- Thread starter
- #21
last ones
real time help needed on my newly rebuilt, NOW blown 3B?
- Thread starter Roberto
- Start date
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- Thread starter
- #22
turbo pics after we took off.
- Thread starter
- #23
some more
Sorry to hear that Rob, especially after all the effort you've put in.
Even if the turbo wastegate is set to some figure like 9psi, it can still deliver more in an engine runaway condition. Whether this was the cause of your coolant pressurising I can only speculate. But the combination of high revs, dangerous levels of fuel and whatever boost the turbo can deliver is particularly hard on a high compression IDI diesel.
Can you stick a bike pump with a pressure gauge on the wastegate line? See what it opens at.
Even if the turbo wastegate is set to some figure like 9psi, it can still deliver more in an engine runaway condition. Whether this was the cause of your coolant pressurising I can only speculate. But the combination of high revs, dangerous levels of fuel and whatever boost the turbo can deliver is particularly hard on a high compression IDI diesel.
Can you stick a bike pump with a pressure gauge on the wastegate line? See what it opens at.
- Thread starter
- #25
I never thought about it, I dont have a bike pump though. I am actually getting ready to go back to NC where I live. need a break from this project for awhile though i thought it was coming home this weekend.
R
R
Firstly - I don't think you should EVER leave the tops of your injectors (or the outlets from your injector pump) open like that - allowing the possibility for cr@p to fall in. As soon as you remove the lines you should immediately fit plastic caps! (But I know you will be under duress at the moment Rob. - I certainly would be!)
The clearances inside injectors are so precise that no foreign material should be allowed to enter.
Damn! Well there goes my No.1 theory!
Yeah. Stressful situations lead to such errors. Take it easy! Sometimes it's best to walk away for a while.
Well they're all above the minimum spec. (284 psi).
Your average reading is 387.5psi and accepting that they shouldn't vary by more than 10% from this (which is by 38.75psi) that means your readings really should lie between 348.75 and 426.25. (Well this is the way I do it anyway
)
-But then you did do the tests with the engine cold.
Still .... Obviously we'd like to see cylinders 3 and 4 reading higher. And the reading suggest we should look at those cylinders.
Have you ever removed that screw before Rob?
(The diaphragm should ideally be moist with neatsfoot oil both sides. But engine oil should be slow to accumulate in the bottom of that chamber forward of the diaphragm. It shouldn't accumulate there fast!)
But ignoring all this - I can't see how that diaphragm could be connected with this "radiator overflow event" or with "metallic particles in your oil".
Having said this - the amount of metal you show there doesn't look overly alarming to me for a recently worked-on engine. (For instance I suspect you have a new oil pump there and perhaps the teeth on that do "wear-in". But I hasten to add - that I'm no expert in this regard by any means.
I think this is probably normal but you could have confirmed whether or not it was normal by rotating the crank and seeing if the same thing happens on your other cylinders.
Yes. I see an odd wear pattern there too. But isn't it really No.3 cylinder (because the numbering process should always start from the front)?
I'd pull that piston and have a look-see anyway.
A way to find out which cylinder is "missing" (not firing) would be to loosen the nut on the top of each injector in sequence while the engine is running. When you find one that causes no difference in the already-rough running (ie - it doesn't stall or run even rougher still) - then you have found your offending cylinder.
You do realise that you CANNOT bleed at the top of the injectors using your primer-pump? You do need to have the engine turning over to bleed there. (Because that's the only way of getting the injector pump pistons to deliver fuel in that direction.)
When the primer pump becomes stiff - it is usually telling you that the circuit it is pumping fuel into - is closed.
Your primer pump can only be used to bleed air from the section of the fuel circuit between your fuel-pump-outlet and your injector pump. And the furtherest downstream point in this section is that bleed nipple on the body of your injector pump.
...
The clearances inside injectors are so precise that no foreign material should be allowed to enter.
Damn! Well there goes my No.1 theory!
Yeah. Stressful situations lead to such errors. Take it easy! Sometimes it's best to walk away for a while.
Well they're all above the minimum spec. (284 psi).
Your average reading is 387.5psi and accepting that they shouldn't vary by more than 10% from this (which is by 38.75psi) that means your readings really should lie between 348.75 and 426.25. (Well this is the way I do it anyway
) -But then you did do the tests with the engine cold.
Still .... Obviously we'd like to see cylinders 3 and 4 reading higher. And the reading suggest we should look at those cylinders.
Have you ever removed that screw before Rob?
(The diaphragm should ideally be moist with neatsfoot oil both sides. But engine oil should be slow to accumulate in the bottom of that chamber forward of the diaphragm. It shouldn't accumulate there fast!)
But ignoring all this - I can't see how that diaphragm could be connected with this "radiator overflow event" or with "metallic particles in your oil".
Having said this - the amount of metal you show there doesn't look overly alarming to me for a recently worked-on engine. (For instance I suspect you have a new oil pump there and perhaps the teeth on that do "wear-in". But I hasten to add - that I'm no expert in this regard by any means.
I think this is probably normal but you could have confirmed whether or not it was normal by rotating the crank and seeing if the same thing happens on your other cylinders.
Yes. I see an odd wear pattern there too. But isn't it really No.3 cylinder (because the numbering process should always start from the front)?
I'd pull that piston and have a look-see anyway.
A way to find out which cylinder is "missing" (not firing) would be to loosen the nut on the top of each injector in sequence while the engine is running. When you find one that causes no difference in the already-rough running (ie - it doesn't stall or run even rougher still) - then you have found your offending cylinder.
You do realise that you CANNOT bleed at the top of the injectors using your primer-pump? You do need to have the engine turning over to bleed there. (Because that's the only way of getting the injector pump pistons to deliver fuel in that direction.)
When the primer pump becomes stiff - it is usually telling you that the circuit it is pumping fuel into - is closed.
Your primer pump can only be used to bleed air from the section of the fuel circuit between your fuel-pump-outlet and your injector pump. And the furtherest downstream point in this section is that bleed nipple on the body of your injector pump.
...
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You need to take that back to the shop that rebuilt it! Looks like # 3 is scuffed and the metalic particles could be the rings, or what is left of them. Turbo would not cause this unless you ran EXTREMELY high boost. Take it back to the engine shop, they F'd something up.
Daryl
Daryl
Would too tight ring-gap cause that?
Certainly....ring gaps have a spec you have to follow when building an engine. As it heats up and the thermal expansions happen the aluminum piston will expand more than the steel rings the rings get tighter in the lands and could lead to this.
Also if you still have good oil pressure then there is not much more in the engine to produce the metallic bits he is showing. Pre-cups are good but they are stainless anyways. Everything in the valve train looks good also, all cyls show some compression so camshaft is not broke.
Next step would be to pull the #3 piston and see what is causing that mess...
Daryl
Also if you still have good oil pressure then there is not much more in the engine to produce the metallic bits he is showing. Pre-cups are good but they are stainless anyways. Everything in the valve train looks good also, all cyls show some compression so camshaft is not broke.
Next step would be to pull the #3 piston and see what is causing that mess...
Daryl
- Thread starter
- #30
thanks fellas, I am going to talk to the machine shop who built it. can I drop the pistons from below without pulling entire engine and crank and all? I want to look at it. but shouldnt I be worried about all the cylinders and all the bearings now? I mean, I think I want it totally checked out now. I gave this machine shop the 3B engine manual, and the spc sheet that came with the rebuild kit.
R
R
Roberto,
My random, non-expert thoughts:
1) That wear pattern in number 3 is unusual. It could be a tight end gap as others have suggested.
2) That's a LOT of metal bits on the end of your magnet. And all of those are iron/steel which means crank, rings, cam, followers, or cylinder walls.
3) How much did you run this engine since the rebuild? That looks like a lot of carbon for an engine that only has, say, one hour on it. I could be wrong as I have experience with diesel internals.
My random, non-expert thoughts:
1) That wear pattern in number 3 is unusual. It could be a tight end gap as others have suggested.
2) That's a LOT of metal bits on the end of your magnet. And all of those are iron/steel which means crank, rings, cam, followers, or cylinder walls.
3) How much did you run this engine since the rebuild? That looks like a lot of carbon for an engine that only has, say, one hour on it. I could be wrong as I have experience with diesel internals.
Roberto,
This is what I was talking about when I said it looks like a lot of carbon - I circled it in red on your picture.
That stuff looks like long-term petroleum-based baked-on residue rather than fresh soot from the normal diesel process. The damage to 3 not withstanding, you cylinders just don't look like I'd expect from a fresh rebuild.
This is what I was talking about when I said it looks like a lot of carbon - I circled it in red on your picture.
That stuff looks like long-term petroleum-based baked-on residue rather than fresh soot from the normal diesel process. The damage to 3 not withstanding, you cylinders just don't look like I'd expect from a fresh rebuild.
Here's the pic. Ugg, sorry.
It's almost as if they didn't bother to hone the cylinder walls...
It's almost as if they didn't bother to hone the cylinder walls...
- Thread starter
- #34
2 short rids no more than 20 mins each, and maybe a total of 30 mins prior to that in starting and priming. here are pics after it was machined.
R
R
Personally I would leave it alone and let the engine shop open it up further, they possibly made a mistake, you opening it up further may give them reasons not to help you.
HTH's
Daryl
HTH's
Daryl
- Thread starter
- #36
oh yeah, I am done with it, I can do no more for I am not a mechanic. cruiser is in FL and I am now back in NC so he will get a call this week.
R
R
Rob, just my opinion but i wouldn't(as i'm not a highly trained mechanic) go any further disasembling if the problem hasn't been obvious. I'm afraid the rebuild shop might use this as an excuss in the event they made a mistake during the rebuild process. There are alot of excellent surveys from our guys here, but i would really get with your mechanic soon.
What puzzles me is you had been driving it and it was running fine? No rough idle,etc? Prior to the NOS boost, had your temps been fine or was it running hot during the drive? Alot of us have had the venturi line pop off(and it is exhilirating for sure) but i can't remember anyone reporting damage. The rough idle so resembles an air bubble in the line but why or how that could/would happen is beyond me. You certainly don't deserve this but whatevers wrong CAN and Will be fixed so hang in there.
What puzzles me is you had been driving it and it was running fine? No rough idle,etc? Prior to the NOS boost, had your temps been fine or was it running hot during the drive? Alot of us have had the venturi line pop off(and it is exhilirating for sure) but i can't remember anyone reporting damage. The rough idle so resembles an air bubble in the line but why or how that could/would happen is beyond me. You certainly don't deserve this but whatevers wrong CAN and Will be fixed so hang in there.
- Thread starter
- #38
Yeah Im good, no, it was running perfect, no hot temps whatsoever, very smooth, again with the 3.70's in now, I was running 65 MPH at 2200 RPM, very nice indeed. I will get it back straight, I dont know what I can do with the machine shop, we put it all back together but did not tighten things back down for I knew it would have to come apart anyway. Have a look at my wastegate in the pics, does it look like it is almost closed? when hood was opened, the vacuum line was off and the exhaust had come off from wastegate. other than that it was rolling just fine so I am boggled, and the turbo was great but not alot of power at top end, i was about there in power, great in lower gears though. I will get it back together and redone again, I want to take my IP to get looked at for I never did that besides new diafram. So I was thinking fuel problem but compression check is done without fuel so blows that theory? with the $$ I have into this project and engine I want it to be perfect so it will be, I will however break it in next time with manifold then after awhile put turbo back on, need to have that checked out though. It was so nice to be driving again and really felt good.
R
R
