Pulling pretty hard to right

[bwiygul]

94 Fzj-
Pulling to the right. Changed calipers because right side only were prettymuch gone and thought it was drag.
No change

Took into get alignment and everything is good there.

Swapped wheels/tires left to right in case it was a radial pull.

Still the same. My hand has to be at 10 o’clock to keep the truck straight.

No accidents so can’t imagine it’s a frame tweak or anything.

All tre’s and Bal joints and bearings are good.

Where should I go from here? Thanks!

 

[bwiygul]

Also this is all the time. Not only under acceleration or braking. Full time.

 

[BILT4ME]

Is it a RIGHT REAR caliper that's hanging up?

 

[bwiygul]

Is it a RIGHT REAR caliper that's hanging up?

I’m guessing not. The mechanic didn’t say anything and neither did the brake shop that changed em or the tire/brake/alignment shop.

 

[BILT4ME]

OK, let's look at what items WILL cause a pull to the right:
1) Low tire pressure on RF or RR
2) Misalignment on the front wheels, causing the steering to have to be corrected back to the left.
3) Dragging RF caliper
4) Dragging RR caliper
5) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RF.
6) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RR.
7) Track Bar bushings gone / broken / failed

If the pull only occurred during braking, then I would say it could be one side dragging OR the opposite side not working. Since it is pulling ALL the time, then it limits it to those items that are always in service.

Tires
Brakes
Wheel bearings

If you think your mechanic is a whiz-bang and got it right, then you have covered items 1, 2, 3, 4, 7.

The only things remaining are wheel bearings. Any competent mechanic should have figured it out before giving it back to you and just throwing parts at it. Did he not test-drive it after doing the brakes?

Gotta go through the problem solving / troubleshooting tree here.

Identify the problem
Possible causes of the problem
Possible solutions

Start at the simplest, no-cost solutions
Then next level of inspection
Then throw money at it until you have a new truck.

 

[bwiygul]

OK, let's look at what items WILL cause a pull to the right:
1) Low tire pressure on RF or RR
2) Misalignment on the front wheels, causing the steering to have to be corrected back to the left.
3) Dragging RF caliper
4) Dragging RR caliper
5) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RF.
6) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RR.
7) Track Bar bushings gone / broken / failed

If the pull only occurred during braking, then I would say it could be one side dragging OR the opposite side not working. Since it is pulling ALL the time, then it limits it to those items that are always in service.

Tires
Brakes
Wheel bearings

If you think your mechanic is a whiz-bang and got it right, then you have covered items 1, 2, 3, 4, 7.

The only things remaining are wheel bearings. Any competent mechanic should have figured it out before giving it back to you and just throwing parts at it. Did he not test-drive it after doing the brakes?

Gotta go through the problem solving / troubleshooting tree here.

Identify the problem
Possible causes of the problem
Possible solutions

Start at the simplest, no-cost solutions
Then next level of inspection
Then throw money at it until you have a new tru

OK, let's look at what items WILL cause a pull to the right:
1) Low tire pressure on RF or RR
2) Misalignment on the front wheels, causing the steering to have to be corrected back to the left.
3) Dragging RF caliper
4) Dragging RR caliper
5) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RF.
6) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RR.
7) Track Bar bushings gone / broken / failed

If the pull only occurred during braking, then I would say it could be one side dragging OR the opposite side not working. Since it is pulling ALL the time, then it limits it to those items that are always in service.

Tires
Brakes
Wheel bearings

If you think your mechanic is a whiz-bang and got it right, then you have covered items 1, 2, 3, 4, 7.

The only things remaining are wheel bearings. Any competent mechanic should have figured it out before giving it back to you and just throwing parts at it. Did he not test-drive it after doing the brakes?

Gotta go through the problem solving / troubleshooting tree here.

Identify the problem
Possible causes of the problem
Possible solutions

Start at the simplest, no-cost solutions
Then next level of inspection
Then throw money at it until you have a new truck.

Thanks man! I’ll throw it up tomorrow and check how the wheels spin. If they feel good....
I guess I’ll start with bushings. Thanks. Just hoping it wasn’t going to be steering pumps or stuff like that.

 

[bwiygul]

OK, let's look at what items WILL cause a pull to the right:
1) Low tire pressure on RF or RR
2) Misalignment on the front wheels, causing the steering to have to be corrected back to the left.
3) Dragging RF caliper
4) Dragging RR caliper
5) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RF.
6) Bad / mal-adjusted wheel bearings on RR.
7) Track Bar bushings gone / broken / failed

If the pull only occurred during braking, then I would say it could be one side dragging OR the opposite side not working. Since it is pulling ALL the time, then it limits it to those items that are always in service.

Tires
Brakes
Wheel bearings

If you think your mechanic is a whiz-bang and got it right, then you have covered items 1, 2, 3, 4, 7.

The only things remaining are wheel bearings. Any competent mechanic should have figured it out before giving it back to you and just throwing parts at it. Did he not test-drive it after doing the brakes?

Gotta go through the problem solving / troubleshooting tree here.

Identify the problem
Possible causes of the problem
Possible solutions

Start at the simplest, no-cost solutions
Then next level of inspection
Then throw money at it until you have a new truck.

Would the track bar bushings just be a visual inspection.

Should all of the wheels just turn easily?

Is it possible to be an AWD system problem?

 

[decoco]

alignment shops... most suck.

 

[bwiygul]

alignment shops... most suck.

Lol. I agree but I don’t have the skill set to do it by hand. I’ll probably go to another one too.

 

[bwiygul]

So I’m curious, the shop that did the brakes, i did have it pulling before the job, is there a chance that one side is being over tightened or a shim is missing or something?

It’s just that everything looks good so far so I’m wondering if there could
Be something like that
Causing the problem. I read about the preload and stuff when doing bearings and since I’ve not done em on this truck before, is there something maybe the shop or a previous shop or PO may have missed before.

Basically, is there a less obvious possibility I’m over looking?

I’m an aviation guy so I get the troubleshooting tree concept and procedure. It’s just that I’ve looked at the obvious stuff and it’s checkin out. Gonna check a couple other things tomorrow but just trying to add to my list of maybe “not as likely’ options.

 

[BILT4ME]

The alignment should have seen the track bar bushings by being a 4 wheel alignment so the truck is "crabwalking" down the road.

Many shops SUCK on actual diagnosis. They are a replace parts until you're blue in the face type place, without any actual THOUGHT about what they're doing.

This honestly sounds like a stuck caliper or a brake hose that is possibly restricting the back-flow.

I have a rear caliper that's hanging and every time I stomp the brakes, it jerks to the right. If I apply evenly, then there is no noticeable effect.

There is controversy on how to "properly" adjust a set of front wheel bearings.

The guy to follow on this is @Tools R Us . Look up his posts.

Do you have any lift, big tires, or any mods to the truck?

If you let go of the steering wheel does it ACTUALLY pull to the right or is that where the steering wheel is CENTERED?

 

[bwiygul]

The alignment should have seen the track bar bushings by being a 4 wheel alignment so the truck is "crabwalking" down the road.

Many shops SUCK on actual diagnosis. They are a replace parts until you're blue in the face type place, without any actual THOUGHT about what they're doing.

This honestly sounds like a stuck caliper or a brake hose that is possibly restricting the back-flow.

I have a rear caliper that's hanging and every time I stomp the brakes, it jerks to the right. If I apply evenly, then there is no noticeable effect.

There is controversy on how to "properly" adjust a set of front wheel bearings.

The guy to follow on this is @Tools R Us . Look up his posts.

Do you have any lift, big tires, or any mods to the truck?

If you let go of the steering wheel does it ACTUALLY pull to the right or is that where the steering wheel is CENTERED?

I’m with you on shops. I’m typically a do it myself guy too. I have a 74 getting a frame off right now. But I don’t have time right now so I took it in. But I haven’t seen this before. I’m wondering what they did with my bearings. Over tightened maybe?

Illl check the rear brakes better tomorrow.

Never checked the rears personally.

Yes, I hold the wheel at 10 and if I let go going down the road it will put me in the ditch pretty quickly.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If you think your mechanic is a whiz-bang and got it right, then you have no need to seek help on mud.

Fixed for you.

@bwiygul

I think it's highly unlikely they have over tightened wheel bearings to the point that it would cause a strong pull on the steering.

How does the truck steer in general? Is it smooth? Equal effort in both directions?

A couple more things to ad to bilt4me list
- trunion bearings. I had a reaally funky steering feel develop on my HZJ105 due to seized trunion bearings. steering action was definitely not the same in both directions

- check the steering damper is operating smoothly in both directions. Even temporarily remove it and go for a drive to eliminate or confirm it as an issue


Wheel alignment is pretty basic on these. Any mechanic who can't set toe in correctly is not worth feeding.
Beyond toe in, and centering the steering box, there's no adjustment available without things like caster correction bushes, or offset trunion bearings etc

In my experience, 80s can drive with generally good manners with bushings in an atrocious state. If bushings are so bad that they are causing a constant pull, this should be fairly obvious with a visual inspection.
Use a pry bar to torque the track rod etc at the bush eyes to see if bushings show splits or cracks

 

[shocktower]

alignment shops... most suck.

Must be a Canadian thing , Hey suzie I am going to the Eh-lignment shop

 

[mudgudgeon]

It wouldn't hurt to cast an eye over the steering box sector shaft.
Your looking to see if the shaft is twisted, this shows up as diagonal, or twisted splines between the steering box, and Pittman arm (the splines should be straight)spline.
This could explain the steering wheel being at 10 o'clock, but doesn't explain the constant pull

 

[Tools R Us]

alignment shops... most suck.

Yep, alignment "techs" are often one step from the floor sweeper and maybe the same guy?

... My hand has to be at 10 o’clock to keep the truck straight.
...

Case in point. When a proper alignment is done, the steering wheel should be centered when driving, in our case, done with a drag link adjustment. Centered would be 12 o'clock, not 10.

To cause enough drag to pull a 2.5 ton rig off center, a bearing or brake will produce significant heat, like hundreds of degrees. A good tech would go on a highway speed test drive, stop, measure hub/rotor temps, looking for one that is much hotter, like smoking, smelly, hot. If not, what is the point of replacing calipers?

Straight axle is way old school, pretty much dead simple, a good alignement can be done with rudimentary tools and simple knowledge. But see them screwed up, often. They are not very civilized, tend to climb or fall off of road crown, etc, so some pull is normal.

Can't see, haven't driven, don't know the history of the rig, so is it a real pull or the wheel not properly centered? Pull can be caused by bad arm bushings, front or rear axle, bent arms front or rear, etc, but one would expect this would be found in the inspection that should be part of the alignment job?

 

[decoco]

Lol. I agree but I don’t have the skill set to do it by hand. I’ll probably go to another one too.

don't bother I've been down that path with an issue I have with my 77

 

[bwiygul]

Yep, alignment "techs" are often one step from the floor sweeper and maybe the same guy?



Case in point. When a proper alignment is done, the steering wheel should be centered when driving, in our case, done with a drag link adjustment. Centered would be 12 o'clock, not 10.

To cause enough drag to pull a 2.5 ton rig off center, a bearing or brake will produce significant heat, like hundreds of degrees. A good tech would go on a highway speed test drive, stop, measure hub/rotor temps, looking for one that is much hotter, like smoking, smelly, hot. If not, what is the point of replacing calipers?

Straight axle is way old school, pretty much dead simple, a good alignement can be done with rudimentary tools and simple knowledge. But see them screwed up, often. They are not very civilized, tend to climb or fall off of road crown, etc, so some pull is normal.

Can't see, haven't driven, don't know the history of the rig, so is it a real pull or the wheel not properly centered? Pull can be caused by bad arm bushings, front or rear axle, bent arms front or rear, etc, but one would expect this would be found in the inspection that should be part of the alignment job?

Yeah that’s why I’m stumped. The heat on the wheels is pretty uniform after driving so I’m inclined to think it’s not dragging enough to be the problem.

I’ll keep digging. Just wondered if there was something I was missing on this. I’m new to the 80 world. I’ll get it sorted out.

But if the brakes aren’t dragging and the lasers say I’m good on my wheel alignment, the simplicity of the solid axle alignment has me wondering. Thanks guys. I’ll track it down and let you know.

 

[bwiygul]

Yep, alignment "techs" are often one step from the floor sweeper and maybe the same guy?



Case in point. When a proper alignment is done, the steering wheel should be centered when driving, in our case, done with a drag link adjustment. Centered would be 12 o'clock, not 10.

To cause enough drag to pull a 2.5 ton rig off center, a bearing or brake will produce significant heat, like hundreds of degrees. A good tech would go on a highway speed test drive, stop, measure hub/rotor temps, looking for one that is much hotter, like smoking, smelly, hot. If not, what is the point of replacing calipers?

Straight axle is way old school, pretty much dead simple, a good alignement can be done with rudimentary tools and simple knowledge. But see them screwed up, often. They are not very civilized, tend to climb or fall off of road crown, etc, so some pull is normal.

Can't see, haven't driven, don't know the history of the rig, so is it a real pull or the wheel not properly centered? Pull can be caused by bad arm bushings, front or rear axle, bent arms front or rear, etc, but one would expect this would be found in the inspection that should be part of the alignment job?

If the wheel isn’t centered would that be enough to push it? As in will the power steering pump want to run it to center?

When I’m driving and let off the wheel, the wheel basically centers itself which pushes me to the right.

 

[mudgudgeon]

If the wheel isn’t centered would that be enough to push it? As in will the power steering pump want to run it to center?

When I’m driving and let off the wheel, the wheel basically centers itself which pushes me to the right.

I may be wrong, but I don't believe the power steering has any centering function.
Centering is done with correct caster.

As tools said, 80s can have a tendency to follow the road surface.
In Australia, roads typically slope downward to the left side, crowned in the centre. If you have poor caster, loose wheel bearings, worn TRE, worn panhard rod bushes, worn radius arm bushes, anyone of these things can allow the car to be pushed left or right by a slope in the road surface.
It can feel like steering is always pulling.

This can show up if the road surface is rutted, the ruts will push you around a lot. In an 80 where the front end is all good, no play in anything, you can drive with one finger on the wheel.

If you have poor caster, and a lot of play in the font end, they can dart dramatically left and right, particularly under brakes.