Pump Carnage Thread

[drujba]

Two-stroke Oil, Stanadyne Lubricity Formula, Non-Synthetic ATF, Marvel Mystery Oil. The usual suspects.

Todays diesel is not as "oily" as it used to be when this stuff was designed. Current Diesel is very 'dry'
Adding a bit of lube to the fuel really helps restore the lubricity to make parts that are in constant moving contact last a lot longer, and operate efficiently.

For example, the needle in a injector nozzle has about a millionth of an inch of clearance. You want that clearance to be well lubricated. The same is true with the pumping Head and Rotor in a rotary pump, and Element (Plunger and Barrel) assembly in an Inline pump.

Excellent topic!
Same problem with the diesel fuel in Europe, it is designed for modern common rail engines that need less viscous fuel in order to be able to pulverise it in smaller drops. But for older engines this results in less injection pressure, so actually the modern diesel fuel is worst for older engines.
I always add 1/2 litre of two-stroke oil in a full tank.
Moreover, as the diesel fuel price is sometimes higher than sunflower oil price, during summer time I am using sunflower oil for fuel. But only when the outside temperature is at least 25*C (80*F?), otherwise the sunflower oil leaves wax residues inside the fuel lines.


L.E. A bit of a narrative story, but it's related to the thread:

About 5 years ago I had the chance to make a direct and immediate comparison of the "old" and "new" fuel. How was that possible? With a group of friends made a trip in Tunisia, to visit the places where original George's Lucas Star Wars was filmed and of course try our rigs in the Saharan dunes. We were all in all 7 vehicles.
We drove to Genova in Italy, filling diesel from the gas stations on the way. At that time the diesel in Europe was at it's most expensive level, in Italy 1 litre was 2 EURO . Imagine paying $8,50 for a gallon...
I don't know how, but during one of our stops in Slovenia, somebody launched a rumour that the diesel in Tunisia is terrible and we shall be very careful about where we fill up our tanks. Before embarking on the ferry at Genova I spent 100 EUR to fill up 50 litres of diesel. My wallet and I were so traumatised about this, I still remember that 5 years later...
Anyway, 27 hours after embarking, we landed in Tunis and drove south towards Sfax. The Star Wars set was nearby a city called Tataouine, by the way. Does this ring a bell for any of the Star Wars old school fans?
At some moment we had to refill our tanks, so we looked for the cleanest and newest Shell gas station we were able to spot and filled our tanks there. We spent here the equivalent of 0,55 EURO / litre, so we felt like the bear at the hive.
About 20 km after leaving that Shell, on our CB's started a conversation about if anyone noticed a significant improvement of their engine performance and how good this Shell diesel was. This was for real, our cars were doing much better with the Tunisian diesel. Engines were running smoother and in deed more powerful. At that time I had a 1995 KZJ78, so the 1KZ-TE 3.0 litre turbodiesel engine. Next day we refilled our tanks in a local gas station. As a result, our engines were doing even better. Actually the best performances I've had with my TOY, was with diesel smuggled from Lybia, that we bought for the equivalent of 0,30 EUR / litre, in the desert, from some nomads...
This fuel was in deed more "oily" and smelled very different from the diesel fuel we have in Europe. I remember it smelled the same behind the bus I took for school in the early 90's. Something more like heating oil rather than modern diesel fuel.

 

[ForealBoreal]

What do you recommend for new common rail engines?

I religiously ran 2 stroke oil with my cruisers. I’ll continue to do so.

 

[doug720]

I add 2 stroke oil to my 4BD2 swap and my other diesels, and have done so for many years.

In addition to lubing the pump, I think it helps keep the seals and o-rings pliable. The new "Dry" fuel is hard on all rubber parts, including fuel lines.

On my boat, I switched out all the rubber fuel lines after a Coast Guard inspection where they told me of the ULSD melting the older rubber formulations. New rubber fuel line, at least in the US, is marked as ULSD approved.

For old school mechanical diesels, one can buy 2 stroke oil that is fairly inexpensive, as we are looking for added fuel lubrication for the pump, not so much as as piston and bearing lube with clean combustion that a 2 stroke engine needs.

Newer common rail engines can be particular about additives. One needs to check to see what is approved by the manufacturer, and/or a trusted diesel injection specialist.

 

[Greg_B]

Excellent thread, photos and information.

In Canada all fuel is required federally to have 2% renewable fuel content. Biodiesel comes back as one of the best for lubricity. Not sure about regulations in the USA. https://www.ec.gc.ca/energie-energy/default.asp?lang=En&n=828C9342-1

Even with 2% biofuel content I still run an additive every tank, with Diesel Services 4+ being the snake oil of choice just now.

Here's a link to one comparison study of additives that while dated, might still be relevant datapoints: Lubricity Additive Study Results - Diesel Place : Chevrolet and GMC Diesel Truck Forums

Not sure what is available now for independent studies as I've not looked in a long while, since this thread: Store Bought Diesel Additive vs 2 Stroke Engine Oil

Again, its great to see the guts of these pumps and bench tech info! Thanks.

hth's
gb

 

[hj 60]

Thanks for the info, drujba I think you had red diesel, I used it to in morocco/sahara and later got a 500 euro fine in belgium when they tested fuel color and chemistry, did not want to fight a uniform, was funny how happy they were like any policeman giving a ticket.
It was just after muslim attacks when borders were closed and I was driving with 4 loaded and pressurized paintball markers (very stupid but to lazy to take it apart), one policeman radio'd the other ans asked: what is in the crates on his roof?, lol don't check the rear seat please...

I add sunflower oil, 1 liter or more you can hear the difference but in winter it can freeze so better to use 2 stroke all year.

Is there any other maintenance you advice, I can not do anything? like valve adjustment or stuff possible on an engine?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Emissions regs have also required the removal of almost all sulfur from the fuel which has lubricity properties I believe. Add in the fact that these pumps were engineered in the 70's or even earlier when diesel was less thin as the OP said. Hence the 2-stroke oil to help out the pump and injectors

Oil companies began adding substitute lubricants after the sulphur was removed. It wasnt sulphur that lubricated the pump, but when they removed the sulphur they couldnt help other lubricants from going with it.
I use bio diesel when I see it

 

[yotahed]

What do you recommend for new common rail engines?

I religiously ran 2 stroke oil with my cruisers. I’ll continue to do so.

For Common Rail, the stanadyne lubricity or performance formula is great. I usually recommend bouncing back and forth between the two regularly.

 

[yotahed]

Oil companies began adding substitute lubricants after the sulphur was removed. It wasnt sulphur that lubricated the pump, but when they removed the sulphur they couldnt help other lubricants from going with it.
I use bio diesel when I see it

Bio is good when premixed with regular fuel.
Its not recommended to use on its own.

Lots of guys swear up, down, left and right in favor of bio and veg oil. I've seen a ton of problems and destroyed parts from its use however.

Alternative fuel junkies are better off using a centrifuge to clean WMO and mix with around 30-40% diesel. Much better combo.

Guys don't tend to like it when they spend a pile of cash on a switchable veg system, and I tell them their pump and injectors are destroyed because of it.
The cost savings are pretty much eaten through when you are rebuilding your injection system every other year, or get a bad batch of fuel...

But go ahead and try it. Keeps me busy

I'll see if I can track down some pictures of examples of this.

 

[yotahed]

Is there any other maintenance you advice, I can not do anything? like valve adjustment or stuff possible on an engine?

On my two old pushrod engines, I check the valves once a year., keep the fuel filters changed with every other oil change, and I run a second aftermarket fuel filter in tandem with the factory setup.

I would like to add a centrifuge to the oiling system, cant seem to track down a decent affordable kit. Anyone have any source on this?
My Nissans blacken the oil instantly....

 

[yotahed]

Here is a 1HDT Cam Disk that has just begun to dig into the case hardening on the inner portion of the lobe.
The roller has a matching mark(not shown) on the inner contact face.

I recommended to the customer that both the rollers and disk should be replaced.

 

[mudgudgeon]

Here is the all-too-common 1HDT cam disk wear and pitting from Mr rust.

View attachment 1853065

Rust particles in the fuel? Or water in the fuel causing rust?

 

[roscoFJ73]

Bio is good when premixed with regular fuel.
Its not recommended to use on its own

Australian Bio diesel is 10% bio

 

[mudgudgeon]

On my two old pushrod engines, I check the valves once a year., keep the fuel filters changed with every other oil change, and I run a second aftermarket fuel filter in tandem with the factory setup.

I would like to add a centrifuge to the oiling system, cant seem to track down a decent affordable kit. Anyone have any source on this?
My Nissans blacken the oil instantly....

I believe Landrover Defender with Isuzu diesels had centrifugal oil cleaner.
@Dougal may know

 

[yotahed]

Rust particles in the fuel? Or water in the fuel causing rust?

Sitting with water in the fuel for long periods. See this often with low km imported diesels of all makes.

 

[asutherland]

Customer = me

Got my full rebuilt shiny pump back from Jon today. He even drove part way to meet me. Couldnt be happier. Thank you sir!

I'm putting it back into the lx450 tomorrow.

Ps. The cracked boot on the shut of solenoid is "lead wire, shut off solenoid" for which I had shipped from Partsouq for $4 USD along with some other random seals I needed for other stuff.

 

[yotahed]

Thumbs up!!

 

[Prairie Swamp]

This thread reminds me how awesome the Bosch VE/Denso pump is. Been years since I've taken a VW pump apart. Like it was engineered by space aliens. It does so much and does it well. It's like a mechanical computer.

 

[yotahed]

Very robust compared to other popular fuel delivery systems at the time. Very low failure rate compared with Stanadyne and Delphi pumps of the same vintage.

 

[gerg]

What were the best years for vw pumps?

 

[yotahed]

VE's are all very much the same in their construction.
The early VW ones only had a 8 or 9 mm plunger, so the wear and fatigue factor was pretty low. Fuel delivery was around 35CC as opposed to 75CC-100CC on the larger cruiser engines,
Also VW IDI (all IDI for that matter) used slower injection and lower pressures.
I still see VW pumps come in from the early 80s that have never been opened...