Quick Poll: LC 200-What Octane Do You Use?

[jamesg]

In Colorado, regular is 85, middle is 87, premium is 91. There is a fuel station at Sante Fe and Quincy that sells unleaded 100 octane, and leaded 110 octane race gas which I use in my chain saw, my log splitter, and my trusty John Deere snow blower. I love the leaded fuel in these machines Buy the way, I've used the unleaded 100 octane in my 80 did see a "seat of the pants difference" and a modest increase in my mileage; I live at 8120ft.

 

[ceb]

On the LX, 91 is recommended. This is stated in both the owner's manual and printed at the gas receptacle on the vehicle.

Why? Is this considered a high performance vehicle? If so, why is the LC different?

I have been running 91 since it is recommended by Lexus and under warranty, but will be switching to 87 and pocketing the difference.

In reality, I'd suspect that most LCs are driven harder than the LX, so in theory, the LCs "might" actually get some use out of the extra octane if one listens to some of the opinions - but a lowly Toyota can't need better gas than the Lexus and Lexus owners have more money so they get tagged.

My recommendation, try a few tanks of the "other stuff" (87 if you're currently using 91 or 91 if you're using 87) and see if you can tell a difference. If your SO drives the car, then tank it up without telling them and then casually ask "honey, did you notice any difference in the car, I tanked it up with a different gas" and see what they say. I'd bet it'll be "I can't tell a difference"

 

[Romer]

I go mid grade on even my 40 because they use to have better cleaners for the fuel injectors. That is the only reason I use mid grade

 

[ceb]

I go mid grade on even my 40 because they use to have better cleaners for the fuel injectors. That is the only reason I use mid grade

And somebody didn't watch the video. All grades of gas have the same additives.

 

[Celt Horseman]

I run either 89 or 87 here in California, and for the most part there is no difference. The one thing that I have noticed by tracking my mileage for work (and MPG because I am anal that way); running 87 I average around 14.7 MPG, and on 89 I average around 15.6. I am not sure if it because of more or less highway miles that week or because of the different fuel. For the most part I just feel a better about running 89 than 87.

 

[purdytj]

Yes they would fit.

In reality, I'd suspect that most LCs are driven harder than the LX, so in theory, the LCs "might" actually get some use out of the extra octane if one listens to some of the opinions - but a lowly Toyota can't need better gas than the Lexus and Lexus owners have more money so they get tagged.

My recommendation, try a few tanks of the "other stuff" (87 if you're currently using 91 or 91 if you're using 87) and see if you can tell a difference. If your SO drives the car, then tank it up without telling them and then casually ask "honey, did you notice any difference in the car, I tanked it up with a different gas" and see what they say. I'd bet it'll be "I can't tell a difference"

I also have the LX570 and have been using the 91 from Costco. They have "top tier" gasoline. I'm going for longevity and feel a bit worried about doing something other than what the manufacturer recommends.

Do the LX and LC have different compression ratios? It doesn't make sense to me that if it is the "same" powertrain that LX and LC fuel requirements would be different.

 

[Markuson]

I also have the LX570 and have been using the 91 from Costco. They have "top tier" gasoline. I'm going for longevity and feel a bit worried about doing something other than what the manufacturer recommends.

Do the LX and LC have different compression ratios? It doesn't make sense to me that if it is the "same" powertrain that LX and LC fuel requirements would be different.

My most trusted Toyota service manager who has been 100% honest with me for 16 years (sending me to cheaper service guys he knows when he thinks Toyota is overpricing stuff) told me that as long as you use main-stream stations (Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Costco, BP, etc.), you are going to get exactly what you need with 87, and normally will see zero benefit from 91.

I can't imagine that the 5.7 V8 used in both vehicles is different at all. He said he knew of no such difference, and they are a huge dealer with an excellent service department.

It seems that the skeptics...users here...service reps and more are all pointing to the same thing: Premium's prime function is to get as much cash out of us as possible and little (if anything) more.

Maybe after a month of 87, something terrible will happen and I'll re-think...but I'm gonna follow where the evidence points.

 

[purdytj]

My most trusted Toyota service manager who has been 100% honest with me for 16 years (sending me to cheaper service guys he knows when he thinks Toyota is overpricing stuff) told me that as long as you use main-stream stations (Shell, Chevron, Mobil, Costco, BP, etc.), you are going to get exactly what you need with 87, and normally will see zero benefit from 91.

I can't imagine that the 5.7 V8 used in both vehicles is different at all. He said he knew of no such difference, and they are a huge dealer with an excellent service department.

It seems that the skeptics...users here...service reps and more are all pointing to the same thing: Premium's prime function is to get as much cash out of us as possible and little (if anything) more.

Maybe after a month of 87, something terrible will happen and I'll re-think...but I'm gonna follow where the evidence points.

Thanks for that information.
I found the video not that helpful for those manufacturers that "require" higher octane. Even the Corvette in the video "recommends" higher octane but does not necessarily require it.

I've also been putting higher octane into my '09 Subaru WRX (turbocharged) for 7 years (we bought it new) because that was the manufacturer's required octane. :-/

 

[purdytj]

Also if note, I'd like to get 300,000 miles out of our LX. We bought it with 109,000 about a month ago. What are the long term consequences of knock if we start to notice something?

I feel ridiculous for throwing our money away, but it isn't waste to me if we're increasing longevity by doing what the manufacturer requires.

 

[purdytj]

Here is what the manual says. Hmm... who to trust?

 

[Markuson]

Here is what the manual says. Hmm... who to trust?

View attachment 1275364

View attachment 1275365

You just jogged my memory in that I recall my Toyota guy mentioning knock (which is mentioned in your manual).
-No persistent engine knock? Then nothing to worry about. Heck, even Lexus says some knocking is normal when accelerating or going uphill... In other words...if it's not knocking regularly...then regular is OK.

Maybe an additional question on the Survey should have been...
"For those using less than 91 (87 or 89), have you noticed engine knocking? Yes... No..."

 

[Markuson]

OK. So if this wasn't confusing enough...

Looks this verbiage the 200 manual says on BOTH pages that refer to fuel type.

It says 87...then adds in brackets, "Research Octane Number 91" on both pages.

This refers to RON...which is apparently a different numbering system?

 

[Chocolate]

I will add my perspective.

I bought my 2013 LX570 last month. After using Premium for 6 years in my ES 330, I was looking forward to at least being able to use Regular to minimize cost difference. After 29,000 miles of what was almost certainly premium (prev owner ordered every option except Radar Cruise) I drove it back with Regular (all dealers fill with Regular).

Another fillup with 87 later, 0-60 test with 87 octane has the truck shift into 2nd at 5k RPM at WOT. With 93 Octane in Maryland, it revs to ~5600 RPM before upshifting to 2nd gear. All other gearchanges are about the same revs. With the way I drive and the marginal boost in MPG, I will pay the extra ~500 a year for premium, but it is of course perfectly safe to use regular as the engine can run on either. This is just an anecdotal reference and a truck from a different year may have different results.

 

[codyaustin5]

As posted above for Colorado I use mid grade 87 and haven't experienced any issues. Being at altitude has it benefits I think? Other than losing HP. Those CA 200s are much faster than the CO 200s!

 

[Romer]

And somebody didn't watch the video. All grades of gas have the same additives.

Good video, but conflicts with other stuff.

How about this, the manual says 87 octane and mid grade in Colorado is 87

 

[ceb]

Also if note, I'd like to get 300,000 miles out of our LX. We bought it with 109,000 about a month ago. What are the long term consequences of knock if we start to notice something?

I feel ridiculous for throwing our money away, but it isn't waste to me if we're increasing longevity by doing what the manufacturer requires.

If your engine is pinging then try a higher octane.

The ONLY difference between regular and premium is the octane rating and cost.

Pre-ignition (pinging) can be avoided in two ways - increasing the octane rating or retarding timing.

If an engine is designed for regular gas and that engine has no faults that have increased compression that leads to pre-ignition, then there is ZERO benefit in using a higher octane gasoline. There isn't anything to "adjust".

The ECU will adjust for the use of lower octane gas (to a point) if a manufacturer "recommends" a higher grade.

The case of the LC/LX is interesting and we need to ask ourselves a few questions:

Why does the LX "recommend" premium? Does it actually bring a benefit or is it a marketing ploy to fool consumers - the LX is premium so it must use a premium gas.

Why does the LC require regular? Is it because the Toyota is more mainstream and Toyota has decided that all Toyotas use regular gas? Would the LC actually benefit from higher octane (even though we know that any difference doesn't make sense financially)?

Are the two engines the same (I think they are)? are the rated outputs the same? If the LX output is higher than that of the LC then the 89 octane rating of the LC may be a marketing ploy. If, OTOH, the ratings are the same, then it goes back to my first point - LX is premium so it should use premium gas.

Bottom line - assuming there is no pinging - aside from a very modest bump in power and a very tiny bump in mpgs, there is no reason to use a higher octane rating - it isn't "better" for your engine and your car won't "last longer."

 

[dukmon]

This thread.


Good lord.

 

[ceb]

OK. So if this wasn't confusing enough...

Looks what confusing verbiage the 200 manual says on BOTH pages that refer to fuel type.

It says 87...then adds in [] brackets, "Research Octane Number 91" on both pages.

This refers to RON...which is apparently a different numbering system? -As if it wasn't confusing enough!

View attachment 1275385

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Yep. They try to make it confusing. The US and Canada use AKI as the "octane number" while the rest of the world uses RON. It is a different way of measuring octane and one has nothing to do with the other - think imperial and metric systems.

From Wiki:

Research Octane Number (RON)
The most common type of octane rating worldwide is the Research Octane Number (RON). RON is determined by running the fuel in a test engine with a variable compression ratio under controlled conditions, and comparing the results with those for mixtures of iso-octane and n-heptane.

Motor Octane Number (MON)
Another type of octane rating, called Motor Octane Number (MON), is determined at 900 rpm engine speed instead of the 600 rpm for RON.[1] MON testing uses a similar test engine to that used in RON testing, but with a preheated fuel mixture, higher engine speed, and variable ignition timing to further stress the fuel's knock resistance. Depending on the composition of the fuel, the MON of a modern pump gasoline will be about 8 to 12 octane lower than the RON, but there is no direct link between RON and MON. Pump gasoline specifications typically require both a minimum RON and a minimum MON.[citation needed]

Anti-Knock Index (AKI) or (R+M)/2
In most countries, including Australia, New Zealand and all of those in Europe,[citation needed] the "headline" octane rating shown on the pump is the RON, but in Canada, the United States, Brazil, and some other countries, the headline number is the average of the RON and the MON, called the Anti-Knock Index (AKI), and often written on pumps as (R+M)/2). It may also sometimes be called the Posted Octane Number (PON).

 

[ceb]

As posted above for Colorado I use mid grade 87 and haven't experienced any issues. Being at altitude has it benefits I think? Other than losing HP. Those CA 200s are much faster than the CO 200s!

Your engine will happily drink 85 at high altitudes.

 

[Hothonda]

My mileage hovers around 15-16 in mixed.

Best I've ever seen 18.5