Check the lead (small one) going to the starter. That connection can be loose. The spade lug type connector doesn't always make a good lasting connection. It too would move/jiggle if you had been hitting the starter to make it start before.
Probs with starter...I think. (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Cruiser62
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- #22
Regarding the silinoid on the starter. I haven't used the hammer on the "new" one, it's always not worked at an inconvenient time so its just been easier to jump straight from the battery to the starter. Question with the NSS. Is it possible, if that's the problem, to wire straight from the starter to the ignition? I assume the NSS is to keep you from starting in anything besides P and N? is that correct?
Wile E Coyote
Out in the streets, they call it murder!
Correct on the NSS function. I don't recommend bypassing it on a rig w/ auto trans.
I say that per your description the NSS is a place to look only after several other more likely culprits are ruled out.
I say that per your description the NSS is a place to look only after several other more likely culprits are ruled out.
I hit starters with hammers when they don't work, period, not just for bad solenoids...works good to disengage a bendix gear jammed to the flywheel....back on topic, get the battery load tested, then check voltage @ starter solenoid while cranking. The results of those two checks should point you in the direction. NSS shouldn't really be bypassed except for diagnosis
The NSS does get gunked up over time and sometimes it get a little misaligned. Its not too bad of a job to pull it off, open it up and clean it out. You might be surprized how much gunk is in there or how worn the contacts may be. There are two spring loaded contacts so if you do open it up, make sure there no much clutter around.
Just to add to this thread and not start another on the same topic....
As mentioned before, mine does this sort of thing as well. Turn the key at random times and nothing....no sound, no clicking, etc.
NSS tests fine, as does the starter. I'm pretty sure it's the wiring in or around the column.
In the past, when I'd turn the key and get nothing, if I tried again quickly, I'd be stuck for about 30 minutes. Now, I've learned to hang onto the start position for maybe 15 seconds and finally it'll go. After that, it's fine.
To me, this screams that the solenoid isn't getting the proper amount of juice. So, i wonder if the relay is my fix? I'd rather have that then another start button. That just seems to really be too much like an old British motorcycle where every possible electrical system is so bad that you have to rig it up.
Speaking of...why is it that these electrical systems are so weak? Is it that they're 20+ years old, or are they really weak? New headlight harness for lack of power to the lamps, relays on the power windows, relays on the ignition switch, etc....I'm sure I'm missing a few....
m
As mentioned before, mine does this sort of thing as well. Turn the key at random times and nothing....no sound, no clicking, etc.
NSS tests fine, as does the starter. I'm pretty sure it's the wiring in or around the column.
In the past, when I'd turn the key and get nothing, if I tried again quickly, I'd be stuck for about 30 minutes. Now, I've learned to hang onto the start position for maybe 15 seconds and finally it'll go. After that, it's fine.
To me, this screams that the solenoid isn't getting the proper amount of juice. So, i wonder if the relay is my fix? I'd rather have that then another start button. That just seems to really be too much like an old British motorcycle where every possible electrical system is so bad that you have to rig it up.
Speaking of...why is it that these electrical systems are so weak? Is it that they're 20+ years old, or are they really weak? New headlight harness for lack of power to the lamps, relays on the power windows, relays on the ignition switch, etc....I'm sure I'm missing a few....
m
mwood5,
Your problem sounds like the starter is not getting enough juice as you mentioned. Check the big black ground cable that goes from the starter and to the passenger side frame rail. If that checks out tight and clean on the starter end and the frame rail then move on to the battery cables. They should be tight and have lots of contact. My guess is that your situation is caused by 20 year old wiring that needs to be refreshed. If all wires are good then I would look into the copper contacts and copper ring on the plunger. The part numbers are in teh FAQ section.
-Randy
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- #28
Can the plug going into the starter be rewired? Could this be a possible issue. Still have the problem, haven't had a chance to work on it. It still happens but very random. Not sure how to check the NSS or what to look for to see if that's the problem.
My mechanic couldn't tell what the problem would be because while he had it at his shop, it started up without a problem. The rainy season is starting here and it would be nice to not have to keep jumping it from the starter to the battery.
My mechanic couldn't tell what the problem would be because while he had it at his shop, it started up without a problem. The rainy season is starting here and it would be nice to not have to keep jumping it from the starter to the battery.
My plug does not click closed and will sometimes come loose. This makes me have to open the hood and reach down and push the connector back in. I assume that the plug could be rewired if you had a spare one. It would require opening up the housing. That would be a good time to check the copper contacts. Uninstalling the starter and taking in apart is a two hour job at most taking your time and never having done it before. The hardest part will be reaching down to the starter and loosening and removing the one to two bolts and the stud.
You need to inspect the starter. If you don't have time or the know how then your mechanic can do it easily enough but that's extra $$ down the drain on simple labor costs.
You need to inspect the starter. If you don't have time or the know how then your mechanic can do it easily enough but that's extra $$ down the drain on simple labor costs.
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- #30
So, my truck wouldn't start after leaving IHOP for dinner so, I tried tapping the starter with a wrench and it still wouldn't work. I had to jump it straight from the battery/starter. Didn't have my voltmeter with me so I couldn't check to see if it was getting any juice. It would be nice if this would happen while I was at home so that I could use the tools here but....it doesn't.
Going through the other posts, I am putting a list together to look at for possible solutions. The grounds have been looked at and cleaned so I assume that that can be checked off. I would like the quickest and easiest solution to get rid of the probs but not sure if that can happen
Going through the other posts, I am putting a list together to look at for possible solutions. The grounds have been looked at and cleaned so I assume that that can be checked off. I would like the quickest and easiest solution to get rid of the probs but not sure if that can happen
- Thread starter
- #31
well, here I am again...the cruiser has been running great, got in to start it and once again, it wouldn't crank. I changed out the ignition switch and all of the grounds are clean. I figured that I would start to change things out that could help with this problem because after all it is an '89 and things seem to be getting pretty corroded. That's why I changed out the ignition switch. you all have offered out ideas and I appreciate it. it's pretty darn frustrating, want to do a road trip to death valley but it would be nice to have the security of having a rid that will start right up. Help please.
- Thread starter
- #32
Another question...when i turn my rig off, i hear a double click on the passenger side, possibly coming form the fire wall area. It's not really clicky noise but more muffled sounding kurplops (if that makes sense) when I had it towed last time, the driver told me that the relay was bad. Is there a relay on the passenger side? When i look in my Haynes, I can't find anything for relays on that side. Could that also be a culprit for the starting problems?
thanks, ryan
thanks, ryan
Ryan,
I believe that there are at least two relays behind the driver’s side kick panel. I know that one of them is the circuit opening relay. Not sure if I’m right, but from memory the circuit opening relay allows the fuel pump to come on during certain ignition positions. In the accessory position the relay will not open and you can run the radio and lights without running the fuel pump. Turning your ignition switch to the start position triggers the relay which in turn gives power to the fuel pump. Since your truck starts and only occasionally has issues the relay in my opinion is not the problem.
The other clicking noise you may be hearing from the passenger side is your computer (ECU.) I think it makes noise as well but I might be wrong as it is only a circuit board. Not sure if it has any relays in it. Your ECU is working because your car starts; again, not part of your current problem. The simple check to see if your ECU is working is to make sure your check engine light illuminates when your car starts.
Let me know when you are coming to visit Death Valley. Lots of us in the L.A. area like to go throughout the fall and winter seasons.
-Randy
- Thread starter
- #34
Hey randy, thanks for the reply and answers. So far this week it has only not started once which has been an improvment. I get laid off this thurs. so i'll finally be able to spend more time working on this issue. will let you know when we head down.
thanks again, ryan
thanks again, ryan
- Thread starter
- #35
hey ya'll, when I am trying to check the NSS, do i need to be under the rig and listen for a click noise or is this a noise that is pretty distinct from inside. when i turn the key to start, i get nothing but i hear a clicking noise coming from the passenger side. According to the Haynes, it shows that it is pretty basic for checking the NSS. Is it just simply loosening the bolts, lining the groove and then tightening again. It seems like it's easier than it should be so what do i need to do?
thanks, ryan
thanks, ryan
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The click you are hearing is a relay. It is the circuit opening relay that gives power to the fuel pump when you start the car. I have never dealt with the NSS so I can't elaborate on your question above.
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- #37
UUUUGGGGGHHHHHH!!!!! If I wasn't already going bald, I would be pulling my hair out. So, first I'd like to thank FrontRange4x4, Snowakii, Aseif007, Randy88FJ62 and all y'all who have given input into this. Last Friday, pulled off the NSS, cleaned it and put on some dielectric grease. Put it back on and for the last week my rigs been running great. Starting up every time. Took my daughter to school this morning without a problem, got home left the doors open while installing a new console (approx. 2 hrs) and afterwards, went to start it and nothing. The usual lights came on but nothing would turn over. Could it be possible that the battery could be bad? I plan on taking it in to get it looked at, it's about 2 or 3 yrs old. Ignition switch is new. Thanks for more input.
I had the same symptoms and it drove me nuts. Tried everything, like you, to no prevail. Finally I replaced the battery and it has been great ever since, so dont rule out the battery.
What shape are your battery cables in? You said you have cleaned the terminals etc. But what about the actual cable-to-terminal connection? Is it orignal or one of those universal type of replacements? If the latter, remove the terminal and clean the wire and terminal.. or better yet replace.
As a check to make sure the NSS switch is mounted correctly; do you have back-up lichts and can you start it in neutral? the band for neutral start is pretty narrow so if that is correct the park position is likely good.
When it doesn't start now, does the volt meter still show a reading when you turn the ignition to start? If it does, all there is power to the starter.. just not enough which would still implicate a poor conection somewhere in the high-amp circuit.. battry and ground. ... or the cables themselves.
Sorry to hear you have extra time on your hands.
As a check to make sure the NSS switch is mounted correctly; do you have back-up lichts and can you start it in neutral? the band for neutral start is pretty narrow so if that is correct the park position is likely good.
When it doesn't start now, does the volt meter still show a reading when you turn the ignition to start? If it does, all there is power to the starter.. just not enough which would still implicate a poor conection somewhere in the high-amp circuit.. battry and ground. ... or the cables themselves.
Sorry to hear you have extra time on your hands.
