re-tubing rear drive shaft

[landtank]

I got back from our fall gathering with a twisted rear drive shaft. So I've set my sights on some thicker tubing. What I've decided on is some 2.75" x .134" DOM tubing. I just don't know where to source it. I have a call into my machinist to see if he can source this stuff.

Any help with this would be appreciated.

 

[Cruiserdrew]

Rick-Cant you just go to your local driveline place and ask them to install their thickest tubing? That's what I've always done. The thicker tubing is harder to balance, so there is an optimal point out there. I think I'm running 0.12 wall tubing on everything right now. Stock 80 is something like 0.08 and stock 40 is 0.06 or something like that. I've striped my 60s driveshaft pretty good and it still runs smooth, so the .12 is probably sufficient.

 

[bpassmore]

adding that extra rotating weight will likey cause extra drive line vibrations. keeping those things light is usually a big priority.
Is this your DD?

 

[barrypt5]

Ryerson - Stock List

Not sure how close a local branch would be though...

 

[landtank]

Rick-Cant you just go to your local driveline place and ask them to install their thickest tubing? That's what I've always done. The thicker tubing is harder to balance, so there is an optimal point out there. I think I'm running 0.12 wall tubing on everything right now. Stock 80 is something like 0.08 and stock 40 is 0.06 or something like that. I've striped my 60s driveshaft pretty good and it still runs smooth, so the .12 is probably sufficient.

That's the first thing I did. But they don't have any .120 wall in the correct size. They measured the standard tube and the size I posted is the correct ID for a press fit. It's just under 2.5", a 2.75" OD in .120 wall would be too big.

 

[landtank]

adding that extra rotating weight will likey cause extra drive line vibrations. keeping those things light is usually a big priority.
Is this your DD?

Yes it is, these guys do a high speed balance and have put thick wall tubing on before for other applications so I think it will be OK.

 

[619TOY]

When I had custom driveshafts built for my rig, I wanted the shop to use thicker tubing as well. My thinking was that there is less likelyhood of damage right? Maybe, but I was soon educated and completely agree with what the builder told me:

Think of the driveshaft as a fuse in your drivetrain. It is certainly the most accessable and most easily swapped component in your entire drivetrain. If you make it stronger (like putting a bigger than recommended fuse in a circuit) and overly stress your drivetrain (which we know that you have been know to do Rick) what might be the next weakest link? Whatever it is, I'm sure that I would rather swap a driveshaft on the trail than a ring & pinion. Carrying a couple extra driveshafts is pretty easy, so is swapping them. After my "education", I decided not to go with thicker tubing. Food for thought.

 

[80t0ylc]

When I had custom driveshafts built for my rig, I wanted the shop to use thicker tubing as well. My thinking was that there is less likelyhood of damage right? Maybe, but I was soon educated and completely agree with what the builder told me:

Think of the driveshaft as a fuse in your drivetrain. It is certainly the most accessable and most easily swapped component in your entire drivetrain. If you make it stronger (like putting a bigger than recommended fuse in a circuit) and overly stress your drivetrain (which we know that you have been know to do Rick) what might be the next weakest link? Whatever it is, I'm sure that I would rather swap a driveshaft on the trail than a ring & pinion. Carrying a couple extra driveshafts is pretty easy, so is swapping them. After my "education", I decided not to go with thicker tubing. Food for thought.

Excellent point!!! There's some definite wisdom in that. -Tom

 

[Beowulf]

Think of the driveshaft as a fuse in your drivetrain.

Sounds good but doesn't make much sense to me.

We have seen birfs busted.
We have seen drive flanges sheared.
We have seen R&P trashed.
We have seen F&R axles twisted and broken into pieces.

I don't think we have ever seen an 80-Series stock DS "break" like a fuse. Damaged, yes... from getting bent up and candy-caned on rocks and ledges but never shearing. I have seen posts of guys with failed unis but most of those were from lack of lubrication. I think a uni would break before a stock DS tube or slip yoke.

-B-

 

[Cruiserdrew]

I can see it both ways. I have ruined driveshafts several times on the trail and that sucks. But I have also heavily striped a heavy wall shaft, without other damage. The stock shaft would have beercanned in the same situation. On balance, I think the heavy wall is a price worth paying, as long as you don't go crazy and use 1/4 wall tubing. The guys that use receiver tubing and build super heavy shafts mostly get away with it, but I wouldn't feel real comfortable with that.

 

[619TOY]

Sounds good but doesn't make much sense to me.

-B-

I'm still buying into the theory. Rick twisted his driveshaft and didn't mention breaking anything else in his drivetrain. Case in point. Driveshaft damaged and nothing else. I'm not saying that I believe that sticking with "reasonble" thickness tubing will somehow miraculously protect everything else, just that it may not point out your next weakest link at a most inconvenient time.

Edit: The reason I'm pretty inclined to believe what this guy says is that he builds driveshafts for $500K race trucks regularly. If the people that are building that kind of truck trust him, he probably knows what he's talking about.

 

[Tools R Us]

When I had ours done, (don't remember the OD, .120" wall,) they gave two choices, Counter bore the tube to fit the yokes or turn the yokes to press into the new tube. We went with the turn the yokes, that way it will make it easier next time, just cut the old off and weld on new.

On the fuse thing; my failures have always been from rock contact, not stress/shock load breakage. When the muffler tube stock shaft touches rock it collapses, candy canes, bends, continuously retubing would get expensive, so don't see the fuse point? The .120 wall tube has a bunch of paint rubbed off, big scratches, etc from rock contact, but so far no dents, so happy with it.

 

[619TOY]

.

On the fuse thing; my failures have always been from rock contact, not stress/shock load breakage. When the muffler tube stock shaft touches rock it collapses, candy canes, bends, continuously retubing would get expensive, so don't see the fuse point?

In the end, it will obviously boil down to personal experience. I have been on my driveshaft many times but have never damaged one. I have seen broken axles and R&P's on the trail. Given the choice, I'd still rather swap a driveshaft rather than an axle (other than rear depending on where broken) or birf or pull a third member and limp home, even though I have pretty strong axles and R&P on my rig. It just gives me peace of mind, like a little insurance. I'm sure that had I ever tweaked one on a rock, my opinion might vary

 

[landtank]

I understand the fuse point but my problem was from rotating on a rock. It was like the rock creased the tube in a spiral.

I don't regularly jump my truck like the racers do so I don't think I'll get the kind of vertical impact they do. Also racers will likely error on a given easy part change many times over a certain race killer once in a great while.

I think for my application and others who wheel similarly the thicker tubing is a good mod.

While the size that I'm looking for is slightly thicker than .120 wall it does forgo machining the ends, at least that is what I'm told.

 

[FirstToy]

when i retubed w/ heavier gauge, the shop went up to .085 DOM so stock must be thinner than that.
he said he didn't go thicker b/c of rotating weight/balance. it's a drag on the drivetrain.
They are a reputable shop (carbon fiber shafts to huge work truck shafts). He also told me he couldn't sell me anything better than OEM Toyota u-joints.

 

[Nay]

I just carry a spare, it cost me $95. If I manage to do more than candy cane it I'll do a .120 wall.

If your driveline shop can't build you a .120 wall shaft, sourcing your own tube at a greater thickness sounds like a project that will never be balanced and will cost you a lot more than just ordering a new shaft. There is nothing, and I mean nothing, that will get under your skin faster than a driveshaft that doesn't work.

Call Slee.

 

[80t0ylc]

Along the same lines as previous post(#15), strengthing the DS's = more weight on the Xfer case output bearings and diff. pinyon bearings possibly above what they are speced from Toyota. Now, when you smack the beefed up drive line on an immovable object, not only will you do in the DS but possibly weaken or damage the bearings at either or both ends of the DS. Again, food for thought. Personally, I love the idea of a bulletproof rig, but I think the Toyota engineers deserve some credit. - Tom

 

[Dusty]

Call Slee.

ditto

rick you may save a couple hundred bucks doing it yourself and never get it right. your time is worth more. throw together an unbalanced thick wall monster to use as a back up and get a slee job with brand new joints

do the slee shafts use new yota joints?

And the whole "fuse" theory is flawed. no fuses

 

[-Spike-]

Never seen a driveshaft tube fail from excess torque on a trail. The fuse theory doesn't hold water with me. Both of my driveshafts are .120, put together by a local driveline shop. Neither vibrate. Both have contacted rocks and survived. The pinion and transfer case bearings can probably stand up to a lot more abuse than what they would see when the driveshaft hits the rocks. More than likely, if the driveshaft fails, those bearings are going to see a lot more abuse trying to turn a bent driveshaft into a rock than they would if the driveshaft holds its shape. That's my theory, anyway.

If you want a fuse, never engage low range. Your limited torque should keep you from damaging anything.

-Spike

 

[OGBeno]

I also subscribe to Steve's point of view.

Make the weakest link the easiest to take care of if/when it does go bad.

80 series shafts can be had at ~$50 a pop. I have 4 spares (2 front and 2 rear) that I now carry with me. 4 bolts and 4 nuts and you are ready to roll again.

Cheers.
-o-