come up when you were just starting out.

If those hoses pop off the engine revs up - thats totally normal, ask lostmarbles, he does it for fun . Normally those are vacuum lines, but with a turbo they turn into pressure lines so you need to clamp them.

 

[simonliew]

install hoseclamps on those 2 hoses,it happened to me ,the engine gain major horsepower but l didnot suffer any damage.
Simon

 

[Roberto]

open the diafram area up? if they dont stick to magnet what does that mean? one was sorta large? I will take pics manana and post but for most part very small but noticable, swipe my finger in and finger is covered in shavings? the fuel filter bleeder plug not bleeding when I tried it was weird and the back injector not bleeding like it used to before when bleed air from system? anything else I can try? my exhaust at idle is mostly black now? I just hope my new precups arent cracked, or head worse yet, or head warped or piston walls jacked up, or my new rebuilt injectors fried. I am turning in for the night but if anyone has any suggestions or tips for me to try or things to check, please feel free for I will do whatever tommorrow thats suggested, pull oil pan back off, pull caps from crank, compression, IP check, etc.....

R

 

[amaurer]

If they stick to a magnet they are from something meaty, like a ring or sleeve.

If they're chunks and don't stick to a magnet they're from a piston skirt or some such.

If they're thin like paper and don't stick to a magnet then they're bearing material.

A definitive test would be to touch them with the business end of a propane/mapp torch. If it melts instantly and even boils, its a bearing for sure (lead).

 

[roalco]

Sorry to hear about the engine, Roberto, I hope it's not too bad.
Vinyl-lite hoses like you have controlling the diaphram really do need clamps as they soften so fast under heat, I found that out the hard way years ago.
Really look at the metal you got in the pan. If it's magnetic it's steel or iron, most likely cylinder wall or rings from improper break in procedures accelerated by the brief overload. Possibly oil pump gear material too. Non-magnetic white metal (the soft bearing material, that may sort of look thin and semi melted) can be from mains, rod bearings (BEBS) wrist pins or cam bearings.
Take your time, sort out the debris and clea it and try to identify it. How much is magnetic, non-magnetic, hard, soft, tiny, shavings, flakes, etc.?
Take your time and keep breathing, and try to do it systematically. and try to post some pics of the debris.
Unfortunately, on initial start up and break in if a diesel gets overloaded you often get someting called microseizures as the piston rings try to seat in the liners but end up (because of localised ultra high temps, they weld together then fracture) pulling small chunks off the cylinder walls, this leads to glazing of the cylinders, creating sort of a mirror finish, which allows ring blow by, low compression and very abrasive metallic paricles in the oil (the iron from the liners). This can cause localized hot spots, seizures and possibly even a crankcase explosion.
That may have been the big puff of black smoke. However it did free itself (and nothing came out the side....) and you got it running. If you're going to run the engine for tests etc, I'd throw a couple of magents (use a couple of big speaker magnets) onto the oil pan to try to help retain the magnetic debris from circulating.
Blow by (from the above issue) and subsequent low compression in one or more cylinder can lead to uneven power and rough running. I'd try a compression test, first, at cold, to just check to see if all cylinders are similar pressure or if some are way low. That'll identify that problem if it exists. Your cylinder liners need that nice crosshatched honing pattern to hold oil and to allow correct seating in of the rings (break in), unfortunately, on a 3B, I think that you will need to take the head off to ascertain if you have glazing (mirror surface) caused by microseizures on the cylinders. I don't think a boroscope will be able to get past the precups to let you have a look remotely.
Good luck and remember, you will get past this and your truck will run!

 

[tmarx]

Very sorry to hear Rob. Holding thumbs mate

 

[roalco]

Was thinking all night and the whole thing sounds like the maybe turbo wastegate wasn't opening initially, and caused the boost to over pressure, blow the diaphram hose off and start the whole overrun thing on a relatively un-broken in engine??? What was it set at (hopefully no more than 8-10psi)? Maybe disconnect the line from the compressor to the WG and try shop air on it (gently) to see if the actuator moves, and if the shaft to the valve moves.
Was your exhaust brake fitted at the time??

 

[lowenbrau]

Pull the head and have a look. It's common to lose the diaphragm hoses after turbocharging because they were never designed to see pressure, only vacuum. The governor should have kept your revs down to 4150 but, clearly, something came apart up top hence the rad overflow. My money is on a cheap aftermarket head gasket.

 

[lowenbrau]

Another note. Get the girdles back on those injector tubes. They'll crack pretty quick without them and the dealer doesn't have them anymore.

 

[lostmarbles]

Pull the head and have a look. It's common to lose the diaphragm hoses after turbocharging because they were never designed to see pressure, only vacuum. The governor should have kept your revs down to 4150 but, clearly, something came apart up top hence the rad overflow. My money is on a cheap aftermarket head gasket.

x 2. Those hoses must have clamps fitted Rob.

But I'm surprised that the front hose coming off caused your revvs/power to soar. I thought it would have to have been the rear one

And I also suspect your "radiator overflow event" is connected with the damage. ...........It suggests to me that exhaust gases suddenly entered your coolant passages as a result of the "sudden and dramatic revv increase". And the most likely cause of this (according to lowenbrau & myself) would be a blown head gasket (unless your BJ42 was already on the verge of overheating prior to the "hose blowing off").

Let's hope the "metal in the oil" is not related/important - but photographs would help us determine this perhaps?

And as far as "air getting into your fuel" is concerned - that black hose towards the rear of your engine is a prime cause because it is on the suction/vacuum side of your fuel pump. So it will never drip diesel out when it is leaking - Instead it will readily allow air to get sucked in!

(Wonder how this edit will turn out because the ih8mud site is causing me no end of trouble this morning! It is incredibly slow and doing wierd things at the same time!)

 

[amaurer]

And I also suspect your "radiator overflow event" is connected with the damage. ...........It suggests to me that exhaust gases suddenly entered your coolant passages as a result of the "sudden and dramatic revv increase". And the most likely cause of this (according to lowenbrau & myself) would be a blown head gasket (unless your BJ42 was already on the verge of overheating prior to the "hose blowing off").

Let's hope the "metal in the oil" is not related/important - but photographs would help us determine this perhaps?

I kinda glossed over the radiator bit... what brand/type of gasket set did you use? Composite or MLS? I wouldn't recommend screwing around with the HG, go Toyota, and MLS.

 

[Roberto]

Well fellas, thanks for all the help on this. here is what I did today, first off the turbo was new with an adjustable wastegate but came ready to go. I never messed with it or my fuel screw. We pulled the engine apart at least top half today and the pics are attached for your viewing for I am no mechanic. the head gasket came with the kit I got from 4Wheelauto and is perfect and not blown? oh and in the pics, we did not drain block coolant prior to taking head off. we did a compression check this morning cold and from the firewall cylinder moving forward is as follows: 340, 360, 420, 430, and we did this twice to be sure. i checked the diafram and it was coated with oil on both sides but not blown, so drained it with that little screw and cleaned off. it still idles about 800rpm but super ruff, whole truck shaking. so look at the back 2 cylinder rockers and springs, should they both be depressed down like they are in pics, I am not sure what the firing order is? then in the 2 cylinder form firewall look at the wired marks on cylinder walls, it is the only cylinder like this with thes emarks and in one spot there is a very slight abrasion feel? the other cylinders feel smooth and wearing all the same from what I see? i checked the precups which were replaced new with rebuild and they were fine and not cracked. could there be something wrong with my injectors making it run ruff, or worse yet in my IP now? I mean, I took the injector lines off completely, primed fuel filter bleeder, then bleed IP screw, then put lines back on and tried to bleed lines and it seems there is alot of pressure for it is hard to pump IP primer and agin I am getting nothing at each injector when I crack them? and then it will still fire right up but shouldnt if it has air from me taking lines off? so anyway, we put all back on but not tighten up, and I guess just have someone take engine out rebuild again and reinstall with my headers on first until broke in and then I may try the turbo thing?

Let me know what you see from pics

Thanks fellas
Rob

 

[Roberto]

more pics

 

[Roberto]

some more

 

[Roberto]

just a few more