Real Time Help 3FE power!!!

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Okay here's the deal,
The FJ80 (3FE) was running about as normal as one can hope before this past weekends maintenance.
I've had this old leak for the longest time and could not find the source. So I started to replace as many gaskets as I could.

So this weekend I replaced the:
Valve cover gasket and the side panel gasket (where the push rods are) and while I was in there, I decided to do a valve job.

Valve job was okay excepts for the 3 intake valves that were gaps for an exhaust (I =.08) and (E=.14). (simulated diesel sound!)

The gaskets went on without a problem however I did need to take the distribute off to get the side cover off.

So I get everthing back together last night and test this morning. As always one has to check the timing of the engine. I found the whole to check the timing so I hooked up the timing light.
I CAN'T find the mark on the flywheel with the timing light connected to number 1 cylinder. It appears to be dirty enough for me to not understand what the timing mark on the flywheel looks like so I used my best guess for 7º BTDC.

Well, The test drive is very disappointing. The rig will not get about 10 miles per hour with the engine at 1500 RPMs. It just does not have enough power to drive down the street.

I did remember to jump the diagnostic box for the timing to be set properly. And, before I re-timed, the battery was disconnected for about 20 minutes.

Sincerely,
Cruiserless

 

[dd113]

The mark is a small ball on the flywheel and is very difficult to see. Rotate the motor by hand until you find the ball. If you did not have the ball in place and number #1 at TDC or if you did not get the dist back into the corect location that is your problem. 3FE is wierd about where the dist needs to sit and how/where the rotor needs to point to number one. Read the FSM and look at the PIC

It could also be a vac leak.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

dd113,
Thanks. I have (A) manual on CD but don't have the FSM, that's mistake one.

I thought about the vaccum leak but I checked and could not find any, but I will recheck.

 

[honk]

It sounds very like you put the distributor back in a tooth away from where it should be.
The timing ball is not THAT hard to see IF it's in the window when #1 fires.

Because the gears which drive the distributor are helical the rotor moves when the distributor is lifted, and it moves back when the distributor is lowered. If a person is not careful to note the EXACT position of the rotor in relation to the engine BEFORE raising the thing out and equally careful to see that the rotor returns to the exact point from which it was first disturbed, it is quite easy to lower the drive gear into the next available slot. The rotor may look like it went back to where it was when the distributor was lifted but that point could have easily been incorrect if the user did not, I repeat, note the position BEFORE taking any action at all.

 

[honk]

I'll just ASSUME that you at least had the sense not to turn the engine at all while the distributor was not installed....

 

[GXO]

I toss my two cents into the "distro in wrong" hat.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

It sounds very like you put the distributor back in a tooth away from where it should be.
The timing ball is not THAT hard to see IF it's in the window when #1 fires.

Because the gears which drive the distributor are helical the rotor moves when the distributor is lifted, and it moves back when the distributor is lowered. If a person is not careful to note the EXACT position of the rotor in relation to the engine BEFORE raising the thing out and equally careful to see that the rotor returns to the exact point from which it was first disturbed, it is quite easy to lower the drive gear into the next available slot. The rotor may look like it went back to where it was when the distributor was lifted but that point could have easily been incorrect if the user did not, I repeat, note the position BEFORE taking any action at all.

Honk,
Yes I total understand what you are discribing. As I was taking the dist. out I noticed the position of the rotor. But then as dist. came totally out, I saw the end of the distributor and it had a notch on the end (half moon, whatever). I was thinking the dist. should fit back with out thinking. Then did not think about it after that.

Wait a minute, now that I think about it right now, doesn't the dist. drive the oil pump. Since I don't have a FSM I can't verify. I bet I have the dist. off by one tooth.

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

I'll just ASSUME that you at least had the sense not to turn the engine at all while the distributor was not installed....

Honk,
I do believe that if I did that, I would have to turn in my TLCA club card to the nearest member and receive my ass whoop'in.

 

[Aseif007]

jklubens,

The 3FE is very touchy with distributor installation. Is the motor at TDC when you try and install the dizzy? Also, the rotor should be pointing at the #1 spark plug on the cap when it is first put in (using the FSM method). Start with the rotor pointing at #1 plug, and rotate the rotor clock wise a little as the rotor will turn counter clockwise when it meshes with the CAM gear. You also need the align the slot for the oil pump. If your dizzy wasn't in all the way you would see/feel a gap between the dizzy and the block or possibly hear the teeth grinding. How does it idle and at what RPM do you idle with the dizzy installed in its current position? If you fully advance or retard the timing does it make it better? I would guess you are a tooth off. Be patient, this process can test your patients so don't get frustrated. Good luck.

 

[Pskhaat]

Remove the #1 spark plug, shine a flashlight in there and you can see the pistion come to top when you can then verify the BB on the flywheel in conjunction.

 

[Aseif007]

I scanned the two pages of my 88' FSM that contained the procedure for installing the dizzy in the 3FE. Hope it helps.

http://www.aseif007.net/FJ_62_FSM/timing.html

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

I scanned the two pages of my 88' FSM that contained the procedure for installing the dizzy in the 3FE. Hope it helps.

http://www.aseif007.net/FJ_62_FSM/timing.html

Aseif007,
Thank you so much. I will use this right now.

Jim

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Aseif007, Thanks again for the scan. I used it and I got the engine back to the proper timing and idle. BTW, I have a FSM on order as of 10am today.

All, however I still have the same problem. The rig can drive and the rpm's can get up in the 3000 range but it does not want to go anywhere. At 3000 rpm's it's doing about 25 mph with the accelerator fully depressed.

Anyone have an idea.

I'm going to try and reset the ECU by leaving the POS battery cable off then retime.

I'm at a loss!!

 

[Pskhaat]

What other conditions? Does the engine run rought? Can you hear backfiring? How is the idle? Were the cap & rotor damaged at all?

Did you:

View the BB, ensure #1 is at top (it always should be), put your thumb over the spark plug hole to know you're at the end of the compression stroke, pop the cap and ensure the rotor points to the #1 wire on the cap?

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

What other conditions? Does the engine run rought? Can you hear backfiring? How is the idle? Were the cap & rotor damaged at all?

Did you:

View the BB, ensure #1 is at top (it always should be), put your thumb over the spark plug hole to know you're at the end of the compression stroke, pop the cap and ensure the rotor points to the #1 wire on the cap?

3FJ40,
Okay, to ansewer the questions.
First, what's BB mean?
I put the engine at TDC and verified with the timing mark on the flywheel and taking the spark plug out and seeing the top of the piston. Also, when lining up the distributor, the rotor was in the proper position: pointing to number 1 cylinder at the cap.

The engine runs fine. It idles without a problem, no backfire and no hesitation.
The only thing that's a problem is when driving. For example: on the test drive just a little bit ago, I got the rpm's up to 3500 before is kicked into second gear.
The cap and rotor are in good conition.

end

 

[Pskhaat]

Sorry, the BB is a vestige from the actual 1F/2F flywheels. If it's idling okay, no sputtering then that points elsewhere.

When you're driving, is there hesitation, or does it just completely feel like the pedal can't make it far enough and the engine runs fine. Pop the hood and when idling, manually turn the throttle (where the throttle cable attaches)...does the same thing happen? Does the engine respond any differently when depressing the pedal while in PARK?

 

[Cruiser Jimmy]

Sorry, the BB is a vestige from the actual 1F/2F flywheels. If it's idling okay, no sputtering then that points elsewhere.

When you're driving, is there hesitation, or does it just completely feel like the pedal can't make it far enough and the engine runs fine. Pop the hood and when idling, manually turn the throttle (where the throttle cable attaches)...does the same thing happen? Does the engine respond any differently when depressing the pedal while in PARK?

The only problem I see is when I take the positive battery cable off by ECU reset. After connecting there is a little sputtering. But it fixes itself and really does not happen again.

There is hesitation is forward movement. I completely press the gas and it take a while for the engine to rev up, then it takes even long for the rig to gain speed. Finally, I can back off the gas for the engine to kink into 2nd gear.
I can operate the throttle inside the engine compartment just fine. It rev's up in partk and neutral without a problem.

Still baffled.

 

[davisdrafting]

Did you remember to take the jumper out of the plug?
sometimes it’s the simplest things that get you,
just think simple first.

 

[semlin]

dunno, just the obvious to double check you have all vacuum hoses hooked up properly and that you didn't unhook anything or pinch a wire, plug leads in correct order etc...

 

[honk]

Well, it sounds like a plugged catalytic converter but it stands to reason that if it ran good prior to your ministrations and does not run good following your work, something you did has caused the new problem.

If it is true that all is well and correct with the basic timing (you don't by chance use a timing light with an advancer built in do you, and perhaps neglected to zero it?), then you'll have to look to your "valve job" which most have taken to mean "valve adjustment".

Incorrectly adjusted valve clearances affect timing. They also can severely impact engine performance, particularly at higher rpm levels. The operation requires the very careful positioning of each piston and related valve gear before any measurement or adjustment may be accurately done. To be frank your description of your having done this job has an offhand, even cavalier character which I would not expect from a person who has only just completed the task for the first time. It is a serious and difficult proposition to adjust the valves correctly even for an experienced person despite the oft-heard almost flippant descriptions of the doing of the job.

All of this said I hope that you can accept that there is a possibility of an error of performance by you and go back to examine your previous efforts, hopefully with FSM in hand. There is no shame in going back and you should know that if it is the case that you have erred you are far from the first to do so, so far in fact that should you encounter anyone who would deny having ever had to redo a job of auto repair you would be safe in calling him or her a liar, if the person had ever actually attempted such a thing.