Radiator discussion; specifically FJ60 (1 Viewer)

[Spook50]

I'm still using the CSF 2709 radiator in my H55F converted 62 and noticed yesterday that there seems to be a pinhole leak somewhere on it (saw coolant collecting in the lip of the lower tank while burping my system after replacing a bunch of hoses).

I do still have an OEM spec (I think also a CSF but can't remember for sure) 62 radiator in my garage, but it looks like having that re-cored might not be worth it compared to the cost of just getting a new radiator.

Looking up the CSF 2708 radiator (FJ60; no automatic tranny cooling loop, which I don't need) I noticed that it's on par price-wise with an aluminum unit sold by Cruiser Corps (curious who the manufacture is; I can bet it's not a Ron Davis, given the price). I don't really need "upgraded" cooling capacity, so what I'm looking for is longevity. I'm none too pleased with the fact that this CSF only lasted 6 years before a leak forming, which is why I'm looking into other options. I know aluminum can start to leak due to electrolysis if they're not properly bonded to a body ground, but given that, how has anyone's experience with any brand of aluminum or OEM spec FJ60 radiators out there?

 

[DFXR]

I don't know if Ron Davis is even making these for the 60 series anymore, but since you asked about any brand... I've had a RD in my 60 for about 13 years, no leaks or issues otherwise. It's grounded right off the top to a bare spot on the body, and I honestly have not touched that in ages. Using green coolant all these years, too.

It was one of the first things I did when I got the vehicle. It was expensive but comparable at the time with the OEM 60 unit, which was hard to find even then. So I sucked it up and got one, and it went in with a new Toyota WP and fan clutch.

The radiator is probably overkill for the 2F but I have no complaints. I think Ron Davis originally made them to go with V8 swaps.

Major caveat is that this is not my DD, and I don't wheel very hard anyway - think slow logging roads, not crawling. So the long-term vibrations and flexing that might crack an aluminum radiator are less of a variable for me. I have always worried more about stress cracks than electrolysis leaks.

 

[CaptHamster]

I just recently swapped out my old CSF radiator from my H55F'd FJ62 and put in a new Mishimoto unit. Mine had the same issue, developed a pinhole leak that turned into rot and I didn't catch it until it was pouring out coolant. That CSF unit was only about 5 years old also.

I haven't driven the 62 too much since the radiator swap but so far I'm impressed, I have noticed it seems to shed heat much quicker than the old brass radiator while driving (based purely on how quickly the tuned fan clutch cycles on then off relatively quickly). The fit and finish also looks great, the welds look nice and it was a direct fit bolt in. I also refreshed the radiator mounts as best I could so now I know it's mounted nice and stable. Additionally, Mishimoto has a lifetime warranty if purchased directly through them, which I'm sure I will be using at some point.

I did not install a bond / grounding strap on this radiator; I've read the same things you did about electrolysis but I'm waiting to see what happens. Let me know if you need any photos and I can run out and snap some pics when able.

 

[Spook50]

I just recently swapped out my old CSF radiator from my H55F'd FJ62 and put in a new Mishimoto unit. Mine had the same issue, developed a pinhole leak that turned into rot and I didn't catch it until it was pouring out coolant. That CSF unit was only about 5 years old also.

I haven't driven the 62 too much since the radiator swap but so far I'm impressed, I have noticed it seems to shed heat much quicker than the old brass radiator while driving (based purely on how quickly the tuned fan clutch cycles on then off relatively quickly). The fit and finish also looks great, the welds look nice and it was a direct fit bolt in. I also refreshed the radiator mounts as best I could so now I know it's mounted nice and stable. Additionally, Mishimoto has a lifetime warranty if purchased directly through them, which I'm sure I will be using at some point.

I did not install a bond / grounding strap on this radiator; I've read the same things you did about electrolysis but I'm waiting to see what happens. Let me know if you need any photos and I can run out and snap some pics when able.

Did you have any fitment issues with the Mishimoto? I had read one recent review on Summit that complained about difficulty mounting it, though I'm wondering if his got tweaked somehow in shipping, given the other damage the guy pointed out.

 

[Texascruisin]

I bought my Ls swapped in 2018 with a champion aluminum and have had no issues with it. I don’t know when it was installed before I got the rig, and I can’t see any extra ground straps. I would buy it again for a few hundred bucks.

 

[Skreddy]

Did you have any fitment issues with the Mishimoto? I had read one recent review on Summit that complained about difficulty mounting it, though I'm wondering if his got tweaked somehow in shipping, given the other damage the guy pointed out.

I put a mishimoto in my 87 60 last summer and had no fitment issues. Seems to cool very well even in the heat with AC on. I’ve got a small leak from an old hose I need to replace this week and even when it gets lower than I should let it on coolant, still cools well.

 

[CaptHamster]

Did you have any fitment issues with the Mishimoto? I had read one recent review on Summit that complained about difficulty mounting it, though I'm wondering if his got tweaked somehow in shipping, given the other damage the guy pointed out.

No fitment issues at all, holes were aligned correctly and hose inlet / outlet were all located correctly. I refreshed my rubber insulator mountings for the radiator which made everything a little tighter fitting when bolting it up, but it went together no problem. I did also make sure to check for any tweaking or damage from shipping and it checked out okay.

I was surprised, there's a bit of a gap between the radiator and the front crossbeam that goes just in front of the radiator; to my eye it almost seemed like the radiator is tipped backwards a bit but it could just be a trick of perspective. I do want to find some foam to fill the gap between the radiator and the crossbeam though.

 

[Spook50]

No fitment issues at all, holes were aligned correctly and hose inlet / outlet were all located correctly. I refreshed my rubber insulator mountings for the radiator which made everything a little tighter fitting when bolting it up, but it went together no problem. I did also make sure to check for any tweaking or damage from shipping and it checked out okay.

I was surprised, there's a bit of a gap between the radiator and the front crossbeam that goes just in front of the radiator; to my eye it almost seemed like the radiator is tipped backwards a bit but it could just be a trick of perspective. I do want to find some foam to fill the gap between the radiator and the crossbeam though.

Some foam would definitely be a good idea, moreso for the AC condenser so that the fan isn't just pulling air in through the gap between that and the radiator. I'm honestly surprised that it wouldn't come with foam already applied to it, but I imagine it wouldn't be difficult to find some open cell foam weatherstrip that would fill the gap just fine.

 

[toy_tek]

I've got some radiator discussion going on my Docu-series thread right now. My CSF has it's 3rd leak after 5-6 years. I'll drop it off at the shop tomorrow and see whats up.

For thread reference, I spoke with Ron Davis (the man) about a month ago... current quote for an FJ60 radiator is $1600 and no warranty.

Subscribed.

 

[OGBeno]

For thread reference, I spoke with Ron Davis (the man) about a month ago... current quote for an FJ60 radiator is $1600 and no warranty.

Wow.

 

[BurntToast]

I've got some radiator discussion going on my Docu-series thread right now. My CSF has it's 3rd leak after 5-6 years. I'll drop it off at the shop tomorrow and see whats up.

For thread reference, I spoke with Ron Davis (the man) about a month ago... current quote for an FJ60 radiator is $1600 and no warranty.

Subscribed.

FSR and Griffin are around $1000-1200 too

 

[Spook50]

Well hell, it looks like CSF has gone from the most viable OEM spec option to seriously sub par quality between this thread, my own experience, and other comments I've seen about them recently. I suspected a Ron Davis would be expensive, but DAMN (and no warranty at that price point is a HUGE red flag). For that money I'd rather put it towards a long range fuel tank (or a pair of good condition front fenders). So far from what I'm seeing it's looking like Mishimoto might be the better option to go with at this point, the lifetime warranty being the real selling point: 3-Row Performance Aluminum Radiator, fits Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 1981-1990 - https://www.mishimoto.com/toyota-land-cruiser-fj60-performance-aluminum-radiator-81-90.html

 

[toy_tek]

Well hell, it looks like CSF has gone from the most viable OEM spec option to seriously sub par quality between this thread, my own experience, and other comments I've seen about them recently. I suspected a Ron Davis would be expensive, but DAMN (and no warranty at that price point is a HUGE red flag). For that money I'd rather put it towards a long range fuel tank (or a pair of good condition front fenders). So far from what I'm seeing it's looking like Mishimoto might be the better option to go with at this point, the lifetime warranty being the real selling point: 3-Row Performance Aluminum Radiator, fits Toyota Land Cruiser FJ60 1981-1990 - https://www.mishimoto.com/toyota-land-cruiser-fj60-performance-aluminum-radiator-81-90.html

I looked at that pretty seriously about 6 weeks ago. I almost pulled the trigger... then I read their warranty manifesto.

Really not sure what the best option is. Could be different for each of us I suppose.

 

[Spook50]

I looked at that pretty seriously about 6 weeks ago. I almost pulled the trigger... then I read their warranty manifesto.

Really not sure what the best option is. Could be different for each of us I suppose.

Jeez you're not kidding. May as well not even have one at all with all those caveats.

Seems you're pretty much just hosed unless you have a competent radiator shop locally that can service whatever you have for a reasonable price (therein being the rub), be it a brass & copper unit or an aluminum.

 

[CruiserTrash]

My original radiator started leaking early this year and I put in a CSF. The price was right: I got a good deal on one that was 1 year old and pulled out for an LS swap. The more I read, the more worried I get.

What's the current thought on have an original rebuilt? Is that totally dependent on the skill level of the shop doing the work I imagine?

 

[OSS]

I’ll share my experience and comments that an old radiator shop guy told me:

My Experience:

The CSF radiator looks fantastic when brand new, but everything is really thin. The salesman at SOR warned me about that. “They’re not built like the originals”. The cooling fins are like paper and can corrode to a crumbling mess in a couple years if living near the beach. Mine did.

Within 3 years the cooling fins on mine were crumbling like old brittle tissue paper.

My original 25 year old Toyota radiator that I replaced with the CSF because it had a pinhole leak along the top tank, still had robust. intact cooling fins. It wasn’t crumbling at all.

The old radiator shop guy told me (when I first took my original in for repair) that when a radiator starts leaking in little spots (pinholes) it’s because the entire inside is corroding out. You may see just a few little leaks, but the thing is rotten inside. — and he repairs radiators. He said some radiators are too far gone to repair.

It’s doubtful a CSF could be repaired with any lasting results because it’s so fragile.
That CSF 2708 is built with the absolutely thinnest metal possible. And (in my experience) it doesn’t last long because of that if the air is corrosive.

 

[Spook50]

I’ll share my experience and comments that an old radiator shop guy told me:

My Experience:

The CSF radiator looks fantastic when brand new, but everything is really thin. The salesman at SOR warned me about that. “They’re not built like the originals”. The cooling fins are like paper and can corrode to a crumbling mess in a couple years if living near the beach. Mine did.

Within 3 years the cooling fins on mine were crumbling like old brittle tissue paper.

My original 25 year old Toyota radiator that I replaced with the CSF because it had a pinhole leak along the top tank, still had robust. intact cooling fins. It wasn’t crumbling at all.

The old radiator shop guy told me (when I first took my original in for repair) that when a radiator starts leaking in little spots (pinholes) it’s because the entire inside is corroding out. You may see just a few little leaks, but the thing is rotten inside. — and he repairs radiators. He said some radiators are too far gone to repair.

It’s doubtful a CSF could be repaired with any lasting results because it’s so fragile.
That CSF 2708 is built with the absolutely thinnest metal possible. And (in my experience) it doesn’t last long because of that if the air is corrosive.

Well there's another strike against the CSF.

So at this point it looks like CSF = poor quality overall; Mishimoto = tons of red tape with the warranty (but haven't seen much yet to speak either direction about their quality); Ron Davis = ungodly expensive and NO warranty

A quick look on Summit came up with Griffin aluminum radiators at just over $900: Griffin ExactFit Radiator Details for - 1987 Toyota Land Cruiser PartNumber: TOY-00011 - https://www.griffinrad.com/load_details3.php?PartID=25&year=1987&make=Toyota&model=Land%20Cruiser&select_Main_Group=&select_Sub_Group=&select_Sub_Group_model=&select_Sub_Group_Engine=&select_Sub_Group_HorsePower=&key_id=TOY-00011
Haven't done any research on these yet, and they're definitely pricey but at least not as bad as the Ron Davis units.

Cruiser Corps also sells an aluminum radiator but like I said in my first post, no idea who manufactures it or of the quality of the build.

 

[CruiserTrash]

@OSS To extrapolate from what you’re saying: don’t rebuild an original that has a leak because it isn’t worth it?

 

[Spike Strip]

I have the CSF 2206, the FJ60 specific model that's now discontinued, for going on 15 years now. No issues, but I think CSF may have been sold a few years ago.

I've got some radiator discussion going on my Docu-series thread right now. My CSF has it's 3rd leak after 5-6 years. I'll drop it off at the shop tomorrow and see whats up.

For thread reference, I spoke with Ron Davis (the man) about a month ago... current quote for an FJ60 radiator is $1600 and no warranty.

Subscribed.

Double. Wow. For that you could probably have a 4-core brass radiator made custom. Mark A. Once said he has a shop that can build HD LC radiator. Don't know if that's still an option.

FWIW, I'm currently in Phoenix for the 4th July week and it's crazy hot and I've been having radiators on my mind.

 

[OSS]

@OSS To extrapolate from what you’re saying: don’t rebuild an original that has a leak because it isn’t worth it?

I don’t know if a generalization can accurately be extrapolated from my experience.
Maybe my CSF was a dud? Spike has had good results with his.

My thought — if an old school radiator shop was nearby, it wouldn’t cost much to take in the tired original old radiator and ask (the guy who looks experienced) if they could examine the insides to determine if a repair would be advisable.
When they desolder the top cap & take it off, they’ve got a pretty good view of what’s going on inside. And when they jamb a rod down each of the vertical cooling pipes (to “rod it out “) they can feel if it seems to be ok..

Another way to look at this radiator dilemma is the same way we have to look at all aftermarket parts for FJ60 — they’re disposable and will require more frequent replacement.

The CSF is relatively inexpensive compared to other options, so maybe we just need to wrap our heads around the idea that its a wear item (like tires) that will need to be replaced more frequently.